HELP - I haven't a clue

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BMA

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Before you read this please bare in mind I have owned this horse for 10 years, this is my 10th season hunting him, I used to event in the summer too and I have owned the trailer for 9 years....

Horse tried to kick 7 bells out the trailer again yesterday…we were coming into the yard and slowing down to stop when he let rip. Husband immediately pulled off again (which I assume knocks him off balance…did a lap round the village and soon as he pulled into the yard I was waiting and got him out before he could lose the plot again).

The first time he did it and made a real mess of himself was early September this year. It was the first cubbing meet…we pulled up at the kennels and were early so left him in the trailer whilst I sat in the car…after about 10 minutes he totally lost the plot and was trying to smash his way out the box double barrelling the back door. I managed to get the back ramp down (nearly flattening me in the process) , he then smashed the breeching bar to pieces…I got in and managed to get him out. He had a few cuts and he went out and did a normal days cubbing – albeit he was wound up the first few minutes. When we finished I loaded him up…opened the top door so he could see and went in for a drink…next thing the horse is going berserk. It honestly looks like you have put a wild mustang in a trailer and he is doubling barrelling the back door and I genuinely believe that he would not stop until he had either broken his legs or got out the trailer. In the end dad drove off and the banging stopped. But he made a real mess of his legs, they were swollen for 3 weeks, he was off for 3 weeks…he still has a scab the size of a 50 piece on one of his hocks.

At the time the only thing I could think of is that we had parked next to a paddock with some hounds in it…but after 9 seasons he has seen hounds a few times!!!!

He has since been out about 3 or 4 times and he is going really well…his jumping is spot on – big hedges with huge drops, 5 bar gates, walls, ditches rails he is flying the lot of them.

Out hacking he is VERY keen. He takes off a lot, shows off if we see another horse and bucks at the bottom of hills. He also squeals a bit…same with lunging. Has a squeal and whizzes off when we first start…all of it seems like a very keen horse that feels very well…same with the bucking. He seems more woo hoo than get off me and surely if there was any pain he wouldn’t be jumping!

Nothing has changed…he’s been at current yard for over a year, same trailer, same feed, same towing vehicle, same exercise routine, he behaves the same out hunting and jumping, he is used to standing in a trailer. When I used to compete him he would stand in the trailer for hours on end…last New Year he stood in the trailer in a pub car park from 1.30 to 6.00…and you never hear a peep out him. He still loads fine, he isn’t sweating when travelling, he doesn’t bang around when travelling, he isn’t kicking in the stable.

Just really worried as yesterday we had barely stopped when he lost the plot…if he starts doing this at traffic lights or something it is going to end up really dangerous and he is going to cripple himself.

I have the vet coming on Friday…but I have absolutely no clue.

Thanks for reading this
 
I'm wondering if something has scared him whilst he has been stood in the trailer somewhere?
Sounds like he might be worrying about stopping.
is he better if he can see you? and worse when you walk away?

I think he may be feeling insecure about something and not being able to see you makes him kick off. Im not sure what you can do though as obviously there is always going to be a period where he cant see you.

Maybe try loading him at home and feeding him his tea on there and try and get him to feel comfortable in there again?

Sorry im not more help.

Emily
 
Stab in the dark.
Have you changed your farrier within the last...., say 18 months? Could it be that he is not so well balanced on his feet when travelling?
A friend of mine hadn't realised how much her horse's feet had changed shape while being done by a particular farrier over the last few years, until she changed again and almost immediately saw and felt the difference for the better in her horses feet and way of going.
All the best with sorting this out, it must be very worrying.
 
Wow! Not sure I can be of any help but you have my sympathy! Again, only a guess but as has already been said, can you think of anything which might have given him a fright when stopping?

Hope you find a solution asap - keep us posted and we'll be thinking of you! :) x
 
does he travel in the trailer with the partision in? if so i would maybe say try him in the full trailer.

"trailer fright" can happen at any time it can be caused by may things a fright lost balance, pain ect.

maybe if you let him have the full trailer size he will spread his legs out and might be able to balance himself beter. sometimes if they get a fright then panic and lean this causes them to loose more balance and then panic sets in .

i really hope this works, Good luck
Please let me know how you get on.
 
Thanks...in answer to the above

1. When he kicks off me being there does not help or calm the situation. The first time he did it me and the Whip were in there trying to calm him down..she's never seen a horse react like it.

2. It is a single ifor williams (amre and foal box) so no partition - he always does and always had stood with his back legs wide apart. You honestly never hear him move for the whole journey.

3. Have had the same farrier for about 7 years so that rules that out. Plus he is more than fine to ride, jump etc etc.

He is the type that if he was freaked out he wouldn't load at all.

The only things I can think of is a trapped nerve or something isn't right in his head...like a tumour. Sounds drastic but nothing has changed at all.....
 
ok so the only other thing i would suggest would be to get his teeth checked i know it sounds crazy but someytimes the vibrations from traveling can make what is normally a small grumbling insignificant pain in there mouth very very sore. and if he is doing it when the car is slowing of stopping this is maybe when the vibrations are worce ( although doesnt explain why he might do it when parked)

that would maybe explain why he loads ok but then suddenly goes mad he doesnt accociate the trailer with the pain because its not the trailer its the vibrations

just another idea for you, wish i could help more but will keep thinking
 
Hi not sure, but could it relate to being left in the box at the cubbing meet for 10 minutes as this was the first time?
My pony is very quiet and will stand tied etc and loads perfectly BUT there was one point she was left in a trailer for about 5-10 minutes without it moving and she also kicked off.
This seems to be when you first had an issue? If you have left him in for this long previously and he's been alright, then Im not sure.
 
BMA said:
Thanks...in answer to the above



The only things I can think of is a trapped nerve or something isn't right in his head...like a tumour. Sounds drastic but nothing has changed at all.....
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TBH I'd expect him to be behaving oddly at other times as well, in that case. Would it be worth you riding in the (empty) trailer to see if you can hear/feel any changes that happen as you slow down/stop? Is the horse trying to tell you something? Have you checked the trailer floor recently?
What a pity they can't just tell us what is wrong!
 
Haven't read any of the other responses/threads in relation to this - but is it just excitement to get out and get cubbing?!

Just as you mention him being keen in other aspects?

Cant quite get the wording right.. but hopefully you understand where I'm coming from!
 
Hi. You don't say how big he is and how tall the trailer is?? Single trailers in my opinion are not ideal. They are less stable and somewhat claustrophobic. Does he have travelling boots on?? Some horses really don't like them.
 
Thanks - but the blooming thing is used to standing in a box for hours and hours when i used to event him...and he is used to standing the the box at meets i.e breakfast meets, when we have a pow wow after and my dad likes to get everywhere early!

Last New Year he stood in the trailer in a pub car park from 1.30 to 6.00 and never made a peep.

Maybe its good he can't tell me...think the language would be foul.

Good idea re teeth...but then surely I'd notice something riding him/putting his bridle on/him eating but will get vet to check.

Trailer Idea worth looking at too...but how come he travels in it fine.

Sounds stupid but it's really doing my head in...last night I couldn't sleep. I had such a good days hunting yesterday and it felt like he ruined it!

I think I will get the vet to concentrate on teeth, back and brain!!! I think he is being shod on Thursday too so the vet can see if he is happy with all that!

He is such a pansy to handle but such an honest horse to ride and hunt...feel like I owe it to him to get to the bottom of this...plus my nerves are shattered when it comes to putting him in the trailer now.

Thanks for all your help - really appreciate it
 
Fleabite - this is his 10th season (all with me) so hunting is the norm for him.

Cougar - the measurements for a ifor williams single trailer are 30cm smaller than the standard double (i did loads of research when I brought it) so he has more room than in a double with a partition. And only slightly less than a double without a partition. Also I have had this trailer since new for 8/9 years...he has been fine in all that time and he has done some big journeys out hunting and when i used to aff event.
 
Do you think that there could be a short and he is getting zapped...has anyone ever heard of that? That would be the only thing that could explain his reaction (oh my god I'd feel horrid if this is the reason)
 
Iv had my mare 8 years and has always without any problem loaded into whatever. One day she stopped loading or messing around alot while inside and found out it was the trailer floor. It was insecure and she could feel this.. Once sorted iv had no other problems so honestly take your trailer for a real good look over.
 
BMA said:
Do you think that there could be a short and he is getting zapped...has anyone ever heard of that? That would be the only thing that could explain his reaction (oh my god I'd feel horrid if this is the reason)
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I do think that it is most likely that the answer lies in the trailer, rather than the horse.
TBH, I wouldn't travel him in it again until I'd had the trailer thoroughly checked out. Could you hire/borrow a trailer to see how he behaves in that?
Do let us know how you get on.
 
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Horse is 3/4 TB and 15.3hh. Trailer is upto a 16.2hh

No I don't use travel boots when i go hunting...only if I am going to compete and he doesn't have any other boots on....hence why when he did go mad he made such a mess...having said that i don't think the travel boots would have stood a chance.

I am now using travel boots again!

Its a Ifor Williams with a Alluminium Floor...could that get loose?!

Just thought about my zapping theory...when he went nuts the second time (after cubbing) the car was locked so surely they'd be no charge.

aaaarrrgggghhhhhhhh
 
I would be inclined to just try him in one of the forms of transport that seems to help a lot of bad travellers, something like a Renault Master, where the floor is low to the ground and he would be facing backwards. Just as an experiment to eliminate the trailer being the problem.
The other thought I have is that my mare started to be restless to travel, and then bad to load. Later I found that she had kissing spine, and some pelvic problems, and the theory is that as she started to feel pain, the rocking when travelling in a trailer was causing her discomfort.
 
Sally-FF...he is used to it and just snoozes. Same at an event...sometimes I'd have hours between the phases. Or would have to get their early to groom for a friend. I don't make a habbit of it but was just trying to prove thats how good/chilled out he was/is.
 
I don't think he would be getting zapped - he would refuse to go in surely?

I have a horse that, for no reason we can determine, started travelling badly, and getting very stressed. It loads without problems, and is fine on main roads, but gets very unsteady on corners/little lanes. Its the same trailer, same driver, etc that the horse has had for the previous two years without problems. The horse is fine if she has her fave horse companion with her. He doesn't worry about anything, and she relaxes with him. With another pony she was silly again.. This is again an Ifor - some people have commented that they don't travel as stable as some other makes. I'm hoping to get a trailer camera for Xmas so I can see more of what goes on. I travel her with over reach boots on all four feet, as she has stamped on herself once or twice, causing a mess to her coronet bands.

A single trailer,despite having as much room for the horse to stand in, is narrower and more claustrophobic for them - its a narrower tube, so to speak, so MUST be a less pleasant experience. I wonder why you left him in the trailer for six hours last year - that can only contribute to his dislike of the trailer, surely?

It sounds like a mixture of expectation to get out and go hunting, combined with a bit of a tantrum in the trailer. I do sympathise with you. Don't know what the answer is. I would get him out as soon as you get to the meet, and not give hi, the opportunity to start kicking - obviously at junctions ect you can't help it.

As someone said, it would be interesting to try him in a box or bigger trailer, but most people would be, quite rightly, not that happy to have something that is liable to kick the back door off their trailer in it! It happened to someone that I used to know - her horse kicked off the back door of someone's trailer. She then boughtr a small lorry, and the horse was quiet as a mouse in that.

There is always a reason for things. its just sometimes its impossible to find out what it is! Hope you do, and hugs to you in the meantime!x
 
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BMA said:
Sally-FF...he is used to it and just snoozes. Same at an event...sometimes I'd have hours between the phases. Or would have to get their early to groom for a friend. I don't make a habbit of it but was just trying to prove thats how good/chilled out he was/is.
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Surely at an event you would walk him around / let him stretch his legs in between phases?
 
Sally-FF said:
Thats a long time to leave a horse in the trailer, not being able to move - not very fair on him in my opinion
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Multi-horse riders at BE events might have to keep a horse on the lorry/trailer for similar lengths of time between phases - there's nothing you can do about it sometimes. Also it's the same as travelling to an event 5 hours away - in fact less stressful!! A little Irrelevant to the post!

Op, years ago my horse used to travel very well, but you could not leave him in the trailer once you had stopped - he would do exactly the same and try to climb out! You could however leave him tied up to the trailer for 24 hours (obviously didn't :p ) and he wouldn't move a muscle!!

He did however get worse when travelling. He hated twisty, country lanes - not good when you live in the countryside. Thinking about it all now, someone earlier mentioned bad backs and traveling (esp througgh twisty lanes) causing pain... He had a bad back and that must have been what it was!! He loved jumping and dressage - he won with 82% once - so it just shows some horses won't let it stop them working!!! This was years ago and things such as KS were never mentioned, but I can imagine he had something similar going on!! ....He also got to the point where he refussed to load!!

Good luck with the vet... let us know how you get on!! :)
 
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But the thing is...I've had him for 10 years and the trailer 9 years. If I had changed the trailer or something I could understand. And hunting to him is just like another horse going for a hack. This is his 10th season. I have been doing what you said - soon as I get to the meet I hop out, open the door and get him out and get on (so not to give him an excuse) but yesterday the wheels had barely stopped moving...I can't start jumping out and rolling like a stuntman!! :-) When he kicked off at the kennels I honestly thought he was going to be shot then and there in the box and he was having some sort of turn.

I am terrifed of asking to put him in someones trailer/lorry incase he flattens it.

He has always been used to travelling with friends too...trailers, lorries whatever. It was always a bit of a standing joke that he'd be easy to pinch as he's quite happily get in a car if he could.

Sally-FF and Cougar - my horse is always walked and cooled down between phases. I am looking for help so please don't reply if you are just looking to critise. My horse lives like a king (hence 10 seasons and never a day lame). We are all here as we love our horses...and often write on these forums as we are really worried so can we please concentrate on that. Thanks
 
Jess1 said:
Multi-horse riders at BE events might have to keep a horse on the lorry/trailer for similar lengths of time between phases - there's nothing you can do about it sometimes. Also it's the same as travelling to an event 5 hours away - in fact less stressful!! A little Irrelevant to the post!

Op, years ago my horse used to travel very well, but you could not leave him in the trailer once you had stopped - he would do exactly the same and try to climb out! You could however leave him tied up to the trailer for 24 hours (obviously didn't :p ) and he wouldn't move a muscle!!

He did however get worse when travelling. He hated twisty, country lanes - not good when you live in the countryside. Thinking about it all now, someone earlier mentioned bad backs and traveling (esp througgh twisty lanes) causing pain... He had a bad back and that must have been what it was!! He loved jumping and dressage - he won with 82% once - so it just shows some horses won't let it stop them working!!! This was years ago and things such as KS were never mentioned, but I can imagine he had something similar going on!! ....He also got to the point where he refussed to load!!
Good luck with the vet... let us know how you get on!! :)
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Interesting. I knew another jumping mare like that. She had to stop BSJA because she wouldn't go in the box/trailer anymore, yet still jumped at home fantastically. Better get my mare's back checked again!
 
Does he do it if you are stopped in traffic or is it only when you arrive somewhere?

I wouldn't suggest hiring something tbh because you could end up with a big ££££ bill if he decides to beat the crap out of it
 
OK...checklist as follows:
Back
Teeth
Trailer - floor, brakes

I also have a very good osteopath who is very tuned in. I'll let the vet have a look at everything but might have him out too. Once he was a bit flat/quiet out hunting. He came out...wiggled his knee around and he was back to normal.

Although my horse is very genuine I wouldn't have thought he'd be that genuine with back pain...I once had a saddler out and he was going to do a made to measure saddle for me and my friend (he works for a very well known make and fits/sponsor a lot of v well known riders). Anyway - there was some sort mix up in the factory and the saddle that came to me was based on my mates horses template- a warmblood x ID instead of a narrow-medium for a 3/4 TB. I got on me and the saddle fitter commented it was a bit low...I walked the short side of the school - as I came to go down the long side -imagine one of those bucking brocho horses in America that the cowboys get on...luckily when he got to the end he didn't know what to do or how I was still up there (neither did I) so I threw myself of pretty quick. Saddler stated it was a good job I managed to get off as the whole time he said he was thinking - oh god she's going to come off and sue! whoops!
 
BMA- you came in here saying you don't have a clue. We are just looking at the reasons why he may be freaking out. Not a criticism but an observation. Yes we are all here as we love our horses. Sorry of you have taken it out of context. Shan't bother suggesting anything else
 
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