Showjumping Help - getting horse to think for himself

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TWMD

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Bit of a woe is me post, but just looking for ideas for exercises to help!

My horse and I (although really it's just me) are rubbish at showjumping, we always have 1 or 2 poles in every single round we jump (90cm/1m). We are by no means dreadful in terms of style but that clear round is near impossible for us!

I think it mainly stems from me 'interfering' too much and always attempting to look for a stride, which I only get right about 80% of the time. So out of a course of 10 showjumps, we'll have 2 down :rolleyes:. I watch enviously as other riders who fudge the striding way more than I do still manage to jump clear. If we were to nail a clear round in the showjumping, we would pretty much always be in the top 5 at an event.

Because of my horrible control-freak rubbish riding, my poor little horse expects me to do everything for him, I've never really taught him to sort himself out. If I just sit quietly coming into a fence (not being a passenger but just leaving the striding to him), he will just run on too fast and either bury himself at the bottom or stand off a mile. You would think that after a few times of making this mistake he would learn, but he doesn't, he just gets faster and faster and I end up interfering again because I don't want him to scare himself :(

He jumps perfectly for my instructor because he can put him on the right spot. We've tried all the normal rhythm exercises, jumping on a circle, gridwork etc, and we are fine when the jumps are little but as soon as we come to jump a course over bigger fences it all goes to pot!

I'm now thinking I've ruined my brilliant horse as I've failed to teach him the basics of jumping for himself. My instructor says I need to stop trying to jump for him and let him do the jumping but we're not improving at all :( horse has bags of scope and is more than capable of jumping 1.20s but because of me we are stuck having 4 and 8 faults at 90cm :(

Does anyone have any ideas for how to teach him to think for himself a bit more around a course? Or how to transfer what we do in little exercises at home into jumping a course at a show?
 
I could I suppose, although I feel they don't really challenge me enough as we can pop round a 70/80cm course no trouble at all. It wouldn't really help with the over-reliance on me seeing a stride either I guess, and that's the habit I need to break. The height of the fences doesn't bother me, it's not a nerves thing. I just need to learn to ride properly!
 
I feel your pain. I'm absolutely awful at looking for my stride and if I don't see it then I hook and kill the canter resulting in a rubbish jump and it doesn't matter what the size of the fence is.

I've found two things that have helped over the years, firstly put a course of fences out just using poles on the floor. When you canter around in a good rhythmical canter without interfering at all going to a pole on the floor then start to put some height on them. With poles on the floor its not going to matter if you mess up. Gradually increase the height but only if you are not interfering with the stride.

The other thing that worked for me was an instructor that insisted that I looked at her on the approach to the jump and wasn't allowed to look at the jump for the last 3 strides at least. She was standing to the side of the fence so you had to turn your head away from the jump and couldn't sneak a peak. That way you couldn't adjust as you couldn't see where you were. It was very scary at first but it did help me. At some point I might be brave enough to try it again as I have reverted to fiddling.
 
I feel your pain about interfering! I also regularly miss into fences but luckily mine usually jumps clear and will sort me out if we're wrong...so I'm probably one of those annoying riders!

I don't really have many exercises to help (but I am really keen to see what others say) but I would say that you have definitely not ruined your horse! The fact that he actually gets over it even when you miss shows that to an extent he is thinking for himself - he's just having a pole! So many horses will just stop on a bad stride because they're not confident they can get over it. It sounds as though yours will still take matters into his own hands and get over it - but he's just not quite careful enough. I'd say as long as he is still taking you forward into fences, and even with a shocking miss still does his best to get over it then that can only be a positive thing.
 
bounce said:
I feel your pain. I'm absolutely awful at looking for my stride and if I don't see it then I hook and kill the canter resulting in a rubbish jump and it doesn't matter what the size of the fence is.

I've found two things that have helped over the years, firstly put a course of fences out just using poles on the floor. When you canter around in a good rhythmical canter without interfering at all going to a pole on the floor then start to put some height on them. With poles on the floor its not going to matter if you mess up. Gradually increase the height but only if you are not interfering with the stride.

The other thing that worked for me was an instructor that insisted that I looked at her on the approach to the jump and wasn't allowed to look at the jump for the last 3 strides at least. She was standing to the side of the fence so you had to turn your head away from the jump and couldn't sneak a peak. That way you couldn't adjust as you couldn't see where you were. It was very scary at first but it did help me. At some point I might be brave enough to try it again as I have reverted to fiddling.
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The looking to the side is an interesting one...I've not been brave enough to try it yet! I remember doing it when I was a kid riding ponies but it's one of those things (along with jumping bareback and without reins!) that gets scarier as you get older! I might see if my instructor will do this with me in our next lesson.
 
greenbean10 said:
I feel your pain about interfering! I also regularly miss into fences but luckily mine usually jumps clear and will sort me out if we're wrong...so I'm probably one of those annoying riders!

