help I am new to breeding and need to choose a stallion

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sarah and hatty

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Hi there I have only just joined and in desperate need of some expert help!

I have always wanted to breed at some point and currently have the ideal scenario as my mare is off work for the next 6 - 8 months as she has a crack in her foot which is taking forever to grow out (caused by injury not bad feet).

She is 12 and hanovarian x tb. I keep her at home and she is my only horse (besides my companion pony). She has an excellent temperament (besides being a chestnut mare!), always wants to please and has a good jump as she is by grade a stallion, augermann. I BS with her up to newcomers and she has shown great boldness at xc, the last 2 years we have been competing Be100. Her flatwork isn't flashy but she is correct and obedient.

I want to breed a foal from her to keep as my horse. I would like to continue eventing but novice would probably be my limit even if the horse could do more (my mare could quite easily go futher if i had the confidence) and a general alrounder to have fun with, sj and dressage. I have been looking at tb event stallions as she is quite a chunky mare.

There are so many stallions to choose from! I have looked at Templar Spirit who seems to have good blood lines but what has he done? As well as a couple at the louelle stud - primitive star and Denounce, but same question.
I have also looked at (all on the internet) Mill Law and even Chilli Morning but my worry is although these are brilliant stallions will they produce too much of a competion horse for me that will over horse me that i then cant go out for a hack on? Dont get me wrong i am very competitive and like to know my horse has lots of potential as thats what drives me to do better but they are also my pet, which i handle by myself every day and sometimes want a leisurely hack rather than worrying that if they haven't been ridden for a week they will be a nightmare!

Sorry for the long winded explanation I just dont know enough about any of the stallions and their progeny or temperaments? I have to move fast as I am aware am near the end of the season, any help gratefully recieved!
 
Hi.
I think what would help you to decide would be to have a think about what you would like your little bundle of love to be when he or she grows up.
I dont mean eventer or any thing else like that but, hight, chestnut/ grey, have a good temprament be flashy looking etc.
Once you have the basics you can then widdle it down to the write breed for you, most stallion owners put the statistics up, ie throws bays, very trainable, has good conformation, is calm etc. If your mare is chunky and you would like some thing finer maybe arab or tb would be good. Hope this next bit doesnt sound patronizing but if its you and your mares first time i would try not to cover her with any thing tooo big, as it could be a problem.
Hope this helps. Good luck x
 
ok thanks yeah i did wonder about that as a lot of the stallions i have looked at are 17hh, she is 16.3 so big herself but i guess you mean a large foal and difficult delivery? My worse nightmare would obviously be to lose her. Although she will probably go to stud in expert hands rather than with me at home!
Thanks
 
You are right on target for Avanti Amorous Archie living where you do.

I am biased as I have an Archie baby. Lovely horse, temperament to die for and a proven competition/all rounder working stallion owned by the most lovely and knowledgable lady you are likely to meet.

He is RID so if you wanted to event beyond novice I think you would struggle with the time aspect. He is at the top end of middleweight in hunter terms and if your mare is a big chunky girly the result would be a middleweight show hunter - right up my street !! but maybe not want you want to event at a good level. I know little about eventing but the horses I have seen look to be almost TB and light of bone.

Have a look at his website. Without a picture of your mare, what you think is a big mare and what I think is a big mare could easily be two different things.
 
My boy Weston Justice would fit your bill as he has stock with amatuers and pros. His stock have come out very easy to do and produce in many cases. We bred him, his mother and our neighbour bred his grannie and great grannie. Indeed his was bred to produce quality allrounders he just exceeded all expectations.
 
Have a look at Groomsbridge May I - he has offspring starting to compete in all disciplines now, including a lovely mare, bred by Sally, who is about to make her Novice BE debut, I believe. I live in Hertford, and it takes me just over an hour to get to the stud in a Horsebox, and I would reccomend them for any stud work, even if the stallion isn't a match for your mare :)
 
Sarah and Hatty, I was in your position 2 years ago with my ID x TB mare (also had to have time off, quite chunky and 16.2) I wanted a smallish TB stallion to produce something for me to low level event and riding club. I chose Kings Composer in the end and now have a smashing yearling, very correct, easy going and confident so I am hopeful I have achieved my aim. I also left all the technical bits to the experts ;) Good luck :)
 
I second May I, he is handy for you to go and look at and they offer a fantastic service as well as him being such a nice boy.
I put my ID x tb mare to him and now have a 2 year old who is a pleasure to deal with. Like you I keep them at home and they have to be easy and I don't have time for daily sessions to keep them calm and trainable. He is the easist horse I have ever dealt with. My OH is not horsey and will happily do anything with him for me.
This is him:
Godot120512003.jpg
Godot120512016.jpg


and this is the mare:
DixieatHuntersRally003av.jpg

Sorry, not a good pic but all I had in photobucket.

Piper moves like a dream too.
 
