HELP! legal advise!

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natalia

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Ok, so youa lways here of people taking dealers to court but what about the other way round?!

We sold a 13.2hh reg BSJA pony in january to a nice family for pony club and teaching their son to jump, the pony had been with us for 2 and a bit years and had been my bosses daughters 2nd pony, going to all PC including camp and doing BSJA ponies up to BN. Pony is 13 yrs old and has jumped to JA level in Ireland before coming here as a schoolmaster and to teach at lower levels (he had jacked it doing 128 cm tracks). We sold the pony as I said in january and he passed a full 5 stage vetting including bloods. In all the time we had him the only thing he ever had wrong was a tough of thrush when left out last winter. He was outgrown at the end of last summer and turned out till december, (so had a couple of months on holiday) he then came in and we worked him and sold him. They have now rung to say he has been inconsitantly lame, and that they wan thtier money back and are seeking legal advise, apperently they took him to one show a few weeks after they boiught him and he was great then he went lame. He has now had x rays and vet has found an old injury in the pelvis (which we were completly unware of) and something to do with a hind leg (also shown up on xrays which we never saw and they haven't described it properly so I can't tell you exactly where it is.).They are now saying they want their money back and to return pony, but as far as I'm concerned I sold them a sound fully vetted pony and they had a week after buying it to return it if it was wrong. The vet has recomended injections in to the joint which I have advised them to do, as they are insured, as it may be the pony returns to be sound enough for light work, in which case I have offered to either take the pony back and sell it again as a light hack or companion (with no sales livery fee as a goodwill gesture) or to take back a fully sound pony and retun the money . I won't take backa lame pony as sold a sound one. their recept clearly stated sold as seen, tried and vetted and passed a 5 stage vet exam and we have both signed this. What would anyone else do?
 
I wouldn't be offering to do ANYTHING for them TBH...they may construe this as you knowing something was wrong and so are being overly generous in helping them out?
 
it sounds as though you have done every thing to ensure you sold the pony sound. Every one knows that buting a horse is a risk no matter what precautions you take. They had a 5 star vetting to show the pony was sound, it's unfortunate, but I agree with Weezey on this one, you have done enough I would not be offering anything in this case.
 
Caveat emptor - or buyer beware....you didn't sell it unseen, and the pony was open to full vetting, and presumably bloods, which was their responsibility to arrange.
If their vet is saying it was a condition existing when he vetted the pony, and he missed it, then to my mind that's tantamount to admitting negligence. If he says it was undiagnosable without specialist equipment/vets, then it is unreasonable to expect you to know about it either.
Do nothing for them.
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If I was them and you were being so nice and offering to help then I would be wondering if you knew something?? Now I know that you knew nothing about his lameness, they had a 5* vetting and if there are now problems then they should claim through the vetting, its nothing to do with you.

Your obviously a conciencious person, I'd recommend a phone call to horse insurance legal team, who I am sure will tell you the same as everyone else here. If they contact you again, tell them you have sought legal advice and they do not have a leg to stand on. Its very sad, and a shame but not your problem.
 
I agree with everyone else. You had a 5* vetting WITH BLOODS, so there can be no comeback. Offer them nothing.
 
They are trying it on! If there is a problem, the Vet they employed for the Vetting should be thier first port of call... not you!

You have not decieved them, they satisfied themselvs that the pony was fine and it was fine on the day of vetting.

Ignore!
 
Dont offer them anything- as it does look suss that you are! Just leave it- let them batle it through court- and as long as your telling the truth then you will be fine! After all if it did happen you would have used a vet and this will show on records- but if youve been honest then there will be no record of injury so its not going to be held to be you selling pony not described. Plus pony was vetted... I think your fine, pony hasnt been with you all its life after all!
 
im just going to say the same as everyone else...it is a case of buyer beware..it was sold sound and with a vetting.....

dont do anything for them....just contact the citizens advice for more information.....
 
