Help Humphrey

As lots of others have said, there must be something else going on here...

I understand that any organisation can only make limited comments about a live investigation, but surely given the public interest in this, and the fact that it has made it onto forums and facebook would mean that some sort of public statement from them would be expected?

I too would be very concerned about the apparent lack of documented procedure on the day of the seizure. Surely it would be in the charities interests to ensure that there is an appropriate paper trail for something like a seizure? And surely the SSPCA could at least then make the comment that 'correct SSPCA procedures, as published in X, preceding and during the seizure were followed and fully documented'. No specific comment, but would answer a lot of questions about whether the seizure was really legitimate...

Even if they were justified taking an admittedly pretty poor horse, seemingly not producing documentation, and the smirking officer, seriously calls their procedures into question...

As for those who say wait it out - I would be absolutely beside myself if my horse was in unknown care for even a day. Presumably they wouldn't have asked about feed and turnout regime, or allergies etc to minimise moving stress?
 
OAP65 said:
I would like Help Humphrey to come back and state TRUTHFULLY if they or anyone on their yard has had previous contact with SSPCA regarding any of their horses' welfare (going back, say 8 or 9 months).
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What is it to do with them if others have had previous contact?
 
MillyMoomie said:
Natch I really am not about to explain it again!
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Well, no. There is no need to.

The owner will know why the horses were removed, there has also been an interview where it would again have been explained very clearly.
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This is a statement that concurs with the SSPCA quote in the article, but doesn't concur with the person(s) who are appealing for help. At the moment we of HHO don't know which is true, so there is bound to be debate and speculation.

You are thinking of the charity commission.
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Thank you, yes I was.
 
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piebaldsparkle said:
What is it to do with them if others have had previous contact?
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Two horses seized, one livery owners, one other not livery owners, I was asking if there has been previous contact with SSPCA regarding both horses' welfare going back 8 pr 9 months) prior to being seized. Maybe I am not explaining myself very well.

Oh and by the way, its only been dark for about half an hour :p
 
I haven't had any dealings with the sspca or the rspca personally, however, I have reported some one for having a very lame horse turned out in the field and I have watched numerous programmes about it. There was also an article in one of the monthly horse magazines following the rspca.
In every incident, unless the horse was in an EXTREMELY bad way, the owners are given a warning to improve to start with, they don't just take the animals. They also have a warrant to seize and always give the owner paperwork. They have to follow procedures or they would be stuffed if and when the case went to court. They would also collect photographic evidence of the horse and its surroundings.

I'm sorry but you are not getting the whole story imo
 
Kallibear said:
people who starved him (the loaners) no longer had him. The SSPCA won't be able to do any more than a stern talking-to and keep an eye on any new horses. They would have done that if asked. They wouldn't even have known about it though if noone told them! What else could you expect them to do? Remove the horses that didn't even belong to the loaners and were no longer in their care?!
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i mean at the time the horse was being starved, not afterwards!
 
Having read through this thread something has jumped out at me.
The SSPCA were acting on a complaint from someone. It isn't like they just wandered in & thought 'Ooh I'll take those 2 horses'
Something about the situation with Humphey, be it his condition, how hard he was worked whilst looking thin and/or what was being done to him in the 40 minutes they were loading him concerned another horse owner/bystander so much they contacted the SSPCA.
This is the thing for me. If this person had posted a 'today I reported someone to the SSPCA' giving their reasons why they had done what they had done the replies would've been congratulating them & condemning the owner ;)

I'm not 100% sure how I feel about this story. Because of what I've put above I don't feel like we are getting the full story.

That said poor/thin/lean no horse of mine would've gone on a fast, hard 5 hour ride looking like that :(
Horses can drop weight, for whatever reason it means they aren't getting enough calories to be ignorant to this & treat the animal as a machine expecting them to work very hard is a welfare issue.
 
If that video has been taken an hour or so after a very long hard ride, it would not surprise me to see it lean and tucked up. A TB of his age at that time of year is unlikely to be carrying any surplus weight. In fact even after several weeks of Dr Green, there are a couple at our yard that still look pretty rubbish and we have good grazing!

Something is wrong here and I believe OP is holding back on us with some very important information. Nothing is going to happen to this horse while the investigation takes place - other than rack up a substantial bill for the owner! Time will tell so lets just sit back and wait.
 
Hi there is also a facebook page set up to help humphrey,
911 likes in a few days it has been up...please all go on and like the page to help spread the word more x
 
Angelbones said:
That's a beautiful video of a girl who apparently adores her horse and her horse appears to love her back and be in good health. What are we not seeing? Surely somebody has been in touch with a solicitor etc? I'd like to know more - can't find anything on google - does anyone have any further knowledge of this? If it is as cut and dried as in the video then I'm appalled.
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blackbess said:
How do we know "normal Procedure" wasn't adhered to?
We have only heard one side of the story, as the rider is avoiding answering certain questions.