Thanks for the help, much appreciated, i am coming to the conclusion that temperament is very important for my situation, hopefully combined with ability to low level event (novice), BS and general riding club. I can not afford to have something hot headed or too sharp as i often have to ride on my own, hack to the school down the road and i have a child.

Suggestions above have been very helpful. I think a smallish TB would be ideal for her as shes a big mare, i think ID would be too chunky for her even though Archie looks lovely! Also i am 5'8 so would ideally like to produce a horse 16.1+. I am also taking in to consideration she is a maiden mare and I don't want her to have a too big a foal!

Weston Justice certainly seems to be a hit on a lot of forums so seriously considering him! Also on the shortlist, One more tiger, Mill law, Templar Spirit or Keep Cool II (although not tb he seems to have temp and is local).

Any thoughts on these for my situation?
Many thanks!
 
ooh yes he is really up my street.... reports saying good temperament, my only concern is hes larger than Weston Justice who was my next choice, and i guess he is too young to know if he throws big foals? OOh decisions..

Ok i think its between these two.... i need temperament, something that moves well to improve on my mare and she is a bit long so ideally something a bit more compact to balance that out. I want a fun horse not a quirky olympic athlete, so which one???
 
I would look at Brief Encounter; proven eventer, super temperament and not too big.

I really liked him when I saw him at Hartpury stallion parade.
 
sarah and hatty said:
ooh yes he is really up my street.... reports saying good temperament, my only concern is hes larger than Weston Justice who was my next choice, and i guess he is too young to know if he throws big foals? OOh decisions..

Ok i think its between these two.... i need temperament, something that moves well to improve on my mare and she is a bit long so ideally something a bit more compact to balance that out. I want a fun horse not a quirky olympic athlete, so which one???
Click to expand...

Why dont you go and visit them to judge conformation and temperament in the flesh.
I have a stallion mentioned above Groomsbridge May I and he throws excellent tempered horses ,is short in the back etc.
I also have 2 other TB stallions ,one of which isnt on my website and they also both have exceptional temperaments .High Tension babies are so laid back its not true.
But what i will say is do you ever see anyone advertising there stallion as not having a good temperament.
I think you would be better to visit and make up your own mind as people have very differing views on there own horse.
I work with many many stallions and mares and have to say some peoples ideas of good temperaments certainly arnt mine.
My own boys and girls have to be good because i dont have the time or energy to keep something that isnt.
I see horses that personally i would have castrated and occasionally ones i have had castrated(please dont look on the website and try and guess who they are as many of the horses i deal with arnt on there)
 
millitiger said:
I would look at Brief Encounter; proven eventer, super temperament and not too big.

I really liked him when I saw him at Hartpury stallion parade.
Click to expand...

I have had a few by Brief Encounter and have 2 foals this yr...they are lovely as is Wish Upon A Star... both stand at Grafham Studvand are Advanced. Another who might suit is Up With The Lark ...super mover and very laid back ...I think he is 7/8ths TB
Good Luck
 
The comment from Sallyf, advising visiting the stallion is such good advice, as has all the advice from the beginning of the thread.

Being able to see them in their own environment tell it's own story, the majority of modern stallions lead a relatively normal life which is testament to their temperaments. As Sallyf said all adverts will say 'good temperament'. There was a TB stallion not far from me advertised as good all rounder sire etc etc, the reality was a horse that was fed through a hatch and run free to his paddock because he attacked his handlers. A number of my friends used him because 'just down the road', was easier than taking the mare miles. Everyone of the foals turned into tricky to handle nappy youngsters with a tendency to stand up when under pressure.

When I bred my filly I had not seen the stallion but had been told how good his temperament was and the testimonials were glowing. It was very exciting going to collect the semen and meet him in the flesh.

Laid back was an understatement, he was stood at the garden fence watching his owner in the kitchen. He ambled over to speak to me and was polite, gentle and stunningly handsome. After a spin in the school to show off his lovely paces he had a bath and returned to his paddock. All this was done in a headcollar. I found myself waiting for a discreet opportunity to peek underneath to see proof of manhood ! This horse is Archie and too big for the OP's needs. He passes his temperament on to his youngstock and my filly has just proven that with 3 weeks box rest taken in her stride.

If you can find the time, OP, to go and meet the stallions on the short list I would say it's a very good idea. Good Luck, you are heading for a nerve wracking but very exciting time.
 
Absolutely agree that you must visit the stallion and feel comfortable with their temperament. If they don't strike you as sane and sensible then move on. As you say, its no point breeding a high level competition horse that is unsuitable for an amateur.

I'm also in Hertfordshire and sent my mare to Brackenspa Stud just outside Stamford for AI and the duration of her pregnancy. I didn't use one of their stallions, but nevertheless had amazing care and support all the way through the process by Sally, David their team and Roger at Tower Equine Vets. I now have a strapping 2 year old with an amazing temperament - which is a good thing as he is already measuring 16 hands!

Would definitely recommend leaving it all to the professionals, my boy had low IGG scores and it was so comforting to know that he was getting the best care possible throughout.

