Help - Legal advice needed

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francesmlowe

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Three weeks ago I purchased a horse from a reputable dealer. The horse had been at grass for some while and I asked the dealer (who also takes in schooling liveries) if they would be willing to keep the horse for a couple of weeks and bring it back into work for me. They agreed and the deal was struck, I paid for the horse, for a set of shoes and for 2 weeks schooling livery.

As the yard was an hour and a half's drive from my home and the dealer had other commitments I only managed to visit the horse once during the two week period but I was due to visit last Friday morning. The horse was due to be transported to my home the following Monday.

On Thursday of last week I returned home from shopping to find frantic messages on my home phone that said my horse had become entangled in some fencing and was so badly injured that I would either have to send her for an operation or have her humanely destroyed.

I couldn't believe that this had happened. I spoke to the dealer and the vet that was in attendance and agreed to have the horse transported for the operation.

My horse was not very expensive but as she was only 6 years old I could not bring myself to have her destroyed.

I had not arranged to insure my horse as I had no reason to believe that any harm would come to her whilst she was in the dealers care (after all sha had been there for about 6 months already) and I had 3rd party liability cover for her through my BHS membership.

It has transpired that the dealer used some sort of stock mesh fencing that the attending vet said was maintained to a good standard but that my horse appeared to have backed into it and had got the wire caught between her hoof and shoe. No one knows how long she had been struggling for but when she was discovered by some of the other livery owners they called the vet immediately as the dealer was not present at the yard at the time.

I know that this was a very unlucky incident but I am the one being left to pick up the tab for something that I had no control over at the time.

Does anyone know what my legal rights are in a position like this? Or does anyone have any experience of anything similar and can advise me of the action that they took and the outcome?
 
Absolutely mad not to insure the horse. Horses can get themselves in to trouble at the drop of a hat.

Sorry, can't imagine what legal rights you have, the horse seems to have had an accident - one that could happen to any ones.
 
I would have thought you have no legal case against the dealer, after all you brought the horse and therefore if you don't insure it then thats the risk you take unfortunately.

Unfortunately, horses can have accidents anywhere, anytime - thats life and unfortunately a possibly expensive lesson to learn i am afraid.

Sorry not much help
 
Firstly really sorry about your horse being hurt, I hope she is going to be OK!
I am no legal expert, but I would think that as you had paid for the horse and also paid for livery it would be your responsibility to ensure the horse is insured. Most dealer probably wouldn't have insurance for each horse they have.
If the vet said that the YO's fence was maitained to a good standard then I would think that its not their fault.
You might have free legal advice with your BHS membership so might be worth checking with them!
Good luck
 
Sorry about your troubles but as I see it; you paid for the horse, it was yours and no matter that it was on schooling livery, I think you should have insured it yourself from the word go. Accidents do happen however careful people are and in this case, insurance would have helped. Others might see it differently but at sales, once the hammer has gone down it is up to you to insure it, the seller has no longer any need to if that makes sense.
Hope horse recovers soon and sorry it happened, but that's horses for you.
 
I thought that you could claim if the owner of the livery yard had provided a dangerous situation ie not repaired broken fencing or in this case provided unsuitable fencing which directly led to you horse being injured
 
I wouldn't have thought that you will have a case against the dealer, if you've handed over the money then the horse is yours and your own responsibility whether in your own care or not. Unfortunately accidents do happen. Hope your horse gets better soon.
 
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I thought that you could claim if the owner of the livery yard had provided a dangerous situation ie not repaired broken fencing or in this case provided unsuitable fencing which directly led to you horse being injured

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The Op doesn't say this is the case though....
 
I dont think there is anything you can do. unfortunately unless you have insurance the vets bills will land with you. most vets are pretty good about paying back monthly if needs be. I found my girlies opperation bills last week when tidying up the garage.. owch!
 
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The Op doesn't say this is the case though....

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No, I was just throwing it into the mix in case it was relevant because I didn't feel that I knew the whole facts from the short description that she gave. I really dislike stock fencing and wouldn't turn a horse out in a field with it but that may well not be enough on its own to make it the YO's fault.
 
I dont see there is a claim against the dealer at all. It is the owner's responsibility to insure and she leaves the horse at that yard at her own risk.
 
You have paid for livery at the yard THEY should be insured if they offer full livery which they have. You have paid for the goods-horse-but not taken delivery you should contact consumer direct who will put you in touch with trading standards. This is an extract from sale of goods act.
20. Passing of Risk



(1) Unless otherwise agreed, the goods remain at the seller's risk until the property in them is transferred to the buyer, but when the property in them is transferred to the buyer the goods are at the buyer's risk whether delivery has been made or not.



(2) But where delivery has been delayed through the fault of either buyer or seller the goods are at the risk of the party at fault as regards any loss which might not have occurred but for such fault.



(3) Nothing in this section affects the duties or liabilities of either seller or buyer as a bailee or custodier of the goods of the other party.



(4) In a case where the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, where there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, subsections (1) to (3) above must be ignored and the goods remain at the seller’s risk until they are delivered to the consumer.

Best of luck
 
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You have paid for livery at the yard THEY should be insured if they offer full livery which they have. You have paid for the goods-horse-but not taken delivery

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Yes she has - she has taken legal delivery of the horse, because she has accepted ownership, but then has placed it on livery with the same person. Two separate issues, i'm afraid.

I don't really understand how the Sale of Goods Act can apply here. The horse was sold, and passed into the ownership of the OP, who then made the separate decisions a) NOT to insure valuable property and b) to put the horse with the dealer for schooling livery. The dealer's insurance is only relevant if he/she is proved to be negligent, which so far, doesn't seem to be the case.

