Help Evil Sarcoid!

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PercyBrown

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We have a lovely connemara mare who came to us with extensive sarcoids under her tail(the worst vet has ever seen) We have got these to a controlable level with banding,sarcx,and cut and heal cream. But now a big one the size of a billiard ball has erupted on the front of her hind fetlock, its too flat to get a band round and she constantly knocks it when she gets up and down so it bleeds often.
We feel the sarcoids are to extensive for liverpool cream and so would like to just be able to control it,ant ideas on how we could protect it from getting knocked and any other treatment options . At the moment we are thinking give her the Summer then make THAT horrible decision!:(:(:(
 
camrosa camrosa camrosa, it does exactly what it says on the tin, IF you follow the instructions to the letter! Do not PTS because you haven't tried it!
 
No not Camrosa, it can cause horrendous results. I beleive if you read the detailed blurb that comes with it it even says not for sarcoids. When Prof Knottenbelt gives his sarcoid lecture to students he shows them pics of "after" camrosa treatment. Very grim viewing. Talk to your Vet again, get advice from Liverpool. They don't always recommend their own cream so don't worry they will give genuine advice. You can even email yourself. Just don't mess with them.
TBH sounds like you have been doing a good job so far with a horrid condition - I know that dread feeling when you find a fast growing one in a particularly bad location. Back of fetlock sounds a bit grim. Best of luck.
 
How old is she and if it's not too late and prolonging her misery, think about really boosting and supporting her immune system AFTER consulting your vet throughly on the matter.

You are right, sarcoids are horrible. Good luck.
 
You need to decide this with your vet and Prof Knottenbelt from liverpool. Sarcoids are evil things and you really need the experts to help with it. What ever you do please don't be tempted to try any over the counter creams without your vets say so on it.
I hope all comes right.
My mare had an awful looking sarcoid on the side of her head which kept splitting and weeping. Liverpool cream wasn't suitable due to the location of it so she had cisplatin injections into it. Looked horrible for another couple of mouths, but quite incredibly it has totally gone! Perhaps worth chatting about other options with your vet?
 
NOT NOT NOT NOT camrosa!!!! It is a caustic compound and the info on the leaflet that comes with it (but you can only access to read after you've bought the bloody stuff) specifically says NOT for true sarcoids. Beware of self medicating any true sarcoid. Separating a true sarcoid from a warty lump/patch is almost impossible but Thuja cream obeys the must-do self-help law: do no harm. Products such as tea tree/aloe vera that state they can help regenerate new skin you need to avoid like the plague. Sarcoids are a form of skin cancer and the last thing you want to do with any cancer is encourage growth. Any attempt at surgical intervention or biopsy of a suspicious lump can cause a true sarcoid to become aggressive. Flies have been implicated in the spread of true sarcoids since they walk on the sore area, then move to another scratch/etc area and walk the sarcoid into the new area. It's possible that this may carry the sarcoid to other horses but as far as I know this isn't proven yet. Your absolute best bet is 1) visit Prof Knottenbelt's definitive guide to sarcoids where you will learn that the only predictable thing about sarcoids is their unpredictability and 2) talk to your vets about a referral to a specialist centre. Good luck.
 
My horse had 1 sarcoid,it was stubborn and I used BLOOD ROOT CREAm HOWEVER A YEAR LATER,EVEN THO IT WENT DOWN SOME i ENDED UP WITH LIVERPOOL CREAM TREATMENT,NOW ITS gone AND never COME BACK!!! (touch wood).
You need to talk to your vet about treatment.
 
Ditto the above!

Get referred to Liverpool! I have seen 40+ sarcoids disappear with the Liverpool cream.

DO NOT USE CAMROSA!!!! It does what it says on the TIN alright! Burns off layers of skin!!!
 
Thankyou everyone for the replies. I will definately have the vet out again before we make any big decisions. The Mare is 17 this year so hard as it may seem I will have to weigh up time and likely costs.
Does anyone have anysuggestions how we could cover/dry it up until treatment takes place to stop flies and to stop it from constantly bleeding -it on the front of her hind fetlock.
 