This is what I make of it, The SSPCA were called to an incident, as is quoted in The Scotsman newspaper:


The SSPCA arrived after it took the girl 40 mins to load the horse, she refused to remove the horse from the transport, so it could be examined, so the Inspector followed her back to where the horse is normally kept. From what I can see from the video a vet and Police were also in attendance.

Humphrey is now under the care of the Scottish SPCA at their Welfare Centre at Balerno, Edinburgh.

I imagine whatever happen must have taken place after the ride and at time of the loading?
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Hi, the reason she did not want to unload the animal is pretty understandable. Humphrey does not like loading into the box, after 40 minutes he was pretty stressed out but she had him loaded. The last thing the girl wanted to do was unload him and then make him go through it all again causing even more distress to him. Hope this clears it up for you
 
I read this entire thread. At first I was like no way. How dare they. Then I got to the part about loading and abuse allegations. Something isn't right. Horse is too thin to be doing the worked asked. I've spent my life with TB's. Have an 18yo one myself. And while no he should not have been seized on condition alone, I think condition is only part of what's going on here. Yes I know how TB's can get gaunt looking after a big day out. I took my ex racer to a show just for an under saddle class. He was a gentelman for me but I took him home before my class even started. He was not enjoying himself and he didn't have to do this. I have others that go to shows and love it. While Frank was drawn up he did not look like a hat rack. His neck, for instance, did not become gaunt.

I also am taking on board other comments from those that were there. And enough of we only just had spring here in Scotland. I've yet to be able to put the med wt rugs away here. An odd nice day. I had to feed more than normal for quite some time. Even 3 meals a day for some. The feeding in the forage just hasn't been there as in past years. So you know you have to do what you have to do. Being a little lean is fine. Being lean and doing what was asked of this horse was not. You may well love your horse but you did not take his welfare to account on the day. I would also like to know about this poor bay mare.

As far as Facebook, well I have a non blood family member with a page on there. Suffice to say it's not as it appears. It's amazing how distorted the truth can become.

Terri
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
I read this entire thread. At first I was like no way. How dare they. Then I got to the part about loading and abuse allegations. Something isn't right. Horse is too thin to be doing the worked asked. I've spent my life with TB's. Have an 18yo one myself. And while no he should not have been seized on condition alone, I think condition is only part of what's going on here. Yes I know how TB's can get gaunt looking after a big day out. I took my ex racer to a show just for an under saddle class. He was a gentelman for me but I took him home before my class even started. He was not enjoying himself and he didn't have to do this. I have others that go to shows and love it. While Frank was drawn up he did not look like a hat rack. His neck, for instance, did not become gaunt.

I also am taking on board other comments from those that were there. And enough of we only just had spring here in Scotland. I've yet to be able to put the med wt rugs away here. An odd nice day. I had to feed more than normal for quite some time. Even 3 meals a day for some. The feeding in the forage just hasn't been there as in past years. So you know you have to do what you have to do. Being a little lean is fine. Being lean and doing what was asked of this horse was not. You may well love your horse but you did not take his welfare to account on the day. I would also like to know about this poor bay mare.

As far as Facebook, well I have a non blood family member with a page on there. Suffice to say it's not as it appears. It's amazing how distorted the truth can become.

Terri
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Took the words out my mouth ;) Exactly what i was thinking! Something is not adding up here at all ;)
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
I would also like to know about this poor bay mare.

Terri
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She was the reason the SSPCA was called. She was truely emaciated. I've never seems such a thin horse in real life. We (and others) spoke to the girl on board (a novice who'd been told by the owner and YO that the ride would do the horse good) and said the horse looked like that as 'it lived out all winter' etc. We tried to find out where she was from (didn't realise at the time it was linked to the chestnut) so we could report it but someone got there before us.

The chestnut literally spend 5hrs cantering and jogging sideways. The rider must have been knackered,never mind the horse! Apparently it was removed because it was lame on 3 legs and various people have been asked to give witness to it (and the bay) being on the ride.
 
Kallibear said:
She was the reason the SSPCA was called. She was truely emaciated. I've never seems such a thin horse in real life. We (and others) spoke to the girl on board (a novice who'd been told by the owner and YO that the ride would do the horse good) and said the horse looked like that as 'it lived out all winter' etc. We tried to find out where she was from (didn't realise at the time it was linked to the chestnut) so we could report it but someone got there before us.

