HELP!! Farrier dropped bombshell yesterday!! Long sorry....

To put a heart bar on the horse it should be xrayed first, so the farrier should be working with the vet either there or having been out prior to shoeing.

Speak to your vet, get xrays done and ask vet either to speak to your farrier to decide on a shoeing plan, or ask vet to recommend a farrier for you to use.
 
As already said, I'd definitely get your vet and/or another farrier out to have a look.

My warmblood didn't have the best feet when I got him, heels bit low and not the quickest growing but other than that, sound. I'm very lucky in that my farrier is brilliant and after 3 shoeings (at 6 week intervals) his feet were on the way to being better and 2 years on, they're fine; we've lost one shoe in that time too!

Personally, I'd be a bit concerned that your farrier is changing his plan of action to correct the alleged problem(s) as if he's changing his mind. As you say, it does seem a bit extreme!

Best of luck, hope you get it all sorted soon :)
 
Definately get a second opinion, and ask your farrier for all the information about why he is shoing this way.

Sorry but don't agree with the vet that warmbloods often have uneven feet - any breed can have this if there is more weight being carried over a particular foot. After a period of lameness you will often find that the opposite foot has spread as it's been carrying a bigger load.

I'd be looking at the smaller foot to find out why the horse is putting his weight on the other. I would also be looking higher up too - a chiro would be a good idea. Back soreness can lead to more loading on one foot than the other. I do it myself, back injury means I have more weight on my left foot, left ankle swells and I wear out the soles on the left shoe faster.
 
Get a lameness work up done to find out if he is truely lame or if you're farrier has just messed up his feet.

Then I'd have his shoes off for 6months to recover and grow the foot and balance he needs. I've seen a lot of remedial shoeing and have very little faith in it - it takes for ever to work, if it does, and often doesn't solve the problem. The farrier has to be bloody good and has to have pinpointed the exact cause of the problem to be able to fix it correctly. Barefoot the horse does it itself.

If he's restricted to walk work only then have him barefoot (with boots to begin with) until he's grown a new foot then think about shoeing him again if needs be.

As for all warmbloods being lame - that's bollox. They are often managed incorrectly (too much of the wrong kind of food, not enough turn out, shod too early with no time out of shoes over the winter, too high a level of work and often poor farriers) but they can have lovely feet like any other horse!
 
Call your vet and ask them who they use for remedial shoeing - personally I would cut out the middle man if you know what I mean ....
 
mcnaughty said:
Call your vet and ask them who they use for remedial shoeing - personally I would cut out the middle man if you know what I mean ....
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Yep - that would be my advice! Fortunately for me, my farrier is THE farrier my vet uses for all remedial work after vet has decided what the problem is - and vet and farrier discuss the best remedy!!

Lots of horses have uneven feet (not just WBs) for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes they're born with them (the vast majority of people have one foot slightly bigger than the other) - and sometimes it's bad trimming, lack of trimmingm, back problems or lameness/developmental problems.

I've seen a lot of remedial shoeing and have very little faith in it - it takes for ever to work, if it does, and often doesn't solve the problem.
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I'd respectfully suggest you haven't seen GOOD remedial shoeing then! I have had several horses which my farrier has 'fixed' with one shoeing (i.e. their movement was noticeably better the day after shoeing - obviously a permanent 'fix' takes longer as the foot has to grow to where it should be.)
 
JanetGeorge said:
I'd respectfully suggest you haven't seen GOOD remedial shoeing then! I have had several horses which my farrier has 'fixed' with one shoeing (i.e. their movement was noticeably better the day after shoeing - obviously a permanent 'fix' takes longer as the foot has to grow to where it should be.)
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I have seen more remedial shoeing (good and bad!) than you would beleive ;)

A lot of what many class as 'remedial' is in fact just the 'correct' shoeing the poor horse should have got in the first place. But when you start to mess about with wedges, bars, extentions and pads you really start to mess up the foot. If the farrier knows EXACTLY what the problem is (and it's cause) it can be sorted well. But that's one of the big problems with remedial shoeing - it's so hard to pinpoint the exact root of the problem (and for many horses just having shoes at all is the problem). It the farrier gets it (balance, angle etc) even a tiny bit wrong (and shoeing isn't a precise art) then it's never going to resolve.

Which is why I would take the shoes off this horse for a period of time and let them grow (with help of boots and pads if need be), the foot needed. It may not be a pretty looking foot (they can be very squint sometimes) but it will be the foot the horse needs in relation to the body and legs above. Once the foots decided what it wants to do then shoes can be re-applied by a good farrier who won't try and force the foot back into the textbook shape we, as humans, like to see.

Of course the current farrier may just be crap (there are plenty around!) and the horse doesn't need any form of 'remedial' shoeing, just decent proper normal correct shoeing. But from what she's said I suspect not.
 
Why after 12 months did your farrier change from normal shoes to natural balance ones??? As others have said if it’s not broke why fix it. Would definitely follow up on the advice here and get it investigated as it all sounds a bit odd
 
I would defo have another farrier look at him!!

My horse had odd feet and he is a DW and he is fine and he just has normal shoes on!! But he has them done every 4/5 weeks!! Just to make sure he is not putting extra pressure on he heel/ tendons!!

