Help from people who deal with "difficult" horses (sorry long)

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Lucy_Nottingham

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I have a bit of a problem,
one of the mares I ride for my part time job whilst at uni has started being really arsey and almost dangerous.

Before christmas she started rearing to avoid doing any work but i managed (through perseverance and 1 unintended "dismount") to minimise this, she still slowed or try to stop but was rearing/napping much much less.

However, I then had to go home from uni for 4 weeks over christmas. Plus the snow etc meant that she has not been ridden, but has been loose schooled, whilst iv been away!

Can you guess how fun she is now?!
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On wednesday I loose schooled her for 30mins with the YO (who also owns her) and then sat on her, and the first thing she did was dig her heels in and feel like she was going to go up. The YO smacked her on the bum as I pony club kicked like a nutter (didnt have spurs or a crop on as didnt think id need them or they would make it worse first time out) and then every 5 steps in walk or trot she was just trying to stop and throwing her head up and back etc.
her throwing me off just before xmas knocked my nerves a little bit but I am ok to get back on her (I know how bad it is not to get back on after coming off).

Then today we loose schooled her again as I had about 8 horses in total to ride or exercise, and she enjoyed her leg stretch/mental flybucking round the school! I am happy that she enjoyed it etc however at one point she pointed herself straight at me and galloped at me, then turned at the last moment.

Then after this she was much better (she is always perfectly well behaved to lead and tie) however later on whilst she was in the stable, I took her haynet to fill for overnight. I replaced it, then went back in to poo pick the stable.
However as I opened the door and tried to enter she span, turned her butt to the door and double barrelled out.
I managed to stay out the way, and got the headcollar and leadrope to catch her and as i went back in she did it again.
3rd time I managed to basically jump her and get it on, and I kept control of her head and made her face me whilst I did the poo picking.

However, obviously this is not a good thing to be happening as it is a) knocking my confidence a bit which is not good and I have been with horses for 20 years so am pretty happy and confident in most situations, but have never had a horse like her to deal with and b) its obviously not an acceptable way for her to act!

So has anyone got any tips for me??? I am getting to my wits end and I don't want to give up on her but also don't want to put myself at any severe risk as I start rotations at easter!

her back, teeth etc are all regularly done and checked, her saddle is being assessed tomorrow. overall she is in good health and she is on a Mg (think thats right) calmer!

please anyone........ help?!
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im taking it as lucy is a 4th year vet student then
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! And cant really give much advice there apart from when skipping out tie up outisde? Whilst riding try the spurs/get an instructor in to help just as a one off?
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sounds very much like she is in pain when ridden and is now taking every opportunity to try and tell you she doesnt want to be ridden.

im no fluffy bunny hugger and the first person to give something a belt for being a sod, but honestly this sounds like a pain issue to me.
 
yup 4th year (ARGH!!!! terrified!)

Well my problem was that even when I went in to put the headcollar on her she double barrelled out again!!!

I dont want to lose my temper with her but OMG it is so difficult not to when she is being so blatently unnecessarily aggressive! and she is a big bolshy mare so its too dangerous for her to act like this!!

Normally when I ride I have the spurs on, I just didnt think the first time round id need to energy "boost" hehe obv i did! (cowbag!) however I am just so nervous now that the energy boost is going to result in a swift bronk round the school (which I can noramlly 9/10 sit to) but its when she rears she goes into almost a blind state where whatever you do she just gets worse and worse!!
she has reared into the fence with me before, luckily I managed to get her out of it and carried on and she was fine!

John - the YO/owner has had her checked previously when she first started doing this. I know some of it will be the 4 weeks off (although not 100% off, but not ridden off) but I unfortunatly cannot do anything in terms of getting the vet in etc for her as she is not my horse. I can do my best to suggest it to the owner etc but she is very knowledgable and is not one to skimp if she feel the horse needs it. but will definetly keep my eyes etc open for anything that could indicate a veterinary problem. thanks
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GAH its like smacking my head into a brick wall!!! (not u lot! Im all for advice and help etc!)
 
PrinS - I will see if she has the chiropractor coming out at any point soon then and hopefully I will be able to convince her to let the mare get assessed etc.
I hope she isnt in pain, and this is why i am trying not to lose my temper. Although I admit I did when she kicked out the 2nd time, involving much swearing and shouting.. ahem
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I think theres something in the air at the moment. Theres a similar thing going on with another poster in Vet. Could be her hormones/ovaries making her this way. If theres nothing obvious then its probably a vet visit, does sound pain related tbh.
 
There are any number of issues which could be causing this (hormones etc) but aggression like this can also be a sign of ulcers - something to think about?
 