Good Luck on finding the right Sire and on producing your next horse :)
 
Some really good valid points posted on here,i absolutely agree with visiting the stallion beforehand and do some reaserch meanwhile.Another thing to add would be to see some stock by the stallions you are thinking of using to get an idea of what they produce..and ask lots of questions..
 
Do go and see stallions, I agree but look at their youngstock as well and do a bit of homework one their parents. It is the reason breeding become addictive because of the research required. I know pleny of stallions that are lovely to do but are unridable. The care of stallions has come a long way but some of the old boys were not always fairly treated so can come over as a bit mean and some are just plain cheeky.
 
maestro said:
Do go and see stallions, I agree but look at their youngstock as well and do a bit of homework one their parents. It is the reason breeding become addictive because of the research required. I know pleny of stallions that are lovely to do but are unridable. The care of stallions has come a long way but some of the old boys were not always fairly treated so can come over as a bit mean and some are just plain cheeky.
Click to expand...

completely agree with this too.
One of mine is cheeky but he's actually the most laid back horse on the yard by a country mile and his stock the same.
I had another colt who was always quiet in the stable and people always remarked on his nice nature but i actually had him castrated as i found him very unameniable when you actually wanted him to do anything and that included with mares.
The interesting thing was he was castrated after one crop of foals and they turned out sharp so i made the right decision i reckon.
I also agree about the parents too.
 
Gosh, thanks so much for all the help and advice, i feel like i have learnt so much already in just a week.

I totally agree it would be best to go and look at the stallions, its hard to tell by photos and adverts, after all i would never dream of buying a horse without looking at it several times in the flesh.

I am feeling pretty over whelmed by it all now, there seems to be so many stallions and so many judgements, and I feel quite pressured time wise as both my vet and local stud have said i am right on the edge of when i should be putting her in foal. I simply don't have the time to travel round the country looking at them all. I need to select one or two i think and arrange to see them.

I really appreciate the advice of local studs as well thanks, I am not naive enough to think i can do all this on my own so thats great.

If anyone knows of any reason why any of the above stallions may not be suitable would be glad to hear of it, it will help whittle down my list a bit more!
Phew thank god i have an understanding husband who is supplying me with cups of tea at the laptop all weekend!

I really appreciate all comments i never realised how helpful these forums are.
Sarah
 
Another thing to add into the mix is whe you find potential stallion see if anyone has used the stud before. It's just that good experienced stud staff can save the owner a lot of money in vets fees.
 
Can I throw another possible stallion in to the equation? :)

My Eclipse who is Tb, and his sire is Shaab.

He is a smaller, lighter type, has evented up to Intermediate, and he has the most super temperament.

I have two four year olds by him, one out of an ID mare and one out of a Cob mare. Tbh you wouldn't look at them and think they are half tb, but he has given them quality, iykwim.

The lady that owns him events several of his stock, all out of different types of mares, her website is Trenerth Equestrian.
 
I was in a similar situation last year with my mare. It was always my plan to breed my next event horse from her and at 17 I was running out of time. Mare is 16h, 3/4 TB, very capable and pretty feisty but very willing and has a good work ethic. She is a jumping machine but can be quite argumentative......she thinks she knows best.

I needed something with a good temperament and went with One More Tiger. Have a lovely bay colt now who is 6 weeks old. Very pleased with him. Tiger really does pass on his superb temperament and breeds nice upstanding quality into them. I have seen his foals, a yearling and a 2 year old by him and they are all stunning. My foal is very very friendly, bold as brass and isn't phased by anything.

I'll post some pics if I can upload them.
 
I would definately contact Groomsbridge, as a not so novice at breeding but busy working full time, I chose a stallion that walks into Groomsbrige for AI and the service was very professional but approachable, and Sally does not look down her nose at us single mare hobby breeders.

If you are going to use AI i would advise you sort out a package either with your local recommended AI vet or at the stud. I used a vet that is not my normal vet as they do not take boarding mares, and I can't take time off work easily. Remember mares do not follow the text books and mine caught me on the hop, came in 3 days earlier than expected, and i was able to dash to Newmarket to pick up the semen which was a bonus, as if i were using a stallion in Scotland or the West Country then i would have missed that cycle. Remember to ask stallion owners about collection days, notice required and courier services/costs incase they are required.
 
thanks guys,
very usefull info regarding AI and what to think about. I assumed my normal vet would do it as he said he would but have since been told that it would be much better the stud or an AI vet did it, that hadn't even occured to me!

Am going to try and arrange a visit to Tremlows which it seems has most of the horses I am interested in...
Revolution
Sir Suave - although hes not there at mo
Mill Law
Weston Justice

Its a good 3 hours by car so would be even longer with trailer, don't know if stuped question but if i took my mare there could the long drive home effect how she takes? Shes not a stressy traveller but its quite tiring, especially as shes not fit as had last few months off!
 
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