Hope your boy gets sorted!!

Gemma x
 
Kallibear said:
I have seen more remedial shoeing (good and bad!) than you would beleive ;)

A lot of what many class as 'remedial' is in fact just the 'correct' shoeing the poor horse should have got in the first place. But when you start to mess about with wedges, bars, extentions and pads you really start to mess up the foot. If the farrier knows EXACTLY what the problem is (and it's cause) it can be sorted well. But that's one of the big problems with remedial shoeing - it's so hard to pinpoint the exact root of the problem (and for many horses just having shoes at all is the problem). It the farrier gets it (balance, angle etc) even a tiny bit wrong (and shoeing isn't a precise art) then it's never going to resolve.

Which is why I would take the shoes off this horse for a period of time and let them grow (with help of boots and pads if need be), the foot needed. It may not be a pretty looking foot (they can be very squint sometimes) but it will be the foot the horse needs in relation to the body and legs above. Once the foots decided what it wants to do then shoes can be re-applied by a good farrier who won't try and force the foot back into the textbook shape we, as humans, like to see.

Of course the current farrier may just be crap (there are plenty around!) and the horse doesn't need any form of 'remedial' shoeing, just decent proper normal correct shoeing. But from what she's said I suspect not.
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I totally agree kallibear, let the hoof grow naturally without shoes on and see where you go from there, maybe get a fresh pair of eyes (New farrier and maybe your vet aswell) 5-6 weeks after you have taken the shoes off they will then be able to assess what is the problem and should be able to find a solution if any, I don't know what your farrier is faffing around at, if it aint broke don't fix it :-)
 
Stelzar said:
I totally agree kallibear, let the hoof grow naturally without shoes on and see where you go from there, maybe get a fresh pair of eyes (New farrier and maybe your vet aswell) 5-6 weeks after you have taken the shoes off they will then be able to assess what is the problem and should be able to find a solution if any, I don't know what your farrier is faffing around at, if it aint broke don't fix it :-)
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Shoes on/shoes off, either could work but as has been said, the view of a vet or at least a second set of eyes is vital. There could be causes for this uneven loading entirely unrelated to the affected foot - just taking off the shoes may do nothing to help this.
 
just like to point out that no farrier is allowed to make any diagnosis like that . it is his duty to inform you that you might like to seek a qualified opinion from a veterinarian of your choice . if i was the farrier i would contact a local experienced farrier and ask him to come along and look at the horse and to give me his opinion on what could be done to improve the situation (2 heads are better than one )
chris
 
Why is everyone focussing on the wider foot? This is the foot receiving additional weight encouraging it to spread.

We should all be focussing on the smaller foot and to why the horse is not placing his weight evenly on both feet.
 
I agree with what's been said above.

Speak to your vet. Presuming it is a specialist equine vet, ask who they use as their remedial farrier. Try and get vet and Remedial Farrier out at the same time to look at your horse's feet and get an informed second opinion.
 
Kallibear said:
Once the foots decided what it wants to do then shoes can be re-applied by a good farrier who won't try and force the foot back into the textbook shape we, as humans, like to see.
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Disagree completely! The FIRST reason for feet going wrong is the way the horse's leg grows as a youngster. I have two very nice 2 year olds, for example - if I'd left their feet to grow the way they wanted to, they'd both be SO wrong in the feet they'd be crippled by now!

Instead, my farrier trimmed them - and trimmed them - every 3 weeks for several months! The problem was a tendency to pidgeon toes - exacerbated with the fact they were growing fast and were narrow in the chest. With careful and constant trimming, and the chest filling out, they now have perfect feet and correct legs.

A mare - narrow chested and moving a bit close in front. Another farrier (at hunt kennels - now replaced) did NOTHING to help this tendency and she started falling over!! She came home - I watched her move and she was brushing with her front feet!:eek: My very good farrier shod her with side extensions - on the inside of the foot (we had to use brushing boots as the exposed shoe would have cut her if she HAD brushed.) The next day I watched her move and her front feet - rather than toughing each other as they passed - had clearance of six inches. She never fell again and she now doesn't need the extensions.

My farrier shoes the foot the horse SHOULD have - and the foot grows that way. Left to its own devices it would - in many cases - get worse.
 
lochpearl said:
I would be very concerned at the fact that in 12 months the farrier hasn't been able to build his heels up. I would definitely say it is time for a new farrier.
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Just what I thought. Depending on the reputation of this farrier, I would either change farrier to one who works with your vet and is recommended by experienced horse people or ask the vet to attend at the next farrier visit and discuss this in your presence.
 
If you can afford it please get your vet to x-ray. That's the only true way you're going to find out what shape your boys feet are in. You can then work under x-ray guideanace with a farrier of your choice or theirs and get him back on track. I'd also be very tempted to get the heart bar shoes off straight away.
 
UPDATE

I have taken on board all your advice and I am going to get another Farrier to have a look at him, as I feel my farrier really isn't experienced enough for this after reading your comments!

