tabithakat64
Well-Known Member
I would recommend Richard Maxwell's books too
Help, help! MD wants to have a go at Parelli!
- Thread starter JAK
- Start date
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Well, I think Max is good too, and he knows that.
I have recently been shocked by the amount of stress I saw inflicted on a horse by someone who I'd always believed to have a "gentle" training approach. So now I would only recommend people I have seen first-hand, rather than those I have heard about from others.
If your friend is really insistent on trying some NH then I will put my cards on the table and recommend that she looks into Silversand Natural Horsemanship. Forget 7 games, forget wiggling ropes with clips on, I find his approach to be very "NH" but very common sense - and everything is closely linked to ridden work. This man used to be a senior Parelli instructor, but when he left a lot of us followed, because he had always been the one we liked best, and now he can do his own thing he is very different to Parelli, very non-confrontational. I'm not going to turn this into some sort of advert, but much cheaper, much softer and IMHO much better for the horses and people.
I think Parelli gets mentioned with a lot of project horses, not necessarily because Parelli caused them to become projects, but also because people seem to try Parelli as a last resort. So you get people trying to learn something new on Fluffy the Firebreathing Fjord - and that's a recipe for disaster. Anyone trying to learn something new should start off easy first shouldn't they? It's just common sense.
If a horse is properly trained with an NH approach then there shouldn't be any conflict caused by non-NH people handling or riding them. I keep my 3 at my friend's yard, and we have the luxury of "staff" who do things like turnout etc when needed. For that all I do is warn them to let my lot have a bit of rope when led, not to grab them under the chin. This is because mine have been taught to back from pressure on the nosebands of their halters. For ridden work, if someone else rides then they can ride in a bridle with a bit. The whole point of the work that goes into riding in the halter is to produce soft riding horses - it prepares them for wearing a bit. So, while I can ride bitless, it's not some sort of crusade I inflict on others and I use a bit sometimes. I would be unlikely to let anyone start using things like martingales, drop nosebands, more complicated bits... but that is because I've put a fair bit of time into training or re-training my horses so they don't need them. That's just two examples, but what I'm saying is that an NH approach should be consistent with simply producing a well mannered, confident and safe horse. It isn't an excuse to spend 2 years "playing games" with a perfectly healthy horse in an arena, unfortunately that is what some people make of Parelli. But don't you wonder what they'd be doing if they hadn't discovered Parelli? Don't you think they would find another set of reasons why they didn't ride?
I did make a lot of mistakes in my early Parelli days, and both me my horses suffered for that a bit. With more varied experience I have to say I am committed to using the NH approach I have learnt with all horses, but that doesn't make me any better or worse than someone with say a BHS background, it just makes me a little bit different.
I have recently been shocked by the amount of stress I saw inflicted on a horse by someone who I'd always believed to have a "gentle" training approach. So now I would only recommend people I have seen first-hand, rather than those I have heard about from others.
If your friend is really insistent on trying some NH then I will put my cards on the table and recommend that she looks into Silversand Natural Horsemanship. Forget 7 games, forget wiggling ropes with clips on, I find his approach to be very "NH" but very common sense - and everything is closely linked to ridden work. This man used to be a senior Parelli instructor, but when he left a lot of us followed, because he had always been the one we liked best, and now he can do his own thing he is very different to Parelli, very non-confrontational. I'm not going to turn this into some sort of advert, but much cheaper, much softer and IMHO much better for the horses and people.
I think Parelli gets mentioned with a lot of project horses, not necessarily because Parelli caused them to become projects, but also because people seem to try Parelli as a last resort. So you get people trying to learn something new on Fluffy the Firebreathing Fjord - and that's a recipe for disaster. Anyone trying to learn something new should start off easy first shouldn't they? It's just common sense.
If a horse is properly trained with an NH approach then there shouldn't be any conflict caused by non-NH people handling or riding them. I keep my 3 at my friend's yard, and we have the luxury of "staff" who do things like turnout etc when needed. For that all I do is warn them to let my lot have a bit of rope when led, not to grab them under the chin. This is because mine have been taught to back from pressure on the nosebands of their halters. For ridden work, if someone else rides then they can ride in a bridle with a bit. The whole point of the work that goes into riding in the halter is to produce soft riding horses - it prepares them for wearing a bit. So, while I can ride bitless, it's not some sort of crusade I inflict on others and I use a bit sometimes. I would be unlikely to let anyone start using things like martingales, drop nosebands, more complicated bits... but that is because I've put a fair bit of time into training or re-training my horses so they don't need them. That's just two examples, but what I'm saying is that an NH approach should be consistent with simply producing a well mannered, confident and safe horse. It isn't an excuse to spend 2 years "playing games" with a perfectly healthy horse in an arena, unfortunately that is what some people make of Parelli. But don't you wonder what they'd be doing if they hadn't discovered Parelli? Don't you think they would find another set of reasons why they didn't ride?
I did make a lot of mistakes in my early Parelli days, and both me my horses suffered for that a bit. With more varied experience I have to say I am committed to using the NH approach I have learnt with all horses, but that doesn't make me any better or worse than someone with say a BHS background, it just makes me a little bit different.
Doublethyme
Well-Known Member
JAK - if Black Baggage is as you say she is, on a serious note, I would say please make sure your daughter is careful if she wants to follow parelli or NH style tactics. Even the pros are careful with the really dominant horses.
