help! how do i get my horse rounded and accepting the bit??

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em21xx

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he was broken in to be driven in a trap and its taken me a year and a half to get him properly cantering. we've entered some small dressage competitions this season and i'm losing a lot of marks through him sticking his nose out and and running through the corners. i've tried side reins and he just doesnt respond. any ideas??
 
I would do tons of transitions - walk to trot, back down again, etc. Lots of work on a circle to help the hind legs come under and therefore help him to balance. Does he lean or fight the contact? You could try not to rely on the reins too much but to use your legs to steer if he accepts that OK. Have you played around with the contact - some horses prefer a light contact, but others prefer a 'firmer feel' and then a lighter contact once they are working into the hand. To be honest, it can all be about patience. Horses that are broken to drive tend to be quite set in their ways. Try a few different approaches and you never know, one might work. Reward every step that you feel is an improvement. Good luck!
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Grr this is what annoys me about some people who break to drive. A driven horse should be able to do everything that you can do under saddle under harness. This includes latteral work and canter! I'd just keep working him like you would a "normal" horse, getting anything truly round can take patience.
 
he leans on my hands sometimes and refuses to bend at all. he accepts the legs absolutely fine but just doesnt take that much notice!! i guess its just going to be hard work an determination!
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I found doing lots and lots of circles of all different sizes helps, such as 10metre circles in every corner and also slow the trot right down and keep the pace constant. It made a big difference to my horse once we slowed the trot right down, when you try the circling just consentrate on riding them perfectly using your legs, keep a contact but don't try to get his head in with your reins, the idea is that he will do it naturally. goodluck
 
What bit are you using and do you ever lunge him? I am a firm believer of lunging with the Pessoa type training aid because it helps them stretch over their back, encourages them to work from behind into an outline. I agree with lots of transitions, meaning transitions within a pace and from one pace to another.
My trainer says lots of transitions means 50-100 not 10-20 in a schooling session
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Sounds impossible but it's not
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Yes i agree, it takes time with alot of patients but the slower the better & again lots of transitions & be consitant, i found lessons have really helped me - i have a 5yr that i bought last year & broke myself. But i never new it would be this hard (we have our ups and downs) but it sure is a long slow & hard process. I know it will pay off, i look at where shes at now & its just goes to show. So keep at it he will soon find his comfort & get the idea of how to work. I did also find the possoa helped alot (not a fan of side reins) but each to there own. Good luck
 
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he accepts the legs absolutely fine but just doesnt take that much notice!!

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Hhhhmm... I think there's some confusion in what you think "accepting your leg" is???
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as you've just contradicted yourself - saying he accepts your leg fine but then saying that he takes no notice...

To accept your leg the horse must make room for it and listen to the aids that it gives -

IMHO I'd go right back to basics with your horse - plenty of walk/halt transitions, ensuring that when you ask for walk, the hind leg snaps into action and the horse steps under and into a steady contact - if he doesn't respond then stop and repeat and if he then doesn't step under give him a tickle with your whip to back up your aids and insist on pushing him forward into a jiggy trot - to over emphasize that you want him to go forward... Repeat a million times and then move onto walk trot! LOL!!!

RE: the falling in on circles/corners this is a balance issue - working on the transitions and straightness will help but you must also ensure that your inside leg is supporting him so that he doesn't fall in ...

Back to basics all the way - there's no quick fixes I'm afraid.
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Kate x
 
have you tried the preasure/ release, horses respond to preasure, so try gently pulling down 1 side of the rein gently wiggling as soon as he comes down release the preasure let go immediatly, let him think a minute, praise him and ask again, it might take some time, then try the other rein, once you can do both reins individual ask for both at the same time, you could start this on the ground before you try it in the saddle. hope you manage to do it.
 
yeah, this is the first method i tried and everytime i released he snatched his head and leant on my hands again! thanks anyway
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when he snatches keep hold of the reins so he gets jarred in the mouth he,l soon learn that by snatching he,l get jarred, in the mouth he,s then in control then of the jarring.
 
