Help, Farrier did a bosh job, what to do?!

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niko

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I have a lovely ex racer that I have had for a year now. He has ‘typical’ tb feet, a broken back pastern axis and my usual farrier always said he wasn’t that bad, but would have put side clips on the front.
Unfortunately my farrier was injured and through recommendation used another.
To make this easier I will call them farrier A & B.
Farrier A came to shoe and I said that he always wore sideclips and he said he didn’t need them but to keep his heels long for support. So he just put on a normal shoe. To look at him he didn’t look off but he felt 1-2/ 10ths lame to me when ridden and shorter in his strides.
I stopped riding him as he didn’t feel like his normal self and didn’t want to make anything worse. I rang the farrier on a number of occasions inside a week to see if he would come out or offer an explanation (the horse has never had a problem being footy after showing). After one ride in the field I took a picture of his foot. His heel bulbs looked swollen and generally didn’t look right.
I sent the picture to farrier A who advised that it was abscessing and he would need these antibiotics and to poultice it. After a day and gut feeling I looked at his feet again. His heel bulbs had gone back to normal and nothing looked like it was abscessing. By this stage I had had enough and took him to my vet.
My vet was far from amused at his shoeing and after his curse words said ‘they would never pass their farrier exams with that shoeing that’s for sure’.
We trotted him in a circle and my word he was sore, the vet said he didn’t have a leg to stand on. Put him in the sand school and he was as sound as a pound ‘floating’ around. So my vet advised that he needed a ‘decent’ shoeing and pair of shoes and if still not right would investigate further but he thinks its in his foot.
Home I trundled with my poor boy and asked my old injured farrier for someone he recommended.
I rang farrier A that shod him and said what the vet had diagnosed and he said ‘vets will always blame the farrier if they can’t find anything wrong’. Gobsmacked is an understatement.
Farrier B arrived the next day and evaluated his feet, watched him trot up and then gave his diagnoses. The old farrier had made a bosh job, left his toe too long, let his heels collapse and wait for it, had a hunter plate on his off fore, had a racing plate on his near fore, neither of which were the correct size!!!! He also had formed a stress crack which I initially had thought was from the dry weather.
Apart from being livid I felt so miserable that the honesty of this gentle horse had meant that he would go on regardless if he was hurting or not.
The farrier recommended that we take his feet back as much as possible and leave the shoes off for 2 weeks to a month and let them recover. So after discussion and questioning this poor man to every inch of his training, I agreed.
The poor horse doesn’t know if he is blown up or stuffed, hurting with shoes, now tender without.
Luckily the fields are quite soft and still out 24/7 and he’s happy to move about in the field. He has no stony lanes to negotiate to his stable but doesn’t like walking across the concrete yard.
So if you are still with me, I have a few questions.
I was thinking of getting a pair of hoof boots to keep him working, they are the guts of £100 and if I did purchase them, I would maybe let his shoes be off abit longer to let them recover. What are your thoughts, purchase or not?
Where do I stand with farrier A make a hash of his feet, have I any rights? He caused me to miss out on some eventing and also foot a vet bill.

Muesli and skimmed milk if you made it this far.
 
I know people who use those boots and speak highly of them.

My horse once had a sand crack which the vet cut out so it wouldn't crack further and said to feed equipalizone and I could ride as it wasn't causing injury but would stop it hurting when I did.

As you say typical tb feet then I would invest because if he doesn't like them they shouldn't be too hard to sell but I certainly wouldn't want to ride him barefoot.
 
When I had to change Farrier, the new one left my mare with long toes and under-run heels (also bigger shoes due to the flare) and I had to sack him and get another new Farrier. It was awful and I'm so sorry that you are having such an awful time.

The one thing that stands out to me in your post is the 'typical TB feet' comment. Take this opportunity to grow out the 'TB feet' and grow in hoof capsules with good quality horn and at a better angle. You will need to overhaul your horse's diet and stimulate the growth by working him on surfaces that he is comfortable on (boots may be very helpful to start with). Contrary to popular belief, tarmac is great for unshod/BF hooves, plus TB's can have super hooves! :)

I did the above (boots not needed in my case) and I've never needed to re-shoe, but I don't do anything which requires studs.

