Help getting bit in mouth!

iconique

iconique

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I'm at a loss and need some idea's, my youngster came back from being broken and since he's been home getting a bit in his mouth has been difficult.

I've tried lots of things and before I get shot down, I've had lots of youngsters and even have this chaps 1/2 sister who is the same age and didn't get sent away who stands opens her mouth and expects it to be put in.

When the bit is in, he is generally good although we do have other issues that we are working on including puddles/water.

He throws his head up and down and at 16hh even stood on a box is a challenge (I'm quite short). He's evasive so will use his nose to move the bit away from his mouth, if all else fails he takes you out with his front foot either swiping at you to tip you over or knocking the back of your legs. His head goes in whatever direction it can and holding on to the top of a nose is a no no, this massively upsets him. His teeth have been checked, he does have a wolf tooth that we are monitoring - but its not a problem when the bit is in. Ears, head etc been checked by vet.

He's obviously been banged in the mouth and is now taking the "p" however my patience is wearing very thin and I need to move forward past this, everyone who's tried or seen him - (yes I've asked for help) has ended up wrestling with him and he's been worse as a result.

I've tried putting stuff on the bit like molasses, honey, lemon juice, even holding an apple under the bit and encouraging him to take it and rewarding him if he does. After several weeks of this I'm now at a loss

What else can I do - any good ideas please?
 
Have you tried taking the bridle apart and then adding the bit from the side? (does it make sense?) Normally if you can put your fingers in the side of their mouths, they do open. Have you also tried a rubber snaffle, he might not like the cold of stainless steel or the thought of it clonking his teeth when you take it off?
Does he eat apples or carrots or polos?
 
Try leaving the headcollar on,remove noseband for now,use a happy mouth or similar undo the cheekpiece on the left,put bridle on over ears and then try to ease the bit in and do up the cheekpiece.Then give reward.
Its easier than undoing the bit as you have more to hold,this took several weeks with a horse purchased last year who was similar and he still has to be handled carefully.
 
I've tried dismantling the bridle, I've tried rubber bits, snaffles, happy mouth, straight bar, jointed - letting him chew or bite at the rubber bit whilst tempting with an apple underneath.
I've tried Just the bit and rewarding as soon as it goes in if it does, then starting again.
Headcollar on or off makes no difference, he's not scared of it, he just evades it. If I have a bit attached to the headpiece and undone it becomes a bit intimidating when he throws his head around if I can't keep hold of it.
Been doing, left side, right side, facing him, back to him, sideways on, mostly avoiding either being headbanged or swiped out by front legs - huge reach as part Lusitano
Feeling very incompetent now!
 
Also meant to mention, he doesn't like being wormed either, as soon as the tube actually goes in his mouth we have the same thing.

I bred him, he's been away and its since then the problem started.
 
iconique said:
Also meant to mention, he doesn't like being wormed either, as soon as the tube actually goes in his mouth we have the same thing.

I bred him, he's been away and its since then the problem started.
Click to expand...

Was he funny with wormer too before he was sent away?
 
Something must have happened when he was away :( Have you asked the people who looked after him if there was a situation they remember? How about having the dentist out so you can have a proper look. ps your signature brought a lump to my throat x
 
Thanks - have had other issues and drawing a blank to what caused it, he was meant to be doing exercise or turned out but was stuck in his box alot. Vet has checked teeth and we are watching a wolf tooth but vet doesn't think this is what is causing it although I'm considering getting it removed as a precaution.

I'm simply spending an hour each day mostly unsucessful trying to bribe him to open his mouth!
 
I bought a 'backed' youngster that turned out like this. B****y nightmare. The worst thing is the longer it goes on the more inwardly mad and frustrated you get, and you really can't lose your rag as it is completely the wrong thing to do. The only way I could get a bit in this one was to tie it up really short, stand on steps, and have the bit fastened on one side as you have done, and just persist in every possible way. I resorted to putting my hand in his mouth and trying to get his tongue so that he would have to open his mouth and then get the bit in. I can't tell you if he improved as he had another problem which would have taken about a year to sort, so decided to sell him warts and all as he was.

I wonder if you could work him bitless for a while to give him time to forget whatever has upset him?
 
What have they done to cause this,could he have caught his wolf tooth at some point.
The only thing I can think of that may help is to fill a syringe with something he really likes and feed it to him as often as you can so he wants to take the syringe into his mouth.Then coat a bit with the same taste and try again.
Giving him a break may help but
he is not likely to just forget learned behaviour.
I also second getting him sedated and a dentist to have a good look.
 
I don't know if it would work, but what about a small amount of Sedalin or some ACP tablets, just to remove the stress factor? Once he has done it a few times and realises its fun try without the ACP. It might be worth asking your vet for advise on this one. I have also got a youngster who is a massive 17.2hh at 2 years old :) yes really! She does everything except bit in mouth but at her age I wasn't too worried, but I have been thinking along the lines of a light sedative.
 