I had a similar problem with my section D, but after purchasing a pair of Bungees from Ride Away;
http://www.rideaway.co.uk/index2.php3?se...amp;catcode2=EL
I have never looked back, they are brilliant. They encourage the horse to lower the head and carry it in a natural position, but still allowing the flexibility to stretch when unbalanced. Lots of sitting trot will help him get his balance, try not to ask for canter until he is balanced and comfortable in trot.
I have been there, not matter what other people say, it is far from being easy & will take time to overcome. You can use this for everything apart from jumping, I just started off hacking out in them because that’s is where my boy felt most comfortable.
Good luck, don’t give up it will all be worth it soon.
 
Does he move forward freely? That's the first step - riding himinto the bridle. I'd forget trying to get his head down and get him moving forward first...
 
somedays he does and then other days he hangs back and tries to get away with as little as possible! thanks for the advice!
 
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Does he move forward freely? That's the first step - riding himinto the bridle. I'd forget trying to get his head down and get him moving forward first...

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Ditto this, working in an outline does not come from the head and the neck, he needs to work from underneath you. I would work on getting him going forwards and responding to your leg aids. Then you can worry about where his head is. I'm not a fan of the pessoa though I do use side reins - you may find that these help? You could also ride in them (but make sure they are loose and you have someone with you)
 
ive been trying to work him in side reins for about 4 months now and we're not getting any further. ill give the leg aids a bit more attention and see how we get on! thanks!
 
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Does he move forward freely? That's the first step - riding himinto the bridle. I'd forget trying to get his head down and get him moving forward first...

[/ QUOTE ] I'm with this. People often focus on the head when actually, the problem can lie with quite the opposite end of the horse - their quarters. To explain, the nose-out issue may well be symptomatic of other balance issues, and judging by what you've said about corners, I'm tempted to go with this. If he's working from behind - that is, really stepping under himself with his hind legs, then he should begin to lift his back, and as he lifts his back, his head will drop into place. However, pulling his head into place (by whatever means) won't automatically mean that he will, in turn, lift his back and then engage his quarters properly. He'll just carry on with his head tied down, his back hollowed and a very unhappy look on his face. Fighting with the head is like treating the symptoms, instead of curing the problem, and if lack of hind-end engagement is the problem, the best place to start is pretty much what others have said - go back to basics and get him actively moving forwards when you ask for it, but for this it's probably better to have someone on the ground helping you, since reading about engagement and collection via the internet will only get you as far as the theoretical side of it.

As an aside, engaging the hind quarters and lifting the back asks them to use the same muscles in a slightly different way, so it'll be hard for him, not only to develop those muscles further, but also to break out of a well-formed habit. As he gets better at it he'll more and more readily start to move into the correct shape as he warms up.
 
I would make sure that he is going freely forwards in a good rythmn before asking him to come into an outline, without forward and rythmn you will just create a false outline and a hollow back. To begin with, don't even worry where the head is, even if it is up in the air, just keep pushing forward, you can control the speed by controlling your rising, counting (ie one...........two............one............two) helps you to keep control of the rythmn. Set yourself small goals and be prepared for it to take time - dressage is character building!

I really would not resort to the bungie, at least not until you have got both the above, but then saying that I am not fond of that particular gadget.
 
I totally agree with other posters that tucking head in is not what you should be focusing on. The horse needs to engage back end, move forward into a contact, rather than being roped in at the front and not actually working properly into a contact from behind. Think back end to front end, not front end to back end.
I think balance and rythmn are your main issues here. If he is falling out/running unbalanced around corners I would ride IN from the track (on an inner track a couple of feet away from fence). That way he will have to balance himself more without 'leaning' toward fence to hold himself up.
I'd do a lot of gentle flexions of head and neck to outside and inside then straight after each one to break up stiffness.
You need to work on getting a good steady consistent rythmn and transitions will help develop the back end and balance.
If he goes around nose poked don't worry yet, just focus on the above.
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