Look in the vet&hoof section of this forum as there is plenty of information there. Also Lucy Priory's blog and the Rockley Farm blog are good reading, showing how hooves can change shape and get far healthier as you grow them out.
 
Faracat said:
When I had to change Farrier, the new one left my mare with long toes and under-run heels (also bigger shoes due to the flare) and I had to sack him and get another new Farrier. It was awful and I'm so sorry that you are having such an awful time.

The one thing that stands out to me in your post is the 'typical TB feet' comment. Take this opportunity to grow out the 'TB feet' and grow in hoof capsules with good quality horn and at a better angle. You will need to overhaul your horse's diet and stimulate the growth by working him on surfaces that he is comfortable on (boots may be very helpful to start with). Contrary to popular belief, tarmac is great for unshod/BF hooves, plus TB's can have super hooves! :)

I did the above (boots not needed in my case) and I've never needed to re-shoe, but I don't do anything which requires studs.

Look in the vet&hoof section of this forum as there is plenty of information there. Also Lucy Priory's blog and the Rockley Farm blog are good reading, showing how hooves can change shape and get far healthier as you grow them out.
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all of this :)

just as further inspiration, my ex racer is competing PSG, schooling GP, barefoot, and my sis (NMT on here) horse is competing elem, about to make his medium debut, and is schooling well towards PSG, also barefoot.

both have hard little pony feet, great heels and *normal* length toes.

it can be done :)

is he comfy in the school? if so i would keep him barefoot for now, use boots initially on the areas that make him sore, and as he gets better try and hand walk on the tarmac each day, building up minute by minute until you can do short roadwork hacks instead.
 
I'd get a pair of cavallos and get him some easycare medium comfort pads if you want to hack out (and if he's foot sore on concrete as the boot without a pad will probably just feel like concrete to him)
My typical TB has gone barefoot, he's fine in the school without boots but needs boots for hacking/stones as he's very tender.

Even if you're getting the shoes back on they will come in handy if you were to lose a shoe :-)
 
Thank you all for your inspiration and words of encouragement. Ideally I would love to keep him barefoot to reduce the concussion on his legs and to help his feet.
Surely if my farrier is advising that keeping the shoes off him to help his feet heal speaks volumes about how bad shoes can be for their feet?!
As I have been brought up with the mentality that all horses competing need shoes, to go barefoot is much stranger and really should be the norm!
The farrier said he has a good sole and only after a few days I can see the changes already in his feet. I am applying hoof hardener most days when I bring him in to toughen them up further.
With all your advice I bit the bullet and purchased a pair of equine fusion boots. I feel that at the moment with the way he looks at the concrete/tarmac and gingerly walks across it, he may take a bit longer to transition!
Do you hack most of the horses barefoot on the roads? I would have a 15min hack to and from the sandschool that I use and this is the reason I would need boots at the beginning?
Faracat & Prince33Sp4rkle your horses that you have made barefoot can you please advice if they are turned out most of the time in a field (mostly grass) & also what do you feed for performance?
He is quite a laid back tb (I feed oats at the bucket load for some ‘spark’, even the its minimal!!)
I have a huge concrete yard that is very smooth and flat, he has to walk across 10metres to get to his stable, should I hand walk a minute at a time and increase the time to help his feet? Oh goodness I am sorry for all the questions, its such a minefield of information to get around.
 
niko said:
He is quite a laid back tb (I feed oats at the bucket load for some ‘spark’, even the its minimal!!)
I have a huge concrete yard that is very smooth and flat, he has to walk across 10metres to get to his stable, should I hand walk a minute at a time and increase the time to help his feet? Oh goodness I am sorry for all the questions, its such a minefield of information to get around.
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He sounds very much like mine! Maybe i should get some oats down mine as he's a lazy bxgger! He lives out all summer (well as much as possible) and has been barefoot about 8 weeks now and he's definitely getting better. I can see a new angle starting to grow in! If you want to see any of his pics PM me i'll link you to my PB account.

I've not done tarmac unbooted yet as I have to go down a couple of stony lanes to get to proper roads, and at 16.3hh I don't want to be jumping on and off it's so hard to get on from the ground! My lad is fine in the field without hoof protection. It would be useful to have a look at his diet as well and eliminate as much sugar as possible - there are loads of knowledgeable people on here that can advise you on diet.
 