I think you could give up on the bit issue for a while, just do long reining and in hand grid-work, boring, but is gets him out, and loose work if you can do it.
Get a big fat syringe, and some try giving him apple pulp or something, start off with hand feeding him his grub at head height, so he gets used to your hands being near his mouth. Lots of polos slipped in the side of the mouth, anything to be given with lots of tickles/handling in the mouth area.
Work towards a bit-less solution, as the horse has almost certainly been traumatised, and you will have to work round it. The breakers are not going to be able to help you.
Lots of in hand work round his head with a pressure release halter,
 
Gilbey said:
I don't know if it would work, but what about a small amount of Sedalin or some ACP tablets, just to remove the stress factor? Once he has done it a few times and realises its fun try without the ACP. It might be worth asking your vet for advise on this one. I have also got a youngster who is a massive 17.2hh at 2 years old :) yes really! She does everything except bit in mouth but at her age I wasn't too worried, but I have been thinking along the lines of a light sedative.
Click to expand...

My 2yo is 18hh at the last measure :eek:
 
I've been working with him every day, when I get to a stage where I get something good, I then work him in hand. He's good in a headcollar fortunatley and enjoys his work. in hand, although we've been left some other issues when riden.

I love the idea of syringing something he likes, am going to pulp some apples now and give it a start.

Patience is something I'm trying to keep and sedation could be an option but I'll try this first!

With regard to teeth, I'm going to get them checked again and think the wolf tooth may be more of an issue that we originally thought?
 
You say you sent him away well what did the trainer say about this problem? They must have had to overcome it and I would have expected them to make mention to you.
 
How old is he? I only ask as my four year old has been really funny with his mouth this summer and it turns out hes got some cheek ulcers inside his mouth, a third incisor coming through and both wolf teeth coming in. A lot going on so its understandable hes a bit reluctant to be bitted and in the case of the cheek ulcers, lead sometimes. Maybe your boys going through a few changes inside his mouth?
 
So he went as a well brought up youngster comes back with several issues and a worm burden,It is such a shame for you especially with a homebred, I hope they know that you are not happy.
 
Have you tried just putting your fingers in the side of his mouth (right in the corner) and just holding it there for a while, not doing anything other than this? Obviously you have to be careful he doesn't catch your fingers. My baby (only 2) horse can be a bit suspicious of things going on about his mouth but, once he realises what you're doing doesn't hurt him he settles down - he did not want to be wormed this last time but my dad ended up just holding his fingers in one side of his mouth and pulling back the corner a bit and I managed (without any fuss) to get the syringe in the other side. Prior to this we'd had the legs waved at me in front and he'd tried to barge me etc etc

On the other side of the coin, my 20 year old horse has always been a bit of a swine to have his bit in, it doesn't matter what bit it is. He throw his head about a bit so i just generally wait until he stops pratting about and just hold the bit ready to go in. He'll then, eventually put it in no probs. Do you put one arm over his nose and the other holding the bit or do you put one arm (holding the headpiece) through his ears and guide the bit in? My pony bits this way - he opens his mouth for you though. With my horse I generallyput my wrm round his nose but sometimes wil try the other approach with arm through the ears - depends what mood he's in!

it is a tricky one but I am sure persistance will pay off in the end!
 
Yes, you can get your fingers in his mouth but he is really unhappy about it, putting arm over nose only results in both going upwards or being thrashed about.

I've worked in a headcollar with him again this afternoon and am going to try the suggestion of the syringe with something nice to build up his confidence, then wait until I can get his mouth checked out again.

Patience is going to have to perservere!
 
Welcome to my world, what you need is a Theresa, thanks to my friend I can know put a bit in my Welsh Sec d mouth, she talked goobleyguk to him He loved it and except the bit everytime, I have learnt just to swear softly and slowly at him and the same thing works, frightened him several times when he wouldn't release the bit, but made a big fuss over him when he did and he's slowly come good, so patience in big dollops is needed or my friend Theresa.:D:D:D:D:D
 
At the risk of being shot down in flames being all NH'y, my boy used to run to the back of the stable, turn his backside on me, clench his teeth, stick his head up in the air.

I initially worked on asking him to lower his head. Don't push his head down, put your hand between his ears from behind his ears if that makes any sense and just a slight pressure. I know it is difficult when they are big but if he chucks his head around just keep your hand in its position as best you can. Ultimately probably after having tried everything else he will lower his head. Probably not loads, but a bit. Immediately release for the right response, even if it is in the ballpark, and try again.

Once he gets the hang of that, when you are ready to start bridling, let the cheekpiece down on the side nearest you to about two or three lower than it should be, put the same hand on his poll that you were head lowering with and hold the headpiece in the same hand. By now he should have got the idea that just the weight of your hand on his poll means head lowered. Hold the mouthpiece between the fingers of the other hand, hold the bit under his mouth, use your thumb in the corner of his mouth and then once he opens his mouth draw the bit up using the hand that you are holding the headpiece in. I always give a treat afterwards and now he is fab, actually opens his mouth for the bit to go in.

Takes time though, but worth it in the end.
 
It may not be due to something that happened whilst he was away. We have a young stallion here who was absolutely fine until he decided he didn't like wormers and became very difficult. We have him bitted now but we used a head collar and a couple of really handy clips that attach the bit to the head collar. It took about two weeks of patience but now he's absolutely fine and quite enjoys having a bridle put on. He's still terrible to worm though!
 
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