My own mare is a bit like that and when we had an experienced (L3 I believe) ex-Parelli, now Silversand follower at our yard who gave lessons, I made sounds about possibly having lessons with her and she went very white around the gills and mumbled something about "having to get the round pen out" and was obviously paniked about working with my dominant little madam. She had given lessons to others just in the school and was very arrogant and dismissive of everyone and everything else, till she thought she had to work with my mare (who I don't particularly have a problem with using traditional methods) At that point I decided not to bother! I tend to use traditional methods and a bit of NH stuff (just picked up here and there, not learnt as such) and it works for us.
My mare would be exactly like Blackbaggage - looks at you as if to say "Eh! What are you doing now you mad old bag!!" Trouble with Parelli, they market it as all soft and fluffy, but for the dominant horses they up the pressure to a violent degree to get what they want.
Was watching H&CTV again last night and thought I would give the Parelli programme anther go - it just makes me cringe every time, such dramatics, its almost like watching a soap opera! Linda P was bouncing around on some poor horse looking like she was just about to be ejected into the air and I don't know if it was coincidence, but every horse featured last night, looked weirdly muscled to me - almost disconnected across the hind end - if that's what Parelli does, I don't want a bar of it!
And as for the blooming music - its like listening to a Danielle Steel movie.....!!!!
My own mare is a bit like that and when we had an experienced (L3 I believe) ex-Parelli, now Silversand follower at our yard who gave lessons, I made sounds about possibly having lessons with her and she went very white around the gills and mumbled something about "having to get the round pen out" and was obviously paniked about working with my dominant little madam. She had given lessons to others just in the school and was very arrogant and dismissive of everyone and everything else, till she thought she had to work with my mare (who I don't particularly have a problem with using traditional methods) At that point I decided not to bother! I tend to use traditional methods and a bit of NH stuff (just picked up here and there, not learnt as such) and it works for us.
My mare would be exactly like Blackbaggage - looks at you as if to say "Eh! What are you doing now you mad old bag!!" Trouble with Parelli, they market it as all soft and fluffy, but for the dominant horses they up the pressure to a violent degree to get what they want.
Was watching H&CTV again last night and thought I would give the Parelli programme anther go - it just makes me cringe every time, such dramatics, its almost like watching a soap opera! Linda P was bouncing around on some poor horse looking like she was just about to be ejected into the air and I don't know if it was coincidence, but every horse featured last night, looked weirdly muscled to me - almost disconnected across the hind end - if that's what Parelli does, I don't want a bar of it!
And as for the blooming music - its like listening to a Danielle Steel movie.....!!!!
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
I agree, that ties in with what I said above re if you are learning anything you should start with an easy horse.
Doublethyme, I so agree with you about Linda's riding. And it's quite amazing that they don't realise what a bad impression she gives of their whole programme.
I'd just like to say two other things... First, please all don't assume all NH is the same as Parelli, it isn't and many good NH trainers suffer from the "Parelli" bad publicity.
Second, the lady mentioned in Doublethyme's post may claim to be a Silversand follower, but she certainly is not edorsed to teach that approach. What she chooses to do (or not LOL!) off her own bat is one thing, but she is neither a Parelli or Silversand instructor. (And they are two very different methods, believe me).
Doublethyme, I so agree with you about Linda's riding. And it's quite amazing that they don't realise what a bad impression she gives of their whole programme.
I'd just like to say two other things... First, please all don't assume all NH is the same as Parelli, it isn't and many good NH trainers suffer from the "Parelli" bad publicity.
Second, the lady mentioned in Doublethyme's post may claim to be a Silversand follower, but she certainly is not edorsed to teach that approach. What she chooses to do (or not LOL!) off her own bat is one thing, but she is neither a Parelli or Silversand instructor. (And they are two very different methods, believe me).
Kelly Marks
Well-Known Member
Hi
Kelly Marks here 'the most patronising and irratating person on the whole planet' - what - more than Victoria Beckham?! Jade Goody? John McCririck? Crikey there must be millions in this for me - anyone know a good agent?
Kelly Marks here 'the most patronising and irratating person on the whole planet' - what - more than Victoria Beckham?! Jade Goody? John McCririck? Crikey there must be millions in this for me - anyone know a good agent?
Talan
Well-Known Member
Well, I suppose it must be nice to be famous for something, even if it is for being irritating!
I agree with those above who have suggested going for something less confrontational than Parelli to build a relationship. I'm not sure about Kelly's training being regarded as NH - I didn't think they applied that label to themselves, and most NH teachers don't use pressure halters.
I always feel a bit hesitant about Monty Roberts and his theories, as they appear to be based on some fabricated tales of him studying desert wild horses as a child. Also all his teaching is based on join up and I don't think most people should be mucking about with that.
I think Parelli attracts so many people because it lays everything out simply in an abc approach so they think it will be easy to work through. With the other NH trainers you tend to have to use a bit more independant and creative thought and be prepared to study a bit more for yourself.
I agree with those above who have suggested going for something less confrontational than Parelli to build a relationship. I'm not sure about Kelly's training being regarded as NH - I didn't think they applied that label to themselves, and most NH teachers don't use pressure halters.
I always feel a bit hesitant about Monty Roberts and his theories, as they appear to be based on some fabricated tales of him studying desert wild horses as a child. Also all his teaching is based on join up and I don't think most people should be mucking about with that.
I think Parelli attracts so many people because it lays everything out simply in an abc approach so they think it will be easy to work through. With the other NH trainers you tend to have to use a bit more independant and creative thought and be prepared to study a bit more for yourself.