"With all your advice I bit the bullet and purchased a pair of equine fusion boots. I feel that at the moment with the way he looks at the concrete/tarmac and gingerly walks across it, he may take a bit longer to transition!
Do you hack most of the horses barefoot on the roads? I would have a 15min hack to and from the sandschool that I use and this is the reason I would need boots at the beginning?" Quote


I bought the Equine Fusion for my Arab back in May, for his front feet, his back shoes were taken off in January and he coped without boots for this, however the boots and pads have been wonderful for his front feet and he strides out across any surface with them on. Including roads, stony farm tracks open fell and stubble fields (with stones). I couldn't recommend them highly enough.

I'll let other more experienced reply on diet, but have changed my boys diets according the the advice on here and Oberon's Barefoot 101, if you contact her I am sure she'll pm a couple of documents she's written up that are really helpful.

The increased work on the concrete is recommended, subject to how sore he is.

Good luck!
 
we had it quite easy as ours literally walked out shoes, across the gravel yard and never looked back, they both hack without boots happily :)

ours are out 6.30am-3pm on dairy pasture so very rich grass.

CS is a lazy swine so eats winergy high energy and havens slobbermash (which is grain and linseed based), Fis is a hyperactive poor doer so east winergy condition and linseed.

so they both eat a lot of grass and a very *commercial* diet. I think TBH the more you work them the more you can *get way with* in terms of diet. Bruce our retired boy is on restricted grass (but still dairy grass) and a small amount of hard feed, plus soaked hay as he is a fatty-when he was doing NO work his feet went a bit splat, stretching in white line,some cracking.
on same diet and just 4 x walk/trot hacks a week (very gentle, mainly walking) his feet have changed completely, white lined tightened and cracks closed back up.

its work as much as diet IMO.

i think hand walking 1 min at a time and increasing as he gets more comfy is a great idea. if you can work him in a soft school too that will help stimulate the sole as well :)
 
because of the nature of the work/surface (mainly soft surface so sole support but no wall wear, and highly collected), the feet tend toward a high heel shaped with an awful lot of depth/concavity which is great to a certain degree but in particular CS would grow OVER high heels if not kept in check.
generally they have excellent white line and sole exfoliation but do need the heel height reducing (we are talking mm here) on each trim and then just the bevel re doing.

they get an EP trim every 5 weeks, when the grass flushes i have to touch up weekly in between, but when grass growth is minimal they go the full 5 weeks easily and then only need a very light trim.

if they did a bit more roadwork i think they would be very nearly self trimming, esp CS and Bruce. Fig hasnt been BF for quite so long so still needs some balancing and a stronger bevel on his front feet.

if my back wasnt so awful i could do alternate trims, ie EP does one, then i do the next so would only get an EP trim every 10 weeks.
i trimmed the shetlands feet completely on my own for 3 years, but he was very obliging and would go 10-12 weeks between trims, the big boys are just too heavy for me to keep lifting them up and moving them round, even doing as much as i can on stands.

im pretty confident with my trimming but do like the EP to see them regularly as she has SO much more knowledge than me in the very tiny nuances :)

ETA that because bruce does NO arena work, only hacking, his heel/toe is very good, he just needs a little bit of excess sole/bar removing normally and a tidy up.
 
niko said:
Faracat & Prince33Sp4rkle your horses that you have made barefoot can you please advice if they are turned out most of the time in a field (mostly grass) & also what do you feed for performance?
He is quite a laid back tb (I feed oats at the bucket load for some ‘spark’, even the its minimal!!)
I have a huge concrete yard that is very smooth and flat, he has to walk across 10metres to get to his stable, should I hand walk a minute at a time and increase the time to help his feet? Oh goodness I am sorry for all the questions, its such a minefield of information to get around.
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My horses are out 24/7 but I strip graze and supplement with hay if needed. My chestnut mare (the one who was shod) doesn't get fizzy due to her feed, but rather how fit she is. The key is low sugar (no molasses) and low starch, but high in fibre. Linseed is really good when a little extra is needed.

I slowly built my mare's work up by leading her out in-hand a little bit, then increased the distances slowly until she could tackle a short ride ridden, then increased the distances again. I always stuck to surfaces that she was happy on and to start with let her avoid stones by walking on the verge. your concrete yard is a good starting point, but hopefully you can move onto walking on the roads (smooth tarmac was always OK for my mare).
 