Admittedly I have not read all the replies ....
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However, if you don't have to ride her, then I would move on and not lose your confidence on this horse, sorry
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Hi I used to ride a horse exactly like this! started being awful to ride then gradually statted getting horrible on the ground, and that was due to her back. I know you said its been checked but we got someone that does equine touch, they manipulate muscles all over the horse and find pressure points general back people miss. After a few sessions of this she was a lot better. They have a website so just type it in google if you are interested. but to me this sounds like shes in pain. hope this helps.
 
eaglestone - no I agree, I have said to the YO/owner I do not want to ride her unsupervised and basically wish her to be there to help/guide me (as she is very experienced) and have made it clear I cannot risk getting injured/hurt due to rotations etc!

I will try my best to "drop" into the conversations we have about her, about the possibilities of the hormones, ulcers etc. Thank you, please keep advice coming as I really do like this mare I just wish I knew what has changed (as I say it started before xmas) that has made her suddenly go loop the loop!!
 
kicking out in stable is unacceptable! vulgar behaviour requires vulgar action! as for ridden once teeth back feet saddle fitting have been ruled out then you either cut the grub out and chuck out for a few days to chill and deflate or give them a good 3hack and ride it forward! get it going! get it out of the school and up some gallops and empty the petrol tanks! then think nicely (collected, in a shape and rythym come way after learning to go forward!!)
 
ocyc - Im glad its not just me that thinks she is being vulgar (with reg to the kicking out etc)

she can be a b*nt out on hacks too, she is just a lazy mare that tries to get out of work by napping/rearing etc if I stay on and ask to go again she either a) rears again or b) gets over and goes lovely (this was before xmas, no idea whats going to happen now!)

I need some nice uphill gallops! unfortuantly we are on the trent plains!!! er.......
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Hi Lucy_Nottingham,

I'd get the YO + owner of the horse on board. It seems that's where problem is. Get her on board the horse, get a good trainer in at same time, + you'll have the definitive answer......

My gut feel is that you (+ horse) should sack YO. She owns this mare? And mare's been in, not worked, then you're expected to get on? You're a braver lass than me!!

So how come you have to ride her?! And have to put yourself in situation when mare's so frustrated that she's double-barrelling you?

My best help for this 'difficult' horse?

Sack the idiot owner, + find a better one for her.

BS x
 
The YO owns the mare.

The mare hasnt been worked due to snow, but has been loose schooled in the smaller indoor arena. but hasnt been ridden.

I don't know if im brave or stupid........ or possible both!
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I dont know why she suddenly decided to double barrel out as she has never done it before with me, she puts her ears back and pulls faces but never done that before.

she would be sold if anyone wanted her!! but I don't think anyone would want her when she acts like this (I certainly wouldn't and I really like her! ok yes im definelty a bit stupid!)

The YO is a really good horsewoman, and a really good owner, she really does care alot about the horses on her yard! But she does say that horses that act like this she feels she is too old to risk getting thrown off etc (which i get! although she does ride some that do throw her off)

I wish someone would buy the mare and spend every day working consistently with her to achieve all the potential which she is full of! I just don't have that time and I hate that I cant help her more!
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I have been going through something very similar with my mare who turned on me late november/early december.

Have put it down to a number of factors with the main ones being no/limited winter turnout at yard, constant season and stallion arrived on yard.

She started to rear, full on with a swivel. I ended up in hedges, swinging from the rafters of the indoor school etc and my lowest point was being eliminated from a competition at fence 2 - the complete works. For sale sign very nearly went up.

Anyway, put her on magic and had some improvement but not masses. Spoke to vet and he felt her change was connected to pain or hormones. I felt the only area that could be questionable was her back so got the physio out and on vets suggestion also put her on regumate. Physio confirmed some tightness across her back which is being worked on.

With the regumate, she has lost that evil look in her eye and can be persuaded to be a good girl and talked through most situations. She has turned a little nappy in the stable, happy to show off her lovely teeth although that has improved a little.

I do feel for you - difficult position. At least I can make and take my decisions, act without asking others. The regumate is very expensive and I would prefer her not to be on it but I have a nearly sane and rideable horse. I am hoping when she starts to get some turnout in a short time she will chill out again.

Good luck.
 
Sorry - but it's bloody irresponsible of YO to put a vet student (or ANY student) on this mare!! I employ a VERY experienced professional rider who has been backing and re-training problem horses for 15 years and he is the ONLY one who rides anything I would prefer not to (and I'm 60 - and fairly decrepit!!) Say NO! Vets need to be physically fit - if you're hurt riding this mare, you've thrown 4 years training and your future career down the drain.

If you feel you really MUST ride it, then lunge her until she has NO energy left first. Do this daily for a couple of days and if that doesn't do anything, then she's either a nut case who needs professional re-schooling, OR she's in pain - probably back or ovaries. Do NOT let yourself be used as cannon fodder!
 
