HELP ... gateway bully!!

Vanner

Vanner

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My OH's schoolmaster, an old Welsh Section D is a lovely old fella, and does exactly what it said on the tin in that anybody can ride him, he is bomb proof, easy catch, load, shoe etc, etc, etc ... he really is worth his weight in gold for a beginner and is working wonders for my OH.

HOWEVER, he is a complete and utter bully at the gate and will not allow my young cob anywhere near it. By the time we go to catch them, my cob is hot, snorty, and looking all wild eyed!! The last couple of nights, my cob has raced past me and run through the gate - straight into the yard and into his stable!

My Bandit is a gentle soul, very laid back and easy to do anything with, but he does still show some memories of his gypsy birth and childhood (he was with them until a 6 year old, and is just turned 8 now), and gets really upset at aggression and simply gets terrified and runs away from it. I am really worried that the old chap is crushing the confidence that I have worked so hard to build with Bandit.

If I bring the old fella in Bandit goes berserk as is not used to being on his own, but the old fella won't let me catch Bandit first as he just keeps running him off. If I lose my rag at the old fella, Bandit then runs from me as I am just another bully!

HELP!! any ideas would be gratefully received ...
 
Could you put a safe tie point a short distance from the gate and tie up next to it to bring yours in? Or section off infront of the gate with temp electric and only move bandit into this area to catch to being in?
 
Create a pen with electric fencing, in a square at the gate and with a gate at each side. Bully will have too big an area to defend. Young horse will be happy once in pen as he won't be cornered so you can bring him through gate without stress.
 
I think you might need a 2nd 'body' about for a bit.
Can the old boy be caught & held firmly a little away from the gateway?
This could allow you to catch your cob & bring in, then the other person could release or bring in the old boy once the gate has closed.

Although I dont usually recco, would the old fella respond politely to being tied out of the way, if you have a safe place to do so? (if there are no others in the field apart from these 2?)

Not worth trying as on your own I dont think you will resolve this quickly, especially if the younger one is then stressing at being on his own if you do remove the old boy 1st
 
2 people to catch in if you can would be best.

Put oldie on a lunge line and get him out the gate, then put younster on a lunge line and bring him through the gate - walk em both in together -but dont get your legs get caught up in the lunge lines

Tie oldie up - catch youngie, untie oldie and give him a small bucket feed - or vice a versa
 
They are just hungry. Do they have hay in the field ? Is it possible to bring them in a bit earlier to defuse the stress ?

hHowever, the older horse is just putting the youngster in his place, there's no malice intended, the horses understand this.

The young cob needs to learn that hungry or not, barging and rushing is not acceptable. He isn't terrified, he just wants to eat. No excuses.
 
ahhh!! tying up by the gate ... why didn't I think of that, what a simple thing to do!! Brilliant!!!!

As far as electric fence goes ... the old fella used to be a JA jumping pony - many years ago it has to be said - so he just jumps electric fence, the wiley old fox!!

If tying up doesn't work .. anybody want a beautiful chesnut 20 year old, 14.1hh section D schoolmaster?!?! LOLOLOL!!!!!! (Don't think the OH would notice ... much!!!!!!!)
 
I have an old thug, and has been suggested I catch him first then tie him up about 10 foot away from the gate, then catch the other two. Once I have them I can untie him and lead all three in together.
 
Section the paddock if possible and have each horse in their own bit. If he jumps use the extra tall posts 160cm and use a double lot 6ft ish apart I wouldn't tolerate this and he'd be separate sharpish.
 
horserider said:
They are just hungry. Do they have hay in the field ? Is it possible to bring them in a bit earlier to defuse the stress ?

hHowever, the older horse is just putting the youngster in his place, there's no malice intended, the horses understand this.

The young cob needs to learn that hungry or not, barging and rushing is not acceptable. He isn't terrified, he just wants to eat. No excuses.
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No they aren't hungry, but I do agree that they are GREEDY - especially the old chap. They are in a good field with grass, and are having hay in the field during the snow, plus hay and small feed at night.

My young cob isn't barging the gate either, he is escaping the bully, he has not barged anyone out of the way, just nips past. When he was with my own old chap (who we lost 2 weeks ago) and who wasn't a bully, Bandit never rushed the gate, trotted into the yard and straight into his stable - where his feed is, which he ignores and just stands in the corner shaking with fear. When I get into the stable with him, he comes straight to me for reassurance and comfort, and will only eat his tea when I offer it to him. Sorry, horserider, I know fear when I see it after nearly 46 years of owning horses.

He had a rough time with the Gypsies - they deal in hard love at the end of the day, and the scars run deep.
 
I'd put some electric up by the gate way and if the baby trys to push though he will just go in there! is the old horse scared of electic? mine back out of the way if you flick the fencing at them! the oldie might get out of the way if you do that!