I'm a newbie to shoes off too on my tb! Decided to have his shoes taken off in June because he kept pulling them off, wasn't in work at the time and he wasn't too bad. Moved yards 3 weeks ago and he went footy after 2 days (much better grass!) but that settled and he's worked 5 days a week, in sand school and hacking on roads and his feet look better already! However I would keep an eye out for thrush, never had a sign of it til the shoes came off - he's got it pretty bad in one front foot :/
Good luck with it!
 
probably coincidence, generally there are less likely to get thrush as the foot contracts/ expands and pushes the dirt out, rather than it collecting in the false concavity provided by the shoe rim.

mine get soles/frogs sprayed with apple cider vinegar/water and tea tree oil mix x 3 per week and have zero thrush issues so maybe try that?
 
I am sorry you and your horse have gone through that .
You can report the farrier to the farrier council if the vet and the other farrier will support you the council should investigate .
 
It is the first and bounden duty of any new farrier to diss the previous farrier to the heavens. Was your horse OK (i.e. not lame) with the first farrier? And how long did you use him/her?
 
Ooh thanks PS will try that!
I'm trying to treat it with iodine - got some peroxide from work today and put a bit on one foot but then we had other dramas so didn't get the chance to carry on!
 
Oats are fine for a barefoot horse. My poor doing barefoot horse gets a stubbs scoop of whole oats a day atm.

I use a farrier, but a pro barefoot one. She's been bare a year and we still use boots for most hacking but mainly due to the stoney track we have to negotiate to get anywhere.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
just needs a little bit of excess sole/bar removing normally and a tidy up.
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My own experience and that of pro trimmers I rate is that it would be a very rare situation where you trim sole on a normal horse. Regarding trimming bars, the sole is produced from the bars and migrates forwards. Trimming bars, unless they are pressing on the ground and causing bruising, is therefore likely to be counter-productive to thick sole production.

Extended bars, up to the point of the frog, or even right around it, are, in my experience, temporary bracing for a foot not strong enough to do the work required of it without help. It will disappear when the foot strengthens. Removing it before the foot sheds it naturally is therefore usually counter-productive.

You can see cases of this bar production and shedding on rockleyfarm.blogspot.com
 
cptrayes said:
My own experience and that of pro trimmers I rate is that it would be a very rare situation where you trim sole on a normal horse. Regarding trimming bars, the sole is produced from the bars and migrates forwards. Trimming bars, unless they are pressing on the ground and causing bruising, is therefore likely to be counter-productive to thick sole production.

Extended bars, up to the point of the frog, or even right around it, are, in my experience, temporary bracing for a foot not strong enough to do the work required of it without help. It will disappear when the foot strengthens. Removing it before the foot sheds it naturally is therefore usually counter-productive.

You can see cases of this bar production and shedding on rockleyfarm.blogspot.com
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i didnt ask for input on MY horses feet.
we have 3 very sound horses in varying levels of work and am very happy with the way they are trimmed, i neither need or wanted your *advice*.

for the record and for OP benefit, the excess sole and bar is the already exfoliating stuff that just needs a gentle push to come away, no one is carving my horses sole or bar out!
 
Dear Jess thank you for supplying me with those links and I would definitely like to see his feet after 8 months, Im excited as to what mine could be after a few months!
Bramble 74 I am so glad to hear that your arab took to his so quickly and they have been beneficial, I hope that they will come in as useful for mine and he take to them as I am afraid he will think they are oversized wellingtons!
Prince33Sp4rkle that is great to hear that you feed a ‘commercial’ diet (only great as it seems the most ‘convenient’ method for most horse owners like me!)
As even though he is turned out 24/7, in winter he generally only gets oats, a balancer and lots of haylage. He would be ridden most days in winter, does this sound about right?
I don’t seem to have many trimmers around my neck of the woods so it was farrier B that tidied his feet up. I had sent some pictures to an equine podiatrist who commented that they looked good and I had enquired about a trimmer.
Her advice was that a good farrier (say no more) can do the same job, the difference is that you are paying for a ‘consultation’ with a trimmer who looks at the overall picture, the horse, the environment, diet etc and advises a plan accordingly.
As I am unsure of this myself as I have not experienced it I am unsure if this advice is correct.
I never thought about the farrier council that is a very good idea, I wonder if they will do it without mentioning names?
Courtez I understand what farriers are like, everyone else’s work is terrible compared to theirs. This farrier though was reluctant to say anything to slander farrier A & I respect him for that. It was what he did say and how can he not when he is pulling two different shoes and sizes off each foot.
Farrier A I had been using for about 7 years, and the horse never had a lame step.
 
