Help in regards to accident at Chershire Show

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Atki

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Hi,

I am assuming that many of you attended this years Cheshire Show, some of you may know what I am going to talk about next. There was an accident involving a horse and my mother, Gail, at the event around 8.15-30 (not sure on exact time) in the morning. She was trapped in the horse box when the horse was startled or scared by something, I have been told a tractor with its bucket above the horse. She was then rushed to hospital in ambulance and is now on the mend.

I am however looking for any witnesses to the accident, as I am myself not involved in the equestrian scene like my mum and sister, it is hard for me to find the right contacts for information. If any one has any information or witnessed the accident, even people who have pictures, could you contact me as soon as possible please as I wish to get to the bottom of why this happened in the first place. Contact me on either atki@modifiedyorkshire.com or ginger_jason@blueyonder.co.uk

Thank you for your time

Jason Atkinson
 
Atki

Can I ask what pictures or video or anything is going to do for you? Um I dont mean to sound harsh but there is know one to blame period! If a crane had a bucket so be it! Someone had a camera flash go off.. again! So be it! I mean unless someone shot off a gun in the air.......maybe?

Maybe I am not understanding your meaning or what you want. These are horses and they very unpredictable. For 7 years I have been traveling the US watching upper level events and have seen some scary stuff... real bad falls you name it... I never recall a rider or anyone else trying to look to blame someone. Notice you have 100's of reads and only 2 responses so maybe I am the one dumb enough to make this point. The best person for what happened is the rider. And I do hope she is ok. Again maybe I reading your request wrong.
 
Atki

I read your post again and I see your Mom wasnt the rider. I am even more confused now. Ill leave this to the UK crowd.

I havent a clue what a non horse person would be doing in a horse box? I thought you where referring to a Cross Country start box.
 
I will explain, my mother was in the horse box sorting out the horse just before she took her out of the horse box (been what they transported the horse in to the show). While in the box a tractor was towing another box into the area and because of the length of tugging rope they were using the tractor had to come right up behind my mothers box, thus meaning the bucket had to be lifted up and over the horse while making a loud diesel engine sound. This has scared the horse, as it would do any small child as well, and as she panicked has knocked my mother to the floor and started kicking relentlessly, stuck between a partition and the horse she had no escape until my sister released the horse out of the box. When found my mother was bleeding through the nose and mouth, also told having slight fits, and unconscious not breathing. When making it to hospital she awoken however at first did not know anyone, most of all my sister who is her daughter, now she does thank god and all tests apart from the jaw x-ray have come back clear.

I state she was not riding the horse at the time, I do understand that horses are unpredictable animals as I myself do not take part in my mothers hobby due to my fear of what they can do, much more prefer a motorbike which can be switched off in danger.

I disagree with some of your comments and believe they were slight harsh but also see that you misread what I put.

Thanks
Atki
 
Glad to hear your mums on the mend. Hop she makes a speedy recovery and is up and about ASAP

I firmly believe that shows should have a responsibility to think about the situation they are putting horses in. I have been in one show ring when they did a flyover, most of the horses in the ring freaked (mines used to them living between 2 RAF bases), luckily there were no major injuries, but would hate to think what may have happened if there was a childrens class in the ring at the time.
 
I'm so glad your mum is on the mend.

But I also hope that you are not going to become part of the compensation culture, and try and sue the show organisers.
 
Working in personal injury claims, and seeing what people claim for these day, I have no doubt a claim will follow!

To be honest though, if this went to trial, the injured person would probably win!
 
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To be honest though, if this went to trial, the injured person would probably win!

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Undoubtedly - which would be very sad, as accidents do happen. And not everything is about negligence
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I know, but unfortunately its all about how much money you can get these days...

Have you seen the latest news on H&H...person had to pay damages in respect of a horse they had sold that reared up and injured someone...despite the fact it had never done it before and there was no evidence it even reared! judges live in a dream world.
 
Tbh were not after the claim its an irrelivance to me about getting money, I just do not like to see negligence on show organizers parts ending up in the injury fo someone, when going to a show you should expect to be safe and looked after. My arguement is this, if you were driving down the road past horses would you rev your engine or hover things over a horse.....no, why should they do this at a show ground the horses act just the same regardless of where they are. As for employees of the show they should make sure everyone is trained on how to work around horses, you wouldn't send a worker into a nursery without giving them training on how to look after a child.

The simple fact is my mother nearly lost her life and I nearly lost a mum because somebody at the show decided it would be better off to employ any tractor just to keep the show open and pay them cash in hand, this is wrong nothing is worth a persons life, regardless of how big the show is. It was already struggling been an hour behind anyway and the fact that boxes had to be towed onto the field as well as off shows that safety was not the prime concern, more so the money they could make.

As said before compensation is not top on my list, not sure abut my mother like, but my concern is to stop this happening at other shows, after what it has put myself through driving to a hospital not knowing whether my mum was to be dead or alive when I arrived is probably the worst experience of my life yet. If people put a show before a life then they shouldn't be allowed to organise events...simple.