I used to lead two at a time until my baby realised he could rear, so had to let my old girl go to try and stop him, so I couldnt recommend leading two at a time unless they are really well behaved!
 
I have the same problem, Freddie is timid and has taken a long time to come to us as humans, but in the field he is bullied by the grannies, doesn't bother me to be honest, he isn't allowed by the gate either, it has taught him not to step out of line (hes 2.5) they are 23 and 24! he did escape from the field yesterday and this was due to panicking as the girls had him pinned! He is so respectful tho, he daren't step a hoof out of line or the girls lay in to him, they are the best to teach him how horses should behave and the old pecking order:D
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
I have the same problem, Freddie is timid and has taken a long time to come to us as humans, but in the field he is bullied by the grannies, doesn't bother me to be honest, he isn't allowed by the gate either, it has taught him not to step out of line (hes 2.5) they are 23 and 24! he did escape from the field yesterday and this was due to panicking as the girls had him pinned! He is so respectful tho, he daren't step a hoof out of line or the girls lay in to him, they are the best to teach him how horses should behave and the old pecking order:D
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Sounds very much like a young cob I had. Although he'd been starved by his traveller owners, he quickly learnt how to wait his turn at the gate as his elders and betters taught him his manners.
They were all very fond of each other, but their no nonsense approach did him the world of good.
 
Vanner said:
My OH's schoolmaster, an old Welsh Section D is a lovely old fella, and does exactly what it said on the tin in that anybody can ride him, he is bomb proof, easy catch, load, shoe etc, etc, etc ... he really is worth his weight in gold for a beginner and is working wonders for my OH.

HOWEVER, he is a complete and utter bully
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Lol you could have been writing about my middle aged section D,apart from the colour and height,oh and the loading he doesn't 'do' loading,not without a huge fuss and some brute force anyway:rolleyes:

Mine is a bully generally,not just at the gate.Just a very dominant type on the ground.

I haven't found any miraculous solutions I'm afraid.I usually handle grumpy welshie in a dually halter and a lunge line,and just try and keep my youngster out of the line of fire.
Second the idea of electric tape enclosure though,really does help keep everyone safe and makes moving in and out of the field easier.Is pretty much what i do,move one at a time and have a buffer zone like the enclosure so don't have to have eyes in the back of my head and so young horse can relax and not be whirling around me trying to escape bully of a welsh cob!!
 
Sorry, I don't understand why the fact that he was brought up by gypsies has any bearing on Bandit's behaviour. He is looking to humans for reassurance because he is worried by a horse - totally the opposite to what you would expect from a rough upbringing.

IMO you need two people to bring these horses in, make sure that you stick to the same routine every single day before you bring them in, so that they know exactly what stage of preparation you've got to. Ours always send a 'runner' to check where we're up to, while we're getting ready to bring in. Don't let the youngster 'nip' past you - he will begin to think that is acceptable behaviour and that there really is something to worry about.
If you keep calm and just expect him to come in sensibly, following the oldie, then he will.
One person should catch the oldie and stand still with him in the field, the other person should then catch the youngie and when both are ready, set off one behind the other, with youngie turning to shut the gate, while oldie waits quietly. Then both set off again in tandem. If one starts to rush, both stop and settle down, circling if necessary.
 
Hi Vanner,

I'm sorry that you are having this problem with two horses you adore.

I am making an assumption from your post that they are the only two? Have you witnessed any other agression from the older fella other than at the gate?

There seems to have been a massive power shift in your small herd since you lost your other horse (who sounds like the gaffer) - which the older fella is trying to fill - and doing a bad job at it. This may have been made worse by the season and the lack of food etc.

Is it an option to give them both their feeds in the field? Away from each other to begin with? Just to remove food as the problem? Then as other posters have suggested take out old fella first, tie up then younger lad next? and bring them back together?
 
Just a couple of things ...

a) I was asking for tips, not a full on horse language breakdown on why this is happening. To do that you would need to come to see what is happening for yourself.

b) Bandit is not an ignorant bargy youngster being put in his place by an older horse to teach him manners. I have studied Equus for about 10 years and so am well aware of the intracies of horses. I've had him for 2 years and he has impeccable manners in the field and stable with both humans and horses. He has never needed to be "put in his place" or "taught manners" by an oldie, and has been kept with and oldie since I had him. My OH's old fella is lovely, but is a grumpy old man and is a full on bully.

Thanks for the brilliant tip of tying up the old fella, I will try that. But don't care for the tone of some of the others.
 
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My routine is......

Obi first ALWAYS.

Open gate, give treat, put his head collar on.
Bring through gate and wait while The Tank comes to the gate.
Give The Tank a treat, put head collar on and bring The Tank through the gate.

Both turn to face me and wait patiently while I close the gate (keeping an eye on Obi for biting The Tank while my back is turned).

Treat both.

Walk both back to yard.

Get to barn, stop at doorway, throw rope over Obi's neck and let him walk into his stable.