niko said:
Dear Jess thank you for supplying me with those links and I would definitely like to see his feet after 8 months, Im excited as to what mine could be after a few months!
Bramble 74 I am so glad to hear that your arab took to his so quickly and they have been beneficial, I hope that they will come in as useful for mine and he take to them as I am afraid he will think they are oversized wellingtons!
Prince33Sp4rkle that is great to hear that you feed a ‘commercial’ diet (only great as it seems the most ‘convenient’ method for most horse owners like me!)
As even though he is turned out 24/7, in winter he generally only gets oats, a balancer and lots of haylage. He would be ridden most days in winter, does this sound about right?
I don’t seem to have many trimmers around my neck of the woods so it was farrier B that tidied his feet up. I had sent some pictures to an equine podiatrist who commented that they looked good and I had enquired about a trimmer.
Her advice was that a good farrier (say no more) can do the same job, the difference is that you are paying for a ‘consultation’ with a trimmer who looks at the overall picture, the horse, the environment, diet etc and advises a plan accordingly.
As I am unsure of this myself as I have not experienced it I am unsure if this advice is correct.
I never thought about the farrier council that is a very good idea, I wonder if they will do it without mentioning names?
Courtez I understand what farriers are like, everyone else’s work is terrible compared to theirs. This farrier though was reluctant to say anything to slander farrier A & I respect him for that. It was what he did say and how can he not when he is pulling two different shoes and sizes off each foot.
Farrier A I had been using for about 7 years, and the horse never had a lame step.
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which balancer? i only ask because the topspec one is reputed not to agree with barefoot horses, you may be better off with one of the foreage plus ones. the haylage and oats are fine though :)

totally agree with what trimmer said, i am happy to pay a bit more for an EP trim as we discuss work load, diet etc too ,not just feet. If your farrier is very switched on and open minded to those things too, then stick with him :)
 
I use baileys stud balancer for all of mine as it can be used for all, never knew that about topspec.
Thank you for all your assistance i feel more relieved to leave him barefoot now with all this help. I will let you know are progress and see if i can get a picture of him in his boots!
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
for the record and for OP benefit, the excess sole and bar is the already exfoliating stuff that just needs a gentle push to come away, no one is carving my horses sole or bar out!
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I'm glad that you have added this. I wrote my comment because it was very easy for someone less experienced to read your original post as meaning that it was routine to trim sole and bars which are not naturally shedding.

I believe that there is consensus that routine sole trimming is detrimental, but the discussion amongst professionals about bar trimming is on going. I favour Bob Bowker's position on this, myself, that routine trimming of bars is detrimental to thick sole production.
 
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cptrayes said:
I'm glad that you have added this. I wrote my comment because it was very easy for someone less experienced to read your original post as meaning that it was routine to trim sole and bars which are not naturally shedding.

I believe that there is consensus that routine sole trimming is detrimental, but the discussion amongst professionals about bar trimming is on going. I favour Bob Bowker's position on this, myself, that routine trimming of bars is detrimental to thick sole production.
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And despite our differences on almost everything else....I agree re bars and have never seen routine trimming yield long term improvement :)
 
As promised I thought I would give an update on my newly barefoot horse. Its been just over a week and I am actually astounded with the progress that has been made.
He was quite feely and was reluctant to walk up and down the concrete lane to his stable. He is now galloping up and down (as I shut my eyes!!) And his antics in the field leave a lot to be desired!! I cannot believe the transformation&if I can I will keep him barefoot as much as possible.
The saga is really with hoof boots. I got a pair of the equine fusions in a size 14 & there is so much room. He could do with a 12. So he's still unrideable on roads until I can source a pair&can't do that until I sell the other pair, nothings ever straight forward.
I did ride him the 50m from the field I was riding in to our yard&he didn't seem too bothered by it, his feet look so tough!! The frog really isn't as near as tender as what it was before & he really is full of it. Wonderful to see. Just shows how much the shoes were causing issues.
 
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