Thanks for all your comments

Atki
 
I do see your point - and it sound like a terribly unfortunate incident.

Pressumably a strongly worded letter to the organisers has been sent, asking them to ensure that all workers on site are aware of the hazards of working around horses, and the implications of their actions?

I am sure they are mortified by what happened to your mother, and would want to do everything they can to ensure that this sort of thing never happens again.
 
They have denied anything was operating in the area at the time, the police say they are having on going meetings with them and are investigations on both sides. It annoys me most that if somebody was careful in their work all this could have been avoided. The way the world is thought now a days everyone for them self.

Thanks

Atki
 
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They have denied anything was operating in the area at the time

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Oooops - not a good game to play - especially if there were witnesses.
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Just a thought, I assume there were witnesses at the time (or not sure how you know a tractor was involved)...surely they would have spoken to the police? As an interested party you can actually apply to have a copy of their report (you will have to pay for it). You will then have first hand witness evident because by the sounds of it at the moment, no-one really knows what happened. Blaming the organisers at this moment is only going to add to your stress and anger. Best bet would be to get the police report which will be un biased and hopefully the facts will be on there.
Good luck with your mums recovery by the way.
 
Atki, I understand your anger and frustration, but it is simply a terrible accident. I hope your mother is fully on the mend, and I do appreciate what a distressing time it must have been for you. But I also have to say what comes next.
I have competed regularly at events in Scotland where it was the norm to be towed in and out because of bad ground. In most instances, the tractor drivers were not show employees as such, but local farmers roped in to help out on the day. They were often under pressure to be as fast as possible, due to the amount of wagons on the grounds.
Operating a tractor towing a truck in a restricted area such as a lorry park is fraught with difficulty, and by necessity usually involves driving past other lorries. I have been in trucks at PTPs tacking up a horse when tractors go past. I think when you are at a showground, dealing with horses, you need to be aware of the tractors movements, as obviously you can hear them coming close, and keep yourself clear of a likely panicky pony/horse.
In all honesty, a tractor driver cannot keep getting on and off his tractor at every truck he passes, or is likely to pass, to warn people. I firmly believe that it is up to the individual horse owner to be aware of what is happening around them.
A show environment is where one should expect the unexpected, I don't for a minute imagine this was rampant carelessness on the part of the tractor driver, he would just have been trying to keep the show running smoothly.
Please don't try and find someone to blame, it was an unfortunate accident. Horses will be horses, it could as easily have been a bite on the animal that set it with the same result.
I hope you don't pursue the litigation route. If the money is not the issue here, then it would serve no real purpose for the future, except perhaps to persuade more show organisers not to bother holding them because of the potential claims and huge insurance premiums. And that would spoil a sport for people just like your mother and sister.
 
I'm sorry Atki but I agree with Gonetofrance.
On a show ground you must expect the unexpected, I'm sure the tractor driver was just trying to help the show organisers, though in my experience I think the tractor drivers get paid by the individuals he tows rather than the show organisers, so technically is not an employee anyway.
Though I could be wrong.
Hope your mother is much better soon
 
Hmm this sounds like your mother was in the wrong place at the wrong time, I am sorry for what happened to her. If there were tractors pulling boxes on all day, which there usually is at most major shows, I would have had the back up on the lorry anyway. I went to a county show last year and the lorry park was right next to the field where they were giving helicopter rides all day which was interesting to say the least. If the horse was not used to the big atmosphere it should not have been there and we have taken horses home before their classes to avoid upsetting them if we do not think they are ready for a busy hectice show. Or at least left them on the lorry with an older reliable companion. I know what your saying about the tractor should not have done what he did, but the driver was probably getting stick from the other end telling him to get the boxes on faster to clear the road to avoid accidents on the road leading to the showground. My boyfriend pulls boxes on at a few county shows and he is probably the only one that knows anything about horses compared to the other tractor drivers. They see them as cows and wouldn't even think twice about spooking your horse I'm afraid. I don't think you will get anywhere by writing to people, you may get a letter back syaing they have taken in to consideration etc. but I think that would be it.
How did you mum end up behind the horse and getting kicked that many times ina lorry anyway? I would've been outta there!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I know what your saying about the tractor should not have done what he did, but the driver was probably getting stick from the other end telling him to get the boxes on faster to clear the road to avoid accidents on the road leading to the showground.

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Is this the show that was in the Horse and Hound this week where everyone was pulled on and it was running hours late and all sounded bit stressful? I will go back and read it when I get to yard.

Hope your Mum is feeling better
 
I hope your mum makes a full recovery.

I think Atki, is actually trying to find out what exactly happened to her mother, which she has every right to do.
She has people telling her that a tractor put its bucket up over the horse which is very irresponsible in my book, most tractor drivers at shows are very cautious around the horses as they should be but to me if this it what happened it sounds like the driver wasn't thinking.
Then on the other hand she got people saying there was no machinery working in the area.
There is also the possibility that the tractor wasn't one of show ones but a local one that came in to help at the last minute (maybe asked to do so by another tractor dirver - possibly) and the show organisers may have had no idea that it was there helping, which would make it very differcult to trace the driver.
I do however feel that Atki has every right to try and find out what exactly happened and if it turns out that someone was acting irresponsibly with a tractor round the horses then follow it up if she wants to.
The fact is if the tractor was to blame, then the driver is responsible for his actions and her mother was not to know that they were going to stick the bucket over the horse how could she! If the situation was reversed and the horse had seriously injured the tractor driver as he walk past whilst her mother was handling it outside the box, I'm sure the tractor drivers family would be appealing for witnesses to find out what happened.
 
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She has people telling her that a tractor put its bucket up over the horse

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I know full well there are two sides to every story, but I am confused as to how Atki's mother was trapped in the partitions with the horse in the lorry, and managed to have a bucket over the pony as well?
I might be mad, but there is no way a bucket could get above my horses if they were in the lorry?
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The trouble with hearsay is that stories tend to get fractionally exaggerated in the telling, and with each exchange of info, it becomes chinese whispers.
I still believe that in a show scenario, you have to accept that accidents happen. Atki, (who I think is a HE not a she, BTW!) is by his own admission not a horse person, and probably has no real understanding of how little can set a horse off.
I got knocked silly once just taking a travelling boot off, the horse caught the side of my head with his stifle and smacked me into the lorry wall, because a horse trotted past the truck.
I expect the horse, for whatever reason, probably did get a fright at a tractor, but it is a hazard of going to competitions. They are horses at the end of the day, and you should as a handler be aware and anticipate.
I intend no disrespect whatsoever to Atki's mum, and I wish her a speedy recovery.
 
Atki, there is an article in H&H this week about Cheshire Show. I'm not sure if it will help you get to the bottom of what may have happened, but thought it worth mentioning.

It does sound as if the whole event was very poorly managed, and the incident with your mum is just compounding the whole situation.

Again best wishes to your mum, and speedy recovery.
 
I am struggling with this too....I am glad your mum is on the mend and wouldnt wish what she went through on my worst ememy, however...

Finding out what happened is fine.

Trying to make a claim would however, IMHO be out of order.

1. Is your mum experienced and if so why was she in a box with a horse at a large event with no escape
route? - I may tack up, groom occasinally with horses I know are bombproof in enclosed spaces, but its not a great practice.

2. Did your mum not realise that the horse may be spooked by the noise etc and perhaps realise that it would be safer to tie up outside.

3. How on earth could a bucket reach over a horsebox unless your horsebox is tiny?

Shows have enough to worry about these days, the insurance costs are horrendous. Farmers in tractors are a god send usually to help out stuck lorrys. They dont have any concept of horses etc, and it should be up to an owner to raise alarm if they have a problem, most people i meet at shows doing this function are more than helpful.

I do feel sorry that your mum suffered so badly (and the horse) but perhaps it would be wiser to concentrate efforts on densentising the horse as large shows always come with noise and bustle, and a bigger box so your mum has an escape route next time?

Hope she continues to recover well.
 
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How on earth could a bucket reach over a horsebox unless your horsebox is tiny?

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I suspect that the ramp was down - so the horse would be able to see the arm of the tractor and the bucket that way.
 
marsden often it is safer to get a horse ready in the box, Ive seen a great many accidents happen to horses tied up to the side, usualy caused by kids on ponies getting to close to the horse or something spooking the horse and the horse pulling back and taking a panel off the lorry in the process. then you have a loose horse, panicing with something tied to its head collar!
Alot of show horses settle better if left on the lorry as well and alot of people never ever tie to the side of a lorry as it is soo dangerous.

I will tie my oldies to the lorry but the youngsters dont get tied as they are more likely to freak about something.
 
I appreciate what you are saying and of course I am familar with crawling around in the back when its hissing down and taking boots off and on etc and with less settled ones yes they stay on board, BUT I always have an escape route. No matter how well you know your horse....its not worth the risk, they are fight or flight animals at the end of the day.
 
Understand all your comments and as stated I am only trying to find out what happened and whether it could have been prevented. The ramp was down, which she now regrets, meaning as the tractor came closer to the wagon it had to lift up the scoop in order to stop it from catching on the ramp, thus meaning the scoop was above the horse.

Secondly, she preps the horse in the wagon because when tied up outside the horse tends not to stay still, rather move around more with the hustle and bustle with everything I'm guessing.

Thirdly she does not actually remember how she ended up trapped but we guess she was knocked suddenly by the horse, whether or not she was stood on anything is a question as she is a short one, so if the horse did knock her off balance and she fell down I'm guessing she would have scrambled anywhere to get out of way but unfortunately could not.

Lastly, I have been told about the report in horse and house and will read it when get my hands on a copy but we have been told by the police there are investigations into the organization of the event, as imo the weather was forecast to be bad, there were heavy thunderstorms and downpours the night before and if you were to get everyone into the field a last minute plan for this would of been a good idea. This is obviously the polices job to find out.

Atki
 
What makes it difficult, is many horses would not have a problem with the tractor, therefore you can say the horse is responsible and not the tractor.
 
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