There is always a reason for bad behaviour and yes it must be annoying for your getting so far and then something else flairs up, personally I wouldnt continue riding her until the owner has gone down every possible route to find out what the problem could be, its not fair on you or the horse and one of you could get seriously injured.

The owner is lucky to have someone like you trying to straighten the mare out but sometimes it takes more than a good rider and patience, it takes money and time also.
 
Ulcers is my immediate thought. They can make horses very reluctant to go forwards and react to pressure from your leg. They can also cause serious grumps..

I would have a go at giving her a bucket of mollasses free chaff before you ride to see if there is any difference
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Before christmas she started rearing to avoid doing any work
However as I opened the door and tried to enter she span, turned her butt to the door and double barrelled out.



[/ QUOTE ]

Seems to me she's trying to tell you something, 'Rearing to avoid doing any work' and 'double barrelling' when you go into the stable are pretty extreme reactions! I'd avoid doing any work until she's been given a complete MOT by the vet/oesteo/dentist etc etc
She's giving you big reactions now, if you refuse to listen she'll only get more and more extreme!
 
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I dont want to lose my temper with her but OMG it is so difficult not to when she is being so blatently unnecessarily aggressive!

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Yes. Please don't get aggressive.
First off, Horses are not unnecessary agressive. They just react. They have no secret hidden agenda, they don't plan ahead nor do they do things without reason. The thing is to find the reason and if we cannot find it or don't try we put it down to them being stupid or naughty.

You need to find out why this mare is behaving this way.

Does she get turned out??
If so how long for?
How many times a week is she being exercised?
Does her saddle fit (and I mean really fit well, i.e checked by someone qualified not YO or Owner
What is she eating?? If on hard feed was it cut down since she wasn't doing much?
Does she have access to adlib forage??


Definitely get her checked out for back/saddle/teeth/vet etc. Forcing her into work if she is in pain will not help at all so check these out.
She may also be in season and in pain. Even though it's this time of year it doesn't matter some mares can be in season all year, so maybe worth having a scan or something.

However she may be trying her luck in which case you need some help. Whips and spurs have their place but mares are pretty sharp and wont be bossed around too much. I would consider getting someone experienced (i.e someone else) to have a look. Sometimes getting an new pair of eyes on the ground will spot something no one else has!

I know how it feels to have a tricky mare, as I have one. So I wish you all the luck.x
 
All good advice - what is she being fed on still? even my straightforward boy started to turn into a bit of a pain when his work was cut right back with the snow etc. He was reasonably fit so didn't appreciate the sudden stop. While I agree the other options are still a good idea, alongside I would be looking at cutting back feed so nothing heating at all, and working the mare on a lunge/pessoa for at least a week till she starts to settle. Even the nicest best behaved horse tried it on a bit when they came back into work and none of them have been off for as long as the mare... and I agree that the YO was less than kind putting you on a horse who is known to be OTT when she hasn't been worked for a month...
 
All really good advice, just a thought though ref Ulcers. You say this behaviour started in Decemeber, was this during the cold spell??
One of my horses who suffers Ulcers actually went through a very bad patch during that spell of freezing weather. It was the weather that caused the Ulcers to flare up quite badly.
 
This sounds very similar to my mare. Broke her, brought her on, had a couple of months off and when I brought her back into work she started napping and rearing. It turned out in the end that she had thickened tendons in her hind legs which were pressing on her nerves. This was causing her considerable pain but as it was equal in both legs she never appeared lame. Could be worth having a chat with your vet, I can't remember how they diagnosed mine. She's been operated on to have nerves removed and now is absolutely fine (took a while to make her realised she wasn't in pain any more).
 
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Hi Lucy_Nottingham,

I'd get the YO + owner of the horse on board. It seems that's where problem is. Get her on board the horse, get a good trainer in to comment at same time, + you'll have the definitive answer......!!

My gut feel is that you (+ horse) should sack YO. She owns this mare? And mare's been in, not worked, then you're expected to get on? You're a braver lass than me!!

So how come you have to ride her?! And have to put yourself in situation when mare's so frustrated that she's double-barrelling you?

My best help for this 'difficult' horse?

Sack the idiot owner, + find a better one for her.

BS x

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My best advice, friend, is that you don't get on this mare again. It's up to aggressive owner to find a good home. I've got a lovely, lovely mare from a similar background, where she had reputation of being aggressive + scary!! (Eh?) She's one of nicest, kindest mares i've ever met, + i'm no Mark Todd!! But she's just lovely. I send my wishes that yours is the same. I don't deal with "difficult horses", but sometimes have to get a shilling for survival from "very difficult people", so maybe clue there? I don't know, but wish you well, BS x
 
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