Just to reiterate, he is completely sound, is regularly worked, regular turn out, has hoof supplements every day.. When I bought him 12 months ago he had on front shoes with 2toe clips and longer at the heel for support... He has not had any previous problems, my farrier has continuously changed his types of shoe and is now saying his feet are changing at every shoeing, is this not due to the change is shoes???

He has a heart bar shoe just on his larger hoof, and a normal shoe on his smaller hoof, hence I am not doing any work with him, just turning him out for a couple of hours a day, as I am terrified of causing any damage!!!!
 
I think that you're definitely doing the right thing! If, as your farrier claims, the feet are changing at every shoeing then I would suspect it is down to what he is doing!!! Also I would not think (although I don't know for sure) that it would not be good practise to put a heart-bar on one foot and not the other. Seems very strange to me. Good luck with the second opinion - just make sure that this farrier has the experience you are looking for!
 
Heart bar on one foot? I too don't think thats very good practice, i would get another farrier to have a look, this all sounds a bit odd??
 
Why is everyone focussing on the wider foot? This is the foot receiving additional weight encouraging it to spread.

We should all be focussing on the smaller foot and to why the horse is not placing his weight evenly on both feet.
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This. ^

Our farrier won't fit heart bars without at the very least an initial set of x-rays. The reason being, if you're going to hold the pedal bone in a vice, you need to know where it is and what it's doing. And you just can't tell from outside - our laminitic suprised me, the vet and the farrier, as it turns out that his pedal bones are really short. When he had a bit of rotation a few years ago, knowing from the x-rays that there was quite a bit of foot to play with before they hit anything vital meant the farriers could take a more agressive approach to his trimming than was otherwise the case. As a result he was completely sound from crippled within six weeks. With rotated laminitics there is always the worry than the pedal bone is very close to the sole of the foot, so the x-rays were very helpful.

Also, if my farriers are going to change anything drastic about my horses' shoeing/trimming, they do it as part of a discussion with me. They have pointed me in the direction of my vet before now when they've noticed a change that needs further investigation.

I would just put a bit of a caviat on JG's comment about shoeing/trimming to the foot the horse should have. My farriers are always saying 'the horse hasn't read the textbook'. It depends on why the foot isn't growing right. If you've got an uneven flight path/landing for the foot because the leg conformation isn't great, actually straightening that foot landing up and forcing the horse to hit the ground dead straight might end up causing you additional twisting problems higher up the leg. In a young growing horse you've got a chance to gradually straighten up conformation but in an older horse things are more set. You need to take a hollistic view of the horse and work out which stresses are hitting which joints and why. It might be that you have to live with a less than textbook foot to save additional stress on the suspensory, for example.

For example, one of ours has very dramatic bow legs. His foot grows (in the words of our farrier) 'more flare than a 70s pimp'. If you took the foot in isolation, it looks awful and unbalanced. But if you look at the foot underneath his awful front leg conformation, you can see why it is growing how it is growing and how the horse is growing the foot he needs. Although he has a history of nasty tendon issues from his old racing days, the horse is sound. So we don't mess with it. The farrier just keeps the flare from running away too much, and Ol gets to keep his wonky feet.

To the OP - good luck, and I hope you find someone who will work with you.
 
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I would speak to your farrier and your vet, maybe get them to come and both have a look so they can have a chat with each other. What part of the country are you in?
 
My horse wears heart bars...been one one month with a graduated heel as well on the fronts...he has severe pain in his navicular but no damage.
It has helped him tremendously.
But before they went on he had x rays and an MRI on his front feet.
It took me a while to get the right farrier and vet who both specialised in his lameness and remedial shoeing.
I have learnt the hard way...I moved yards over 18 months ago had a new farrier who basically didn't shoe him correctly for his particular needs.
Natural balance suit only very few horses...my next farrier only wanted to do things his way and would not speak to the vet the one I have now works very well with the vet and they discuss every thing together and take my horse very seriuosly...don't let a farrier or a vet not do the best for you. ( I also saw another specialist vet , who was unhelpful and just wanted him ridden on bute) I later found out my horses whole foot balance was not level horizontally or vertically.... but only a brave person would tell me that!
You will get there...but it will take time.
I can now walk and trot my horse in a school after about 8 months of finding someone who can help me...hopefully I will get my horse back...
Be strong and fight for your horse and yourself!!!

.
 
I'm glad you're getting a second opinion, but please do check that the farriers in question are registered with the Farriers Registration Council and are up to date on this database:

http://www.farrier-reg.gov.uk/findafarrier.asp?page=findafarrier

I would also strongly urge that you make an appointment with your vet to be there at the same time as the new farrier.

And, if your horse will insist on having problematic feet, I'd recommend you do lots of research yourself and get to know all about hooves, feet, farriery and how the foot is supposed to function :)
 
mcnaughty said:
Call your vet and ask them who they use for remedial shoeing - personally I would cut out the middle man if you know what I mean ....
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That's what I would do, too.

IME farriers seem to like to be prophets of doom.
I would also look at as many horses' feet as you can to get a better idea of what good feet should look like and even ask friends if you can be present when their horses are shod, in order to increase your own knowledge. The best farriers are more than willing to explain what they are doing and why.
 
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