Help! loose ring fulmer?!

[horselife1]

So I recently bought my boy a loose ring fulmer with a French link and today when I was trying it on I couldn't get it to "work", before I bought it I researched the bit and found it should be used with loops, however when I put the loops on I found that the loose ring was not 'loose' and the actual ring seemed to be grinding against the sides of the bit that it goes through, it also seemed all a bit squashed and it did not seem to be comfortable for him at all however when I took the loops of he was fine however I don't think its safe to ride like that. I hope someone can understand my problem TIA even if this seems like a stupid question.

 

[Jnhuk]

perhaps you could post a picture as trying to visualise what you are saying but unclear.

I have know folks to ride without the loops without issue but if you use them then they hold the bit in position more and can add a little poll pressure.

Just be a bit wary if your horse likes to rub his head on things/you though as can get caught up in things

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

You can use without the loops, the bit has a different action with/without so go with whatever the horse prefers. If you want to use loops you might need longer ones if everything is a bit squashed with the ones you've got.

 

[Wheels]

I use without loops and not had any probs - not advisable to tie up with haynet

 

[Nugget La Poneh]

The keepers don't interfere with the loose ring if put on properly? the loops should be fed through the billet/buckle of the cheekpieces and then popped on the stick bit of the fulmer - the rings don't come in to it?

 

[be positive]

The keepers don't interfere with the loose ring if put on properly? the loops should be fed through the billet/buckle of the cheekpieces and then popped on the stick bit of the fulmer - the rings don't come in to it?

Interestingly I googled for an image and they were all photographed upside down, the slightly bent part should be at the top to go through the loop, not as shown in 3 photos at the bottom, it may be that using it the wrong way does interfere with the action slightly, they really should be used with loops to hold the bit in the correct way.

 

[horselife1]

The keepers don't interfere with the loose ring if put on properly? the loops should be fed through the billet/buckle of the cheekpieces and then popped on the stick bit of the fulmer - the rings don't come in to it?

its so hard to describe but I've done exactly that and the stick bit of the fulmer gets pulled back a little as it should but goes at such an angle that the ring can no longer slide freely, its probably one of those things that can't really be solved thanks for the advice though.

 

[Nugget La Poneh]

This is how I have mine, and since your post have been trying to work out what you mean!

Is this how you have yours? The ring on mine is still loose, but it is more stable than maybe a loose ring snaffle.

He loves it - I have tried many a time to get him into a 'grown-up' bit and he makes it clear it not going to happen. The only exception is the bits I use for shows and fast work but I think both of those he associates with things he wants to do so just gets on with it!!

 

[Gloi]

Dying for a picture because I just can't work out what's going wrong.

 

[holeymoley]

I think the op may mean that once the attatchmrnts are on, the action of the loose ring is no more? I understand it like that. I don't see how a loose ring has much effect on a fulmer given it's on a fixed side ....

 

[supsup]

I had the same problem - the bit becomes much more "fixed" with the keepers on, there just isn't as much motion between bit and ring going on. I also wasn't sure that I liked how the keepers change the angle of the joints in the horse's mouth. Without the keepers, the bit rotates and the full cheeks are much more perpendicular to the horse's mouth than when fixed.
In any case, I rode many years without using keepers, without any problems. I made sure never to tie my horse up with the bit in, and not to allow him to swing his head around to the stirrups (have heard of one case of horse getting hooked on stirrups). In the end, I think the risk of getting hung up is really not much greater than with e.g. a double bridle or pelham with shanks sticking out the bottom, so long as the horse is supervised. I don't quite know why people are so worried about fulmers, but not about other types of bits with long pieces sticking out?

 

[be positive]

I had the same problem - the bit becomes much more "fixed" with the keepers on, there just isn't as much motion between bit and ring going on. I also wasn't sure that I liked how the keepers change the angle of the joints in the horse's mouth. Without the keepers, the bit rotates and the full cheeks are much more perpendicular to the horse's mouth than when fixed.
In any case, I rode many years without using keepers, without any problