Help - I rescued a Patterdale!!

[Pattie]

FWIW, the things that worked for us:

Dog sports/activities/breed appropriate exercise outlet - knackering out the body so we could eventually work on knackering out the mind was a pivotal moment. Agility is one of the most accessible and inclusive, and addictive. Dog sports organisations are full of similar-minded nutte... I mean, people, who have probably been where you are with their first dog, are full of advice, are another set of eyes for troubleshooting where things might be going wrong and are usually happy to accommodate less than perfect dogs as long as you're seen to be learning and trying your best.

Finding a good trainer who was happy to work with 'quirky' dogs. We would have been chucked out of the typical village hall arrangement but benefited hugely from recall workshops held outside, in small groups with plenty of space and one-to-one time. Did someone mention Craig Ogilvie upthread? His interactive play workshops are another good example. It took a bit of shopping around and dodging the yank 'n crank types before we found trainers that worked for us.

The books I read most during that time were The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson and Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt.



Your definition of normal must be quite broad.

This is not our first dog, this is our first strong-willed, feisty, temperamental dog. We shouldn't have rescued him, but we did, so we are responsible for him. I'm looking into agility, but I can't see how it will work with all those dogs there. The trainer said he might be able to go to reactive dog classes, which will be cheaper and hopefully, get him used to dogs and not barking.

 

[planete]

And...breathe. I have been there, got the T-shirt. The most helpful thing you can do for yourself is to accept the situation as it is now and relax. It is a steep learning curve. It is not going to change overnight no matter what methods you use so, in the meantime, tell yourself that your dog going ape at the end of the lead is not the end of the world, keep walking, even if you have to drag the little so-and-so. So many of us have been there. He will improve, bit by bit as he gets settled and your training starts to dent his need to rage. You will learn to manage the situation and to know when and where to walk him to avoid melt downs most of the time. If you think he might actually bite anything that comes too close, get him used to a muzzle so he cannot get himself and you into trouble, it will also help you relax if you know he cannot bite (look at kikopup videos on youtube for training ideas).

 

[Pattie]

And...breathe. I have been there, got the T-shirt. The most helpful thing you can do for yourself is to accept the situation as it is now and relax. It is a steep learning curve. It is not going to change overnight no matter what methods you use so, in the meantime, tell yourself that your dog going ape at the end of the lead is not the end of the world, keep walking, even if you have to drag the little so-and-so. So many of us have been there. He will improve, bit by bit as he gets settled and your training starts to dent his need to rage. You will learn to manage the situation and to know when and where to walk him to avoid melt downs most of the time. If you think he might actually bite anything that comes too close, get him used to a muzzle so he cannot get himself and you into trouble, it will also help you relax if you know he cannot bite (look at kikopup videos on youtube for training ideas).

I walk him away from dogs, but there are always one or two that drift into our vision. I don't know if he would bite or not, he's barked at a couple of bitches and the owners have come close with them, then he loses interest and does his won thing With dogs, he is more aggressive and doesn't stop. Thinking about it, those two bitches didn't bark at him, when the other dog barks, he doesn't stop. I walk past the dogs pulling and tugging him, but it's not very pleasant, nothing seems to work except just dragging him away, which is not teaching him anything. He does ull when he gets the scent of another dog or something else. This morning, no dogs, nothing he wanted to sniff and we had a lovely walk.

 

[oldie48]

Keep it up Pattie!One thing I have noticed since I've been out there training Stanley is the number of poorly trained dogs that we meet. Most are straining at the leash, many have zero recall and lots bark incessantly. My neighbour has 2 manic terriers and a lurcher, she can't let any of them off the lead and they are all completely neurotic and bark at everything AND I mean everything! Difference is with you (and me) is we want our dogs to behave and will work to achieve it. We haven't got easy dogs to train but I fully believe the effort is worth it. Stan the BT will heel both on the leash and off it as long as I've got something in my hand to reward him for the effort, once he's been rewarded he "forgets"! He's never going to walk obediently by my side like a BC or lab but I can get him to come to my side if I need to and for the moment that's good enough. Small steps can get you a very long way down the road. Don't get downhearted.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Last night my dog was on lead and carrying his ball. A lab came right up in his face in the dark to say hi. And he growled like hell and sounded like a beast from the black lagoon. But didn't drop his ball. So I said 'whoops, sorry, please pardon Mr Grumpy' and we walked on and I took the ball back and we continued. Not his finest hour, but if you make reasonably light of it and carry on businesslike, most people really don't mind. I know if someone else's dog gobs off at mine and they keep it under control and keep going, I appreciate it more than a poor experience for them both.

 

[Pattie]

Keep it up Pattie!One thing I have noticed since I've been out there training Stanley is the number of poorly trained dogs that we meet. Most are straining at the leash, many have zero recall and lots bark incessantly. My neighbour has 2 manic terriers and a lurcher, she can't let any of them off the lead and they are all completely neurotic and bark at everything AND I mean everything! Difference is with you (and me) is we want our dogs to behave and will work to achieve it. We haven't got easy dogs to train but I fully believe the effort is worth it. Stan the BT will heel both on the leash and off it as long as I've got something in my hand to reward him for the effort, once he's been rewarded he "forgets"! He's never going to walk obediently by my side like a BC or lab but I can get him to come to my side if I need to and for the moment that's good enough. Small steps can get you a very long way down the road. Don't get downhearted.

Thanks for your post, he is getting better in so many ways, just not the barking.lunging and pulling. I've been trying a Halti collar these last two days. It does make a big difference and he doesn't bother too much about it, but he doesn't like it. I have one part of the lead on his harness and one on the Halti, mostly I've been able to hold him on the harness, it's bliss. I have to keep up the other training I would do if I wasn't using a Halti, getting eye contact, moving with me, etc but I do that at a separate time. He is stopping for his treats more I bought some cocktail sausages, sometimes I just say 'sausages' and he comes back. I'm annoyed by the owners who have their dogs off lead and allow them to come up to you with yours which is on a on a lead. How long have you had your dogs?

 

[Pattie]

Last night my dog was on lead and carrying his ball. A lab came right up in his face in the dark to say hi. And he growled like hell and sounded like a beast from the black lagoon. But didn't drop his ball. So I said 'whoops, sorry, please pardon Mr Grumpy' and we walked on and I took the ball back and we continued. Not his finest hour, but if you make reasonably light of it and carry on businesslike, most people really don't mind. I know if someone else's dog gobs off at mine and they keep it under control and keep going, I appreciate it more than a poor experience for them both.

He didn't want to share his ball. I wish my dog would walk with a ball in his mouth. I meet one lady who has a dog off lead and she always puts him on before we get there. I don't mind passing her as I trust her to control her dog and I can try some training with my dog. We both just keep walking as the dogs yell at each other!

 

[pippixox]

i would recommend the yellow I need space jackets- even though you of course want to socialize him, it means people should actually give him more room and put their dog on lead (not that everyone does!)

also you could try and find a local dog walking group or adult dog training class,so you know what dogs you will be around

I also did a 'skills and tricks' class with my local dog training club, and it really helped my rescue bond with me and stimulated her mind massively. also it was a small class with other dogs all under close control so she quickly ignored them

 

[oldie48]

Thanks for your post, he is getting better in so many ways, just not the barking.lunging and pulling. I've been trying a Halti collar these last two days. It does make a big difference and he doesn't bother too much about it, but he doesn't like it. I have one part of the lead on his harness and one on the Halti, mostly I've been able to hold him on the harness, it's bliss. I have to keep up the other training I would do if I wasn't using a Halti, getting eye contact, moving with me, etc but I do that at a separate time. He is stopping for his treats more I bought some cocktail sausages, sometimes I just say 'sausages' and he comes back. I'm annoyed by the owners who have their dogs off lead and allow them to come up to you with yours which is on a on a lead. How long have you had your dogs?

Stanley is our third BT and we've had him from 8 weeks and he's very trainable for a terrier, he wants to please. I don't have experience of patterdales but I think terriers really need very clear boundaries and absolute consistency, Stan is clever, bold and exceptionally friendly but potentially quite independent. I work quite hard to be his focus. Since hitting adolescence, he's a dream at home but more challenging when other dogs are around so I am using a long line (and Alec will hate this) I carry monkey on a piece of string. If Stan sees another dog, I give him the chance to come back to me but if I have to stop him using the long line I use "monkey" to get his focus back on me and we play take it, leave it, tuggy etc. He's not very food orientated so we usually have our long first walk before he has breakfast and I do sit/stays using treats as a reward. I feel I know what Stan will respond to and I try to think ahead so we avoid undesirable behaviour. MIL is 99 and quite fragile so jumping up at mealtimes is a complete no, no so I make sure Stan is occupied with a kong before she sits down to eat with us and I work on "not jumping up" when she is in her own space. I have to admit I'm really enjoying the training but I was lucky enough to have a completely blank canvas. well done for perservering with your rescue, he's a lucky chap.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Seriously. Who gives a fiddlers what other people think as long as your dog isn't harming himself, you or someone else or their dog. Do what works. My dog has a dummy tit too. Neither he nor I have anything to prove. And neither does the OP or anyone else as long as no harm is being caused.

 

[CorvusCorax]

To add to the above, with my last dog, chilling the hell out and walking on past (and sometimes singing a silly song as per FinnishLapphund's advice), worked wonders. If you're constantly tensing up and waiting for the next conflict, why wouldn't that travel down the lead to the dog.

Don't be ashamed of Monkey or whatever other tactic you use to try and get over a hurdle.

 

[Pattie]

i would recommend the yellow I need space jackets- even though you of course want to socialize him, it means people should actually give him more room and put their dog on lead (not that everyone does!)

also you could try and find a local dog walking group or adult dog training class,so you know what dogs you will be around

I also did a 'skills and tricks' class with my local dog training club, and it really helped my rescue bond with me and stimulated her mind massively. also it was a small class with other dogs all under close control so she quickly ignored them

I'm thinking I might try classes as they should know what to do with him when he meets new dogs to him and them and help us. I didn't know those jackets existed! It may be worth a try, just so that people don't think I'm a nutter. I'm fairly new to this village and I thought it would help to meet people walking a dog, they all think I'm mad not wanting my dog to get too close to theirs.

 

[Pattie]

Seriously. Who gives a fiddlers what other people think as long as your dog isn't harming himself, you or someone else or their dog. Do what works. My dog has a dummy tit too. Neither he nor I have anything to prove. And neither does the OP or anyone else as long as no harm is being caused.

I agree with this, you have to do what is best for your dog and you. I'm trying the Halti, which is working, I don't have back and hip ache anymore. I'm carrying on with training in the hope that I alleviate the 'dread' walks and train him to walk nicely anyway. I now some people don't agree with them, but this dog is so reactive and pulling, I had to do something, when I first started this thread I would have cheerfully given the dog to the first person who would take him. Not so now, I love him. (I did before I tried the Halti)

 

[Pattie]

Stanley is our third BT and we've had him from 8 weeks and he's very trainable for a terrier, he wants to please. I don't have experience of patterdales but I think terriers really need very clear boundaries and absolute consistency, Stan is clever, bold and exceptionally friendly but potentially quite independent. I work quite hard to be his focus. Since hitting adolescence, he's a dream at home but more challenging when other dogs are around so I am using a long line (and Alec will hate this) I carry monkey on a piece of string. If Stan sees another dog, I give him the chance to come back to me but if I have to stop him using the long line I use "monkey" to get his focus back on me and we play take it, leave it, tuggy etc. He's not very food orientated so we usually have our long first walk before he has breakfast and I do sit/stays using treats as a reward. I feel I know what Stan will respond to and I try to think ahead so we avoid undesirable behaviour. MIL is 99 and quite fragile so jumping up at mealtimes is a complete no, no so I make sure Stan is occupied with a kong before she sits down to eat with us and I work on "not jumping up" when she is in her own space. I have to admit I'm really enjoying the training but I was lucky enough to have a completely blank canvas. well done for perservering with your rescue, he's a lucky chap.

It is the independence bit and making you the focus, it is coming I can really see that now. (Not when we see a dog though, but he is noticing me more at such times.) Sounds like you are doing a good job with your dogs. I might try the monkey thing, as my dog does like toys. (Not when he sees a dog, but you never know, over time...) Thanks for your last sentence, I hope he thinks he's lucky!

 

[oldie48]

It is the independence bit and making you the focus, it is coming I can really see that now. (Not when we see a dog though, but he is noticing me more at such times.) Sounds like you are doing a good job with your dogs. I might try the monkey thing, as my dog does like toys. (Not when he sees a dog, but you never know, over time...) Thanks for your last sentence, I hope he thinks he's lucky!

Before I starting using Monkey when we are out and about, I played with Stan at home, always high energy, leave it and take it, getting him to sit when I have monkey out of his reach and finishing the game when I know he'd like to continue and I never let him have it to play with on his own so it stays "special". It's a lot more motivating to him than a food reward.

 

[Pattie]

Before I starting using Monkey when we are out and about, I played with Stan at home, always high energy, leave it and take it, getting him to sit when I have monkey out of his reach and finishing the game when I know he'd like to continue and I never let him have it to play with on his own so it stays "special". It's a lot more motivating to him than a food reward.

I'll try that first then, good advice, thanks.

 

[Cherryblossom]

I feel your pain! We adopted a patterdale x 2 years ago- charity had advertised it as JRT and i had never heard of the breed (not common in this part of the country).

He’s stubborn, opinionated, often badly behaved... he’s also the doggy love of my life! I’ve been on here a number of times, and had really good advice, and have also used behaviouralists and classes. What worked for me was consistency and mental stimulation. 2 years in, every time I get the lead out he jumps up and down and barks like mad, and every time I wait until he is sitting quietly before putting the lead on... the length of time he barks for is decreasing and we’re now down to about 5 seconds.... but I can never give an inch. I’d softened up on letting him on furniture, and the result was him growling at people (I had a thread about it if you search my history). Reinstating firm boundaries has made him much happier and more relaxed.

We fairly frequently rent agility courses and use them to mentally stimulate him- the first class we did, he watched the demo dog do each obstacle and then was straight over it perfectly each time.... he is so incredibly smart when he isn’t using his brains for evil! At home I teach him a new trick every few weeks- he loves it and it gives me a toolkit for when we’re out and about... I’ve found spin to be really useful- if other dogs are coming near I can get him to do that and it gets him focussed on me and in an obedient mindset but it’s also got the advantage of involving movement.... sit was never successful when there was so much energy around. I know more experienced people would probably insist on and achieve perfect behaviour straight up, but I like to set us up for success, so our journey went spin- spin then sit when focussed- sit on command. The other great command was ‘stop’ which is still a work in progress, but mostly works.

So now I have a dog who is far from perfect- he still goes mad at the postman, he still reacts if another dog lunges at him on the lead, and I’ll never trust him 100%... but he can go off lead in our local park (which is shut off except for the road), his recall is, I’m told ‘excellent for a terrier’, and who the dog training class people think will excell at heel work and agility, if I can ever get into a class!

 

[Pattie]

I feel your pain! We adopted a patterdale x 2 years ago- charity had advertised it as JRT and i had never heard of the breed (not common in this part of the country).

He’s stubborn, opinionated, often badly behaved... he’s also the doggy love of my life! I’ve been on here a number of times, and had really good advice, and have also used behaviouralists and classes. What worked for me was consistency and mental stimulation. 2 years in, every time I get the lead out he jumps up and down and barks like mad, and every time I wait until he is sitting quietly before putting the lead on... the length of time he barks for is decreasing and we’re now down to about 5 seconds.... but I can never give an inch. I’d softened up on letting him on furniture, and the result was him growling at people (I had a thread about it if you search my history). Reinstating firm boundaries has made him much happier and more relaxed.

We fairly frequently rent agility courses and use them to mentally stimulate him- the first class we did, he watched the demo dog do each obstacle and then was straight over it perfectly each time.... he is so incredibly smart when he isn’t using his brains for evil! At home I teach him a new trick every few weeks- he loves it and it gives me a toolkit for when we’re out and about... I’ve found spin to be really useful- if other dogs are coming near I can get him to do that and it gets him focussed on me and in an obedient mindset but it’s also got the advantage of involving movement.... sit was never successful when there was so much energy around. I know more experienced people would probably insist on and achieve perfect behaviour straight up, but I like to set us up for success, so our journey went spin- spin then sit when focussed- sit on command. The other great command was ‘stop’ which is still a work in progress, but mostly works.

So now I have a dog who is far from perfect- he still goes mad at the postman, he still reacts if another dog lunges at him on the lead, and I’ll never trust him 100%... but he can go off lead in our local park (which is shut off except for the road), his recall is, I’m told ‘excellent for a terrier’, and who the dog training class people think will excell at heel work and agility, if I can ever get into a class!

Thanks for your post. What tricks do you teach him other than spin and is there a web sit I can look at? Glad you're managing to get some control of him. I have made some progress with mine, he used to go nuts at the start of the walk, jumping up and down and biting his lead, he never does that now as I made him calm leaving the house and garden,then sit, then gave him a treat. I had a bad 'bark' walk today where we encountered about 6 dogs, unusual. The Halti saved me! I am looking into some kind of groupl training to see if I can socialise him a bit. The agility classes also sound good.

 

[Cherryblossom]

I started with the ones that involve movement, so figure 8 through my legs, doing an army crawl along the ground, I bought a cheap indoor agility kit and do stuff in the kitchen. As he learned to focus more I started doing more pure obedience things- used his advent calendar to consistently teach him to balance a treat on his nose and wait, and built on it from there. As he grew to enjoy that, I would take him to secure areas where he could be let off the lead, and spend time letting him run, and then doing training with him, which taught him that if I call him back, it’s not always to stop his fun and restrain him.

I really recommend the book ‘when pigs fly’- it’s very terrier-centric. And the advice I continue to get from this forum is totally invaluable- there are some really experienced dog people on here.

Good luck!

 

[Pattie]

I started with the ones that involve movement, so figure 8 through my legs, doing an army crawl along the ground, I bought a cheap indoor agility kit and do stuff in the kitchen. As he learned to focus more I started doing more pure obedience things- used his advent calendar to consistently teach him to balance a treat on his nose and wait, and built on it from there. As he grew to enjoy that, I would take him to secure areas where he could be let off the lead, and spend time letting him run, and then doing training with him, which taught him that if I call him back, it’s not always to stop his fun and restrain him.

I really recommend the book ‘when pigs fly’- it’s very terrier-centric. And the advice I continue to get from this forum is totally invaluable- there are some really experienced dog people on here.

Good luck!

Thanks, great ideas. That book has been mentioned before, I must get it. He is getting better, he used to lunge at his food, then I got him to sit, now he will sit for 30 seconds (I'm sure he could do longer) and doesn't go to his bowl until I give the command, it will be great to get some fun things for him to learn. Thanks again.