The livery owner has a duty of care to call the vet, but has no responsibility to see that the vet bills get paid. That is the responsibility of the owner of the animal.

Fingers crossed for the poor horse, though. i hope it will be all right.
 
I hate to say this and I haven't read the other posts but I think its horses will be horses and not insuring was prob not the best idea. In a way its even more important to have insurance when your horse is away from your care incase somone else looking after them does something fool hardy. The other point is that you knew that the stock fencing was there so you should have asked for better fencing / different paddock whatever at the time. The dealer would have a duty of care but IMO I think you wouldn't have a strong case based on what you have posted.

I am glad you gave your new horse a chance and I would just put it down to experience.
frown.gif
 
But surely the OP has taken delivery of the horse. However, they had decided to place the horse on schooling livery for 2 weeks. If the OP had not taken delivery then they would not have had a choice of where to place the horse???

I hope your horse gets better soon. However, I don't see how you have any recompense against the dealer. It seems like a freak accident on a (vet agreed) well maintained fence. You can't expect the YO to be onsite 24/7 and to constantly monitor the horses. It seems as though the correct action was taken by all parties.
 
Agree with Trundle. And the YO's insurance would only come in to play if it could be proved that the YO had been negligent.

Any horse can injure itself on fencing - regardless of the type. And providing the stock fencing was in good order then I can't see how the YO was negligent.

I have kept horses in fields fenced by stock fencing for 15 years - and have never, ever had a problem with it. It may not be everyone's favourite type of fencing - but it is not negligent to use it as fencing - just a more inexpensive option that post and rail.

The new owner of the horse did take delivery of it - it just happens that she put it on full livery with the people she bought it off ( a service for which she was paying). They were not 'storing' her purchase for her - so therefore she took delivery.

And quite frankly - for the sake of an extra £200 - why would someone not insure their horse. Just because it's never had an accident before???? What planet do people live on??
 


The dealer will have a duty of care for your horse once it is on their property.

To determine that the dealer is liable and that the fencing was at fault you will need to get an independent equestrian fencing expert to write a report on the fencing. I would suggest that you take some photos now.

Did you have a signed and dated contract with the dealer which states what you wanted the dealer to do with your horse and who was responsible for what?
 
You don't have any right in this situation - consider it an expensive lesson learned about the importance of insurance. You can never underestimate a horse's ability to injure themselves in the most benign circumstances.
 
I'm afraid I am tending to agree with the others, but if you are a gold BHS member (which you must be if you have insurance cover with them) why not phone one of their legal team which is free for you?
 
Please don't focus on the uninsured issue I merely stated this so that those responding would know that I did not have this as an option.

My query actually relates to the type of fencing in use. I did not know prior to leaving my horse at the dealers yard that this type of fencing was in use as the field my horse was kept in prior to purchase was a couple of miles away and the fencing there was different.

I did not have a contract in place with the dealer but merely a sales receipt confirming that 2 weeks schooling livery had been paid for.

Thank you for the info re consumer direct and fencing expert I will look into these.

For those that are interested the horse seems to be doing okay but only time will tell how well she will come through the ordeal.
 
As the dealer took the horse on paid for livery they are responsible for its well being.
I run kennels if someone leaves their dog with me I am responsible for its care and well being that is why I have to be insured.
Whether the horse was removed or not if is a seperate issue. A contract has been entered in to for a service when the yard owner took money to care for the horse.
If I am a child minder and you pay me to look after your child I am responsible for that child if that child has an accident I am at fault.
 
I would contact the trading standards or an equin e solictor as they will be best placed to offer advice. Its a legal problem you have and I would imagine its a fairly specialised area..
 
As many people know I hate this "Can I blame someone" culture. One thing though that may have been overlooked is from buying the horse to the accident happening appears to be less than 2 weeks. I note you say you had paid for a new set of shoes. I presume the farrier did not arrive within hours of the deal. So I am suggesting you take a look at the shoes. Was a new set fitted, if so when, more to the point did they fit correctly? It is a possible avenue to explore.
Hope the horse makes a full recovery.
 
It was the OP's obligation to satisfy herself that the yard was secure etc. Had she enquired of the fencing and been told that it was all post and rail then that would have been a condition of the verbal schooling contract and then she could have sued for breach and damage arising from her horse being injured by the stock proof fencing and not being kept in a post and rail fenced paddock.

I have been to see loads of livery yards with barbed wire fences and have seen lots of horses injured by those fences. The owners chose to leave their horses there, herefore took that risk. The same rule applies here.

Contacting a solicitor will probably cost more than the vet bill. Hope the horse is ok now.
 
Personally I would save money on solicitors fees and use it to pay the vet's bill - I work for lawyers and often in these situations they are the only ones to profit.

I hope your horse recovers ok, unfortunately accident can and do happen no matter how careful you are.

When I bought Farra, she was insured that day even though she was insured by the transport company. With Chancer, he stayed at the breeders for several months, I had paid a deposit on him but had not paid the final amount, hence he was under her insurance, I checked this was the case. Again he was insured from the moment I paid for him.

I personally insure from the moment I hand over the cash.

You could do as I do if money is tight, put it on a credit card and then transfer to a low rate one and pay off bit by bit, have done this several times over the years with Cairo's very expensive bills which were not covered under insurance.
 
I don't know why the poor OP's getting it in the neck for not being insured. The insurance wouldn't have covered anything for the first 14 days anyway!
 
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