PercyBrown said:
Thankyou everyone for the replies. I will definately have the vet out again before we make any big decisions. The Mare is 17 this year so hard as it may seem I will have to weigh up time and likely costs.
Does anyone have anysuggestions how we could cover/dry it up until treatment takes place to stop flies and to stop it from constantly bleeding -it on the front of her hind fetlock.
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I'm sorry, I know very little about sarcoids, can you not bandage it to cover it for the time being? I've only seen one before and it was quite benign looking, although I have briefly googled and some look awful, I sympathise with you :( Deffo go back to your vet, also explain how fed up you're feeling, it's good to talk xx
 
Big No to Camrosa. As above get your vet to contact Derek Knottenbelt at Liverpool. He won't treat for the sake of it, but he is the best one to give advice.
 
Her original sarcoids were looked at by liverpool via photographs and it was them that said banding needed to be done first to reduce them before liverpool cream. Has anyone used Liverpool cream and got a rough idea of costs involved I know its 5 days of vet treatment
 
PercyBrown said:
Her original sarcoids were looked at by liverpool via photographs and it was them that said banding needed to be done first to reduce them before liverpool cream. Has anyone used Liverpool cream and got a rough idea of costs involved I know its 5 days of vet treatment
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It is entirely down to the individual case of each horse I'm afraid - I tried scoping out how much it would be after I called my vet out as I wanted to prepare myself for the shock!

With Bailey, for example, his sarcoid is on the base of his left ear - problematic area! I was given an estimate of between £450 - £750. That was for the call out for 5 vet visits in 10 days, the cream itself, bute, examination, and any sedation. The amount it ended up being would depend on whether he needed sedating every time the cream was to be applied and how much of it he needed.

At the moment, Bailey's ear is completely urgh as the evil thing is about to fall off! Bailey was only sedated on the first visit and they didn't have a problem applying the cream on any other occasion. However, I had given them full rein to sedate him if they believed it necessary because of its location - he was due to be backed before we encountered this and as the sarcoid can become painful after treatment, we didn't want him becoming earshy and then having issues trying to get bridles over his ears later on.

Just remember as well, that price also depends on the strength of the cream that is required to treat the sarcoid. However, if you don't use all of the cream up, your vets keep it for you for a year so it can be reused should anymore appear.

As someone else said, give her something to perk up her immune system, a friend recommended thuja to me and I'm giving B this, as well as buying a fly sheet to try and prevent the spread by flies - maybe slightly OTT but if you knew how many medical issues I have been through with him, you wouwld understand my paranoia!!!

Hope it gets sorted, they really are evil b*ggers.
 
I work for a veterinary practice and every so often, we hire a lazer and have a clinic where owners bring in their horses to have the sarcoid effectively cauterised with lazer treatment. So far, I think its been very successful. Maybe see if your vets could hire one. I'm not sure how much it costs but I think insurance usually covers the treatment.
 
brighteyes said:
How old is she and if it's not too late and prolonging her misery, think about really boosting and supporting her immune system AFTER consulting your vet throughly on the matter.
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Everyone always talks about 'boosting the immune system' for sarcoids! WHY??

I own a horse which - 8 years ago - Prof K wanted to put down on welfare grounds - the sarcoids were FAR too extensive for treatment by any conventional methods (I didn't own him at the time - but I saw them just before he went to Liverpool and predicted that Prof K. WOULD want him PTS!)

Insurance company wouldn't agree - so Prof. K. treated him with an experiemental treatment that was based on knocking OUT his immune system completely with immuno-suppressant drugs! It WAS a dangerous treatment of last resort - with a 50% success rate. Where Jester was concerned, it was 100% successful - and he's not had a sarcoid since.

What that suggests to me (and I didn't get the chance to discuss it with Prof. K. as the horse wasn't mine at the time) that extensive sarcoids MIGHT be related to the immune system working incorrectly in the face of sarcoids. So boosting it might be contra-indicated.
 
I have had success with Thuja tablets. They are very cheap to buy (from a normal chemists, or Ainsworths homeopathic pharmacy) and they may just work if fed with feed over a period of a few weeks. Definitely worth a go if you are coming to the end of the road. If you google thuja and sarcoids I hope you will be pleasantly surprised.
 
Some vets now believe sarcoids are a virus and not cancer hence the immune boosting suggestions. My horse had 3 sarcoids that came up on his sheath and back legs. The vet banded and Liverpool creamed them for 5 visits. Due to the location the cream was rubbed all over his back legs, the whole area was raw and painful it took 20 mins for him to walk out to the field as he was in so much pain. The sarcoids did shrivel and fall off BUT the following year hundreds of sarcoids popped up over the whole area that had been raw flesh. A year later they were not covered by insurance so I couldn't have them treated. Every year more pop up but so far none have appeared on the saddle/bridle area but I know when they do it will be time to pts. I firmly believe the aggressive.spread was caused by the Liverpool cream and treatment!
 
horsegirl said:
And I firmly believe that the aggressive spread was largely fly related - not helped by cack-handed application of Liverpool cream! No WAY should Liverpool cream used on sarcoids on the sheath - or even on the back legs - end up effectively blistering the hind legs! That would have attracted every stable fly in a 100 foot radius - fly bites sarcoid, then bites horse - another sarcoid.

For this very reason, sarcoids are best treated in winter - while small. If they HAVE to be treated in fly season then you need to take precautions to prevent fly attention! Liverpool cream cannot and does not cause sarcoids to spread! It is VERY effective in the majority of cases!
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Well it is strange that the sarcoids are all in the area that was raw, if it was flies surely they would hVe spread to other horses or would be on other parts of the horse?
 
horsegirl said:
Well it is strange that the sarcoids are all in the area that was raw, if it was flies surely they would hVe spread to other horses or would be on other parts of the horse?
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Not at ALL strange - but inevitable! Where would a fly choose to bite - a nice bit of healthy coat - or a raw bloody mess?? There is a LOT about sarcoids we don't know - but we know a lot about flies!! There is no doubt in MY mind that some horses are more susceptible to sarcoids than others - but I'd bet if there'd been a horse with a wound close to your horse, he would almost certainly have ended up with a sarcoid in the area close to or ON the wound site!

I've seen sarcoids spread - and I now treat ANY sarcoid immediately it appears - and institute fly control measures around the horse in question!
 
Rueysmum said:
I have had success with Thuja tablets. They are very cheap to buy (from a normal chemists, or Ainsworths homeopathic pharmacy) and they may just work if fed with feed over a period of a few weeks. Definitely worth a go if you are coming to the end of the road. If you google thuja and sarcoids I hope you will be pleasantly surprised.
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Although it is probably coincidence, I too had sarcoids disappear after giving thuja tablets and leaving well alone. The sarcoids in question were round flat ones, smooth and about the size of a 10p and a 5p.
 
You wont believe me but I promise Zinc and Castor oil cream twice daily and buy some zinc tablets, crush 3 or 4 up and pop them in her feed. I promise this works and you can buy both from Boots.
 
Wagtail said:
Zinc in the feed and castor oil cream on the sarcoid?
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Yup....My old horse had one on his belly, not in an awkward place or anything but every now an dthen the 'top' of it would get knocked off and it would get angry and bleed. I was just considering getting the vet out when I read in Central Horse News an article on sarcoids and old methods of treating them. Zinc and Castor oil cream on the sarcoid and the zinc tablets in the feed. In two weeks the sarcoid had gone. I kept treating the place with the cream for another two weeks and eventually new skin grew and all that was left was a tiny bald patch where it had been....
 
Re Thuja etc - ring Crossgates Farm. http://www.crossgatesfarm.co.uk/animal/horse
They are flipping brilliant. I treated a large sarcoid on my mare's chest under their direction. It was a bit nail-biting because the treatment took a long time to work, but eventually this huge sarcoid just dropped off, and she just has a little scar there now. During the treatment another smaller one came up on her inside thigh, but that just dropped off of it's own accord, possibly because of the remedies she was having.
If you're thinking that you may be getting to the end of the line with this horse, what have you got to lose? The holistic treatments aren't expensive and work surprisingly well.
 
I am with Tinypony.... The main reason I went down the zinc and caster oil treatment was price and that fact that I doubted that it would cause any harm if it did not work. Also had heard many horror stories about the medicated approaches mentioned above....
 
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