If your conscience is clear I wouldnt lose any sleep over it.If they have insurance which I think you mentioned they did then they can claim loss of use .As they had a full vetting perhaps you could have him back if they claim then find him the right home .Hope the poor pony is ok .
I bought a horse of a friend I loaned from on our yard and he has had many lameness issues ligament tendon and now he is recovering from surgery for hock fusion.I didnt have my boy vetted as I was already riding him but I wouldnt dream of making it a issue between us.She feels terribly guilty but its just one of those things.Neither of us knew he was going to be a problem hes only just turning 7 so was young and fit when I bought him you just dont know whats round the corner with horses.
 
I say the same of the others. You have his competition record, and if he was competiting regularly then he must have been OK.

It is a shame for the buyers - and the pony - but that is horse's I'm afraid.
 
If he had a 5* vetting with bloods done and he passed, then it is their hard luck I am afraid. I wouldn't be offering them anything. Tell them to take you to court if they like. I can't see how they could win this one.
 
I know nothing about the legal side but I dont think they have a leg to stand on. You sold a pony that passed the vetting and now has gone lame. It happens. The pelvis issue is an old injury as the vet has confirmed, it sounds like its been there for years possibly why he no longer jumped in Ireland as a JA??? How are you supposed to know about that.
I bought my horse, ok failed on a flexion test but was otherwise healthy, he cost me over £5k for tooth/sinus problems a few months later. Its like me saying I want my money back as you must have known he had a fractured tooth.
I wouldnt offer them anything, I realise you are trying to be fair but like the rest have said its a bit like admitting you knew there was a problem.
There are solicitors dealing purely in horsey issues, my friend used one and got the number from her vet, maybe it would be worth a chat with one.
Good luck I hope you get this sorted.
 
If you are a BHS or NFU member, call thier legal helpline.
You sold him in good faith, they had him vetted, he has has something go worng causing lameness, which may be nothing to do with the old injury that you were unaware of.

They should have insurance anyway.
 
I think I'm going to have to seek more in depth legal advise, we were very attached to the pony, which is why we are offering to take it back provided its sound as bosses daughter is now very upset and worried about what will happen to him as she never wanted to sell him in the first place but it seemed a shame for him to rot in a field when he could be teaching another child. They are basically saying that he was sold as a jumping pon and is not fit for purpose, but they have actually taken him to one show and got placed on him before he went unsound. They did have bloods done, so if they ring me again I'm going to ask them to have them tested as there will be nothing there. I don't want a bad repuation as these are the sort of people who will bad mouth you till they go blue in the face, so I would rather sort it out now and for the ponies sake. What shocks me is that they don't seem to want to get the joint injected although this is vets recomendation even though its on insurance!? The pony itself wasn't expensive (£2500 as we wanted a home for life and they promised this).
 
i was unfortunate enough to be in your posistion.

However the horse i sold was sold unvetted as the buyer did not want a vetting she was advised to but chose not to. She was told that the horse had a week off work due to lameness in the time that i had had him he had hunted and done all RC activities. 3 months down the line i got a call saying that horse was lame and she wanted her money back. I said no you have had him for this long and how do i know what she had done with him in this period of time.

She then said that she was going to take me to court. I said fine go ahead (after speaking to a equine solicitor) went to court she tried to say that i was a horse dealer and that i knew that horse had chronic arthritis and sesamoiditis (i had no experience of him being lame accept for said week)

Outcome of it all was that she lost the case and ended up having to pay my costs.

I wouldnt offer them anything if you need the advice of a good equine sol please pm me and i will give you the one that i used. and also if you want any more info
 
I understand you care for the pony but you have to be a bit careful. If you engage with them too much, it is possible you could be admiting liability (sorry, not a legal expert, just thinking out loud really), at which point they could demand the cost of the pony, plus compensation in livery and vets fees off you. If it were me, I would ask them to put their concerns in writing and reply in writing but only after you have consulted with a solicitor (many insurance companies offer this service for free).
 
Don't do anything. You sold them a sound pony. If anything, it's the vet that vetted the pony they should be taking this up with. Don't do ANYTHING, out of 'goodwill' or otherwise.

Sadly accidents happen and I'm sure we'd all love to be in the position where we buy a horse, have it for 6 months and then decide that we want our money back, or sadly it is injured and people want their money back. It's ridiculous and would not stand up in Court.

I would be civil to them but don't offer your help or give them their money back. Unfortunately for them it's a case of tough s*it!
 
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