The chestnut literally spend 5hrs cantering and jogging sideways. The rider must have been knackered,never mind the horse! Apparently it was removed because it was lame on 3 legs and various people have been asked to give witness to it (and the bay) being on the ride.
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But was it lame? Saying it was 'Apparently lame on 3 legs' doesn't prove it was.
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
I read this entire thread. At first I was like no way. How dare they. Then I got to the part about loading and abuse allegations. Something isn't right. Horse is too thin to be doing the worked asked. I've spent my life with TB's. Have an 18yo one myself. And while no he should not have been seized on condition alone, I think condition is only part of what's going on here. Yes I know how TB's can get gaunt looking after a big day out. I took my ex racer to a show just for an under saddle class. He was a gentelman for me but I took him home before my class even started. He was not enjoying himself and he didn't have to do this. I have others that go to shows and love it. While Frank was drawn up he did not look like a hat rack. His neck, for instance, did not become gaunt.

I also am taking on board other comments from those that were there. And enough of we only just had spring here in Scotland. I've yet to be able to put the med wt rugs away here. An odd nice day. I had to feed more than normal for quite some time. Even 3 meals a day for some. The feeding in the forage just hasn't been there as in past years. So you know you have to do what you have to do. Being a little lean is fine. Being lean and doing what was asked of this horse was not. You may well love your horse but you did not take his welfare to account on the day. I would also like to know about this poor bay mare.

As far as Facebook, well I have a non blood family member with a page on there. Suffice to say it's not as it appears. It's amazing how distorted the truth can become.

Terri
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Hi Terri,

I totally understand how you find this hard to believe - so do all of Hump's supporters. If it hadn't happened to someone I know so well I would not believe it either. Hard as it is to believe the truth has not been distorted. It is fact, Hump has passed three vet checks, he has gone from being a happy horse to a horse in need of an anti weave device. He has also sustained injury since being taken. I hope that your RSPCA or what ever body is in Ireland do not act as they do here. His conditions on his yard were great and he was cared for to the highest standards.

Help to get Hump back x:)
 
I say 'apparently' as that was the reason I have heard the horse was removed. I honestly couldn't say if it was lame as it literally spent the whole ride cantering and plunging sideways.
 
I think it would be interesting to see a recent, side on shot of the horse. However if he has been given a clean bill of health by an independent vet then I think it adds credence to him being lean and fit instead of skinny.
 
Kallibear said:
She was the reason the SSPCA was called. She was truely emaciated. I've never seems such a thin horse in real life. We (and others) spoke to the girl on board (a novice who'd been told by the owner and YO that the ride would do the horse good) and said the horse looked like that as 'it lived out all winter' etc. We tried to find out where she was from (didn't realise at the time it was linked to the chestnut) so we could report it but someone got there before us.

The chestnut literally spend 5hrs cantering and jogging sideways. The rider must have been knackered,never mind the horse! Apparently it was removed because it was lame on 3 legs and various people have been asked to give witness to it (and the bay) being on the ride.
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Hi Kallibera, I think you have addressed this already that you didn't know for a fact if he was lame on any legs. I would just like to clarify this for you and everybody who is reading this thread, Hump was passed fit by three vets. Did you see the video? In the vid he turns a really tight circle (that was shot on day of common ride) I dont know your knowledge but I'm presuming you know a fair bit about horses, a lame horse could not do that. There is no lameness on the video and it would be clearly evident if he was lame even on one leg. A vet has looked at that vid and said he most defo is not lame. Hope that clears up that issue x
Thanks
 
Ponygirrl, maybe you will answer my questions, so far no one has.
1. 3 vet checks? When? Independent vets that the owner or person responsible would have been offered to have?
2. Is HelpHphrey the owner?
3. Why is the FB site stating that Humphrey was stolen or taken without a warrant?
4. Why was a horse that was clearly not on good condition ( from the video before the ride) taken on a fast long common ride?
5. An interview has taken place, who was interviewed and why ( this would have been made clear)
6. What evidence is there that Humphrey is in distress
7. Why is there no information about the other horse that was removed? Seems strange when from the same yard.

Thank you
 
Hi Milly Moomie

here is what I can answer;
1. 3 vet checks? When? Independent vets that the owner or person responsible would have been offered to have?
yes 3 vets have checked him and passed him as fit

2. Is HelpHphrey the owner? -
dont know this, but why do you want to know?

3. Why is the FB site stating that Humphrey was stolen or taken without a warrant?
Because that is the truth.

4. Why was a horse that was clearly not on good condition ( from the video before the ride) taken on a fast long common ride? This is your opinion - but it is not the shared opinion of the vast amount of people who have viewed the video.

5. An interview has taken place, who was interviewed and why ( this would have been made clear)
I don't have this info - sorry

6. What evidence is there that Humphrey is in distress
I take it you mean at the SSPCA yard? He has been fitted with an anti weave device (for stressed unhappy anxious animals). This is a clear sign that he is in distress to me and many people. Also, there is a tonne of much right under his nose. Foul filthy conditions which would attract flies.

7. Why is there no information about the other horse that was removed? Seems strange when from the same yard.

The horses are owned by different people
Hope that helps x

MillyMoomie said:
Ponygirrl, maybe you will answer my questions, so far no one has.
1. 3 vet checks? When? Independent vets that the owner or person responsible would have been offered to have?
2. Is HelpHphrey the owner?
3. Why is the FB site stating that Humphrey was stolen or taken without a warrant?
4. Why was a horse that was clearly not on good condition ( from the video before the ride) taken on a fast long common ride?
5. An interview has taken place, who was interviewed and why ( this would have been made clear)
6. What evidence is there that Humphrey is in distress
7. Why is there no information about the other horse that was removed? Seems strange when from the same yard.

Thank you
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Hi Ponygirrl thanks for at least trying, because I too have some inside knowledge from the other side of the fence none of this adds up. But I respect you for answering me.
One thing is I find highly foolish though and that I recommend all connections stop is trying to convince people that Humphrey was 'taken without a warrant etc etc etc'. As I'm sure you all know that the SPCA inspectors have powers that include to seize, therefore no warrant needed and no theft. Even if this wasn't the case your videos clearly show police and vets in attendance which backs up that the horses were removed legally and on welfare grounds.
Is this is going to be your arguement for having Humphrey returned I would possible think again, and maybe get some legal advice.
 
Ditto MillyMoomie, I too know some of those involved and saw both horses in question on the day. I may be old but my optician tells me there's nothing wrong with my eyes! I am getting seriously pissed off with this now.
 
I've avoided commenting so far, but would just like to raise the following points, as unfortunately those associated with this horse are not making themselves look very knowledgable IMO.

I totally understand that the young girl who owns /rides him must be heartbroken. However, I agree with others on here who say that from the recent videos that horse is not in a fit condition to take part in a ride. It has been a long winter, and as an older TB he may well have struggled. But part of our responsibility as owners is to ensure our horses are fit enough for the work asked of them.

I actually don't particularly advocate the use of weave grills. However, a horse that doesn't weave won't be distressed by it being fitted, and in one video clip it is implied the horse doesn't weave. There are too many unknowns to judge, or worry, about that factor - eg is it fitted to the stable as standard? Is the horse spending more time stabled because it is on box rest due to unsoundness, and therefore a little fractious?(I didn't think he looked distressed on the SPCA yard, but the last thing you want with an unsound horse is it continually transferring weight from one leg to the other on a stable floor)


It is not possible to tell if a horse is lame by watching it on a short video clip on a circle in walk - hopping lame (eg abscess etc) yes, but not in many cases where a horse might be notably unlevel trotting up. The horse was not taken on a ride in walk, he has been on a fast ride and thefore the assessment would need to more appropriate. My old horse is arthritic and will not cope with trot work(and therefore is not asked to) but would certainly walk a circle looking sound :) when multiple limb lameness is involved, it becomes even more difficult to tell, and many horses actually look "sound" because they are equally "lame' in all their legs. However, I'm afrid in my opinion there are instances in the videos (inc jumping ones) where the horse does look lame.

With regard to the other concern, I don't assume the muck trailer is perminantly parked in front of the stable? Just a convenient peace of video footage for an understandably upset family.

I do sympathise with the situation, as it must be horrible for all involved - I also do not, on the whole, have a high opinion on welfare charities, so I am not saying that what they've done must be right - but from watching the clips, I have to say if it was my horse out on loan, I would be picking it up immediately - I'm sure there are plenty worse off all over the country, but that doesn't actually make the type, quantity or quality of work this horse is being asked to perform, correct.
I hope it is all resolved to everyone's best interests (most importantly the horse) but perhaps an honest look at whether Humphrey should really being asked to undertake this level of work is required? Sometimes it is possible to not see something so close, which is obvious to outsiders? :)
 
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This horse is seriously emaciated, he should not be in any hard work. No matter how often the owner kisses him or how much they love him, they were obviously not taking good care of him. Really, they should be ashamed of themselves instead of posting stupid montage videos.

And those who confuse a fit racehorse or fit eventer with an emaciated horse? Come on, the only common point between both is seeing ribs, a fit horse has a good muscle coverage, this one is just very poor.
 
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