Then throw rope around The Tank's neck and leave him grooming his friend over the stable door while I go into barn, take Obi's head collar off and open The Tank's door for him (two corner stables).

Wait for The Tank to finish grooming and walk into his stable.

Been in this routine for 7 years now :).
 
To have a distinct pecking order at the gate is entirely normal, & doesn't in anyway mean the one at the top is the bully. But hey, if you speak the language of equus just sit the older horse down & explain why he should let the lower ranking horse out first. And while you're at it tell the younger horse he doesn't need to run back to his stable. Simples.
 
Littlelegs said:
To have a distinct pecking order at the gate is entirely normal, & doesn't in anyway mean the one at the top is the bully. But hey, if you speak the language of equus just sit the older horse down & explain why he should let the lower ranking horse out first. And while you're at it tell the younger horse he doesn't need to run back to his stable. Simples.
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PMSL
 
Littlelegs said:
To have a distinct pecking order at the gate is entirely normal, & doesn't in anyway mean the one at the top is the bully. But hey, if you speak the language of equus just sit the older horse down & explain why he should let the lower ranking horse out first. And while you're at it tell the younger horse he doesn't need to run back to his stable. Simples.
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ahhhh right, and there I was thinking that this was a forum of experienced people, willing to read the thread and offer advice. Instead, it appears to be silly people coming out with silly things .... I don't "speak" equus, littlelegs, I said I'd studied it care of Monty Roberts and Kelly Marks, are you belittling them too, I wonder?

think I will leave this right here, right now, and stick to people that are willing to help in a sane and sensible way. Sadly that is lacking on here. Thanks to those that actually read the initial query and gave me some seriously good tips.
 
Lol, but yes if, & its a big if, monty Roberts, Kelly marks or anyone else told me it was bullying, rather than entirely normal for horses to have a pecking order regarding gateways I wouldn't believe them either. I did actually offer advice earlier to just get them in together. Being thought of as silly by someone who can't co-ordinate catching two horses I'll take as a compliment, cheers!
 
Littlelegs said:
Lol, but yes if, & its a big if, monty Roberts, Kelly marks or anyone else told me it was bullying, rather than entirely normal for horses to have a pecking order regarding gateways I wouldn't believe them either. I did actually offer advice earlier to just get them in together. Being thought of as silly by someone who can't co-ordinate catching two horses I'll take as a compliment, cheers!
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Even more laughter.

I always think that it is extremely rude to argue with/insult people who have given their time to respond to a query, even if you don't think much of their answers. Best just to say thanks and carry on in the same unproductive way as usual IMO.
 
Can you not just catch the old boy first, and then catch the youngster and then lead 'em both in together?
Assuming it's not a massive herd milling about at the gate I'm not sure why this should be a problem?
 
Vanner said:
Just a couple of things ...

a) I was asking for tips, not a full on horse language breakdown on why this is happening. To do that you would need to come to see what is happening for yourself.

b) Bandit is not an ignorant bargy youngster being put in his place by an older horse to teach him manners. I have studied Equus for about 10 years and so am well aware of the intracies of horses. I've had him for 2 years and he has impeccable manners in the field and stable with both humans and horses. He has never needed to be "put in his place" or "taught manners" by an oldie, and has been kept with and oldie since I had him. My OH's old fella is lovely, but is a grumpy old man and is a full on bully.

Thanks for the brilliant tip of tying up the old fella, I will try that. But don't care for the tone of some of the others.
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Woahhhhhhhhhh sounds like you took offense at my reply, what you need to remember is I took the time to reply to you, and you should be curt, not rude! Yes your horse does need to be taught manners by other horses, this will go on through your horses entire life cycle, it's how they naturally behave! I was merely giving you an example of what happens in my field, Freddie is pretty angelic for a 2 yr old with perfect manners too, but he's still a horse, horses behave differently around horses than they do humans! Sounds like you need to be taught some manners too.. rude!
 
Littlelegs said:
Lol, but yes if, & its a big if, monty Roberts, Kelly marks or anyone else told me it was bullying, rather than entirely normal for horses to have a pecking order regarding gateways I wouldn't believe them either. I did actually offer advice earlier to just get them in together. Being thought of as silly by someone who can't co-ordinate catching two horses I'll take as a compliment, cheers!
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Touche!
 
Right have just re read your post as you suggested and my no matter how frightened your cob is it shouldn't rush past a human at the gate and plough on through, it needs to learn to wait it's turn! Bring the older one in and leave the younger one in the field and come back and bring each one in safely, it's very dangerous to allow horses to barge their way out of the field. Freddie was badly treated by his breeders and has a disturbed past he is terrified of conflict, he's even terrified of ropes! But he has enough manners not to run me through the gate if I am stood there! An idea of how scared he is of the mares... the other day they bullied him over the muck heap and out the field! Seriously get this one used to being left for 3 mins, they soon learn!
 
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