I don't really have many exercises to help (but I am really keen to see what others say) but I would say that you have definitely not ruined your horse! The fact that he actually gets over it even when you miss shows that to an extent he is thinking for himself - he's just having a pole! So many horses will just stop on a bad stride because they're not confident they can get over it. It sounds as though yours will still take matters into his own hands and get over it - but he's just not quite careful enough. I'd say as long as he is still taking you forward into fences, and even with a shocking miss still does his best to get over it then that can only be a positive thing.
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He really is a saint, and I can't complain about him at all! He isn't the most careful though and doesn't mind knocking poles- he probably thinks it's the aim of the game now! :p
 
Unfortunately not all scopey horses are careful, which is sooooooo frustrating. Your job is to get him into a good canter rhythm, get him onto a good line & keep him straight. His job is to get to the other side of the fence. If you stop doing all the setting up for him he will learn to think for himself, but it doesn’t come naturally to all horses.

Try putting a canter pole in front of the fence and concentrate on riding the pole, not the fence. Also make sure you are looking up way over the fence, not at the fence or on the ground, as this will lift his shoulder, which will give him better vision of it and also stop him burying himself.
 
TWMD said:
The looking to the side is an interesting one...I've not been brave enough to try it yet! I remember doing it when I was a kid riding ponies but it's one of those things (along with jumping bareback and without reins!) that gets scarier as you get older! I might see if my instructor will do this with me in our next lesson.
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I don't look to the side, I look for the fence, line up with the fence, then look at the tree tops. If I look at the fence it is a disaster. If I get lined up and simply keep the canter and feel for the horse adjusting then it seems to go a whole lot better.

If I am in an indoor school I do all the lining up then take a soft focus up and around to where we are going. But don't look at the fence!
 
Do you know how you get better? You practice more. I use two poles on the ground now set at around 6 strides and then go down on 4/5/6/7/8 and try and nail it every time. I then on same single poles practice how far away I can count my strides down. My aim is to be able to count that pole down from 10 strides away without interfering and be able to do it every time. Currently I can nail it from 3 strides away. I will then canter round and just try and nail that pole 10x. If you miss at the pole you count from 1 again. No wear and tear on the horse and just discipline from the rider. Just make sure you don't cheat and shut down the canter.

As for interfering less, the only way you will do this is if your horse is disciplined which goes back to the poles exercises. The horse doesn't run off after a jump, doesn't get quicker into a jump. If you want to increase the stride it is off the leg and if you half halt it happens.
 
Ooh I like LECs pole exercise. I’m nowhere near your height but I am working a lot on jumping in a rhythm and getting to the fence in the right canter.

My horse is actually perfectly able to sort his own strides. That’s come through lots of pole work and leaving him to sort his legs out. I just do direction and speed/impulsion.

The problem we have is if I interfere! We’re fixing that through us both moving forward properly but def me looking up and away in the last few strides. That’s helped massively.
 
I had a lesson on my cob the other day to improve her fitness but we were working over a figure of 8 with the fences at probably 50cm maybe less and once straight to the fence i had to close my eyes and count our rhythm out loud, this worked great for her as i was fiddling too much being used to a 16.2hh that needs a little more work to keep the energy up. My cob found it much better as i left her to it and she has a great rhythm and just needed to be able to pop, i was also doing this on dressage length as we were treating it as a flat lesson.
 
I've done all sorts of exercises with poles on the floor, including the lengthening/shortening exercise, and I can judge to a pole/small fence fine. I know it's a mental thing, I am a complete perfectionist and the idea of making mistakes, even if it is so I improve, scares me. But that's a whole other mindset/mental attitude thing!

I feel I need to relax more, I happily sail round the xc because I'm having fun, not worrying about knocking poles and it just comes naturally. I will definitely try the looking up/away on approach to the fence, can anybody suggest a catchy song I can sing to keep my mind off faffing around for a stride?!

As a last resort, maybe I just need to take a hefty swig from a hipflask before I go in the ring! :p
 
@TWMD

Ok here's what we need:

1) a video of you doing low courses, preferably done well.

2) a video of you doing a bigger course and having issues.

I appreciate your description and the fact that your trainer is actively involved means I don't want to step on their toes but how each of us mentally imagine you to look can vary wildly.

So please let us see some actual footage so we can comment correctly to help.

Em
 
Are you sure you have 'the right canter'? I was taught with larger courses to get that nice, bouncy, rolling canter and just sit that to the jumps - horse can do the rest. At lower heights, the quality of the canter doesn't matter so much...
 
BunnyDog said:
@TWMD

Ok here's what we need:

1) a video of you doing low courses, preferably done well.

2) a video of you doing a bigger course and having issues.

I appreciate your description and the fact that your trainer is actively involved means I don't want to step on their toes but how each of us mentally imagine you to look can vary wildly.

So please let us see some actual footage so we can comment correctly to help.

Em
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Em beat me to it. Being able to see the actual problem is far more helpful than a written description.

I know most Brits think North American show hunters are stupid, but we *are* very, very good at generating the "right" canter to find the "perfect" distance *without it looking like we are doing anything at all*. We pick a rhythm and stick with it from first fence to closing circle. Adjustments are done in a whisper---if we obviously pull or kick, we lose points. If we are slightly too close, or slightly too far off the base, at one jump out of eight, we don't get a ribbon. If we have a rail, we automatically score 40%. We fail.

I know a million exercises to help with rhythm and finding distances, but without seeing you ride, I can't recommend which one or two might work for you and your horse.

Are you turning early off an inside rein, causing the horse to fade out and the distance to fall away?

Are you turning and moving up and riding past the distance?

Are you dropping your eyes down at the base? Jumping ahead? Not releasing enough? Not letting your horse finish his arc before sitting up?

Are you alternately "picking and kicking" all the way down on a long approach?

I have exercises for each of those things. Just need to know which might be appropriate. :)
 
TWMD said:
Because of my horrible control-freak rubbish riding, my poor little horse expects me to do everything for him, I've never really taught him to sort himself out. If I just sit quietly coming into a fence (not being a passenger but just leaving the striding to him), he will just run on too fast and either bury himself at the bottom or stand off a mile. You would think that after a few times of making this mistake he would learn, but he doesn't, he just gets faster and faster and I end up interfering again because I don't want him to scare himself :(
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Agree with our American friends, that it would be helpful to see what is going on. As far as the horse goes, however, one thing I have found useful in the past is loose jumping down grids - playing with the distances such that the horse has to learn to read them and sort itself out. Obviously this does mean access to certain facilities - large long sided indoor for starters, plus a helper or two, one of whom needs to be adept at reading what the horse is doing and changing the distances/type of fence in order to educate and not frighten and to improve the actual jump.
 
Try using a quiet horse (book a lesson in a riding school before doing this with your own horse) set up a grid of low fences, tie a knot in your reins and ride through it. You can't pick at the horse without the reins so you'll learn to let the jumps come to you.

You could also go to a good riding school with well qualified instructors and just explain your problem. They'll have a lot of experience with this sort of problem. They are trained to teach, unlike a lot of private instructors.
 
Also just to come at it from a different view point, are you worried because you are missing him due to you interfering, or is it because you think that riders should leave the horse to sort themselves out?

If it's the first I'd say that it's worth just practising your eye - then you won't miss so much and you'll likely have less poles! I don't see how you getting the stride right (through interfering) 80% of the time can be a bad thing ...just need to get it right the other 19.999% and accept that everyone misses at some point - and if you have a pole then you have a pole!

When it comes to leaving the horse alone to sort itself out I'd say that's okay under a certain height...but once you get to those bigger oxers in the bigger classes I definitely wouldn't want to be leaving my horse to it - and he will take a miss like a champ! You've already said that when you leave him to it he runs or buries himself, so maybe he is just a horse that needs a little bit more help from the rider (not your fault!) and if that's the case then I don't know why you'd need to change that. When you're jumping bigger classes you'll want to be able to place the horse anyway. I think the 'leaving the horse to do it' viewpoint is fine under a certain height but you don't see many pros leaving their horse to sort themselves out!
 
Hi all, thank you so much for all your suggestions and tips! Please don't take this the wrong way but I'm not sure I feel comfortable posting a video of myself on the internet, I'm probably far too thin-skinned! *hangs head in embarrassment*
I will however take all your advice on board. I have also booked another 2 lessons, one with my normal instructor and one with a new instructor to see if she has any new insights.

Determined to give myself a kick up the proverbial and learn to ride my horse properly! The best ones always challenge you eh?!
 
TWMD said:
Hi all, thank you so much for all your suggestions and tips! Please don't take this the wrong way but I'm not sure I feel comfortable posting a video of myself on the internet, I'm probably far too thin-skinned! *hangs head in embarrassment*
I will however take all your advice on board. I have also booked another 2 lessons, one with my normal instructor and one with a new instructor to see if she has any new insights.

Determined to give myself a kick up the proverbial and learn to ride my horse properly! The best ones always challenge you eh?!
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I'd feel the exact same way !! Sounds like you are already doing a great job but def a new instructor can be helpful just a fresh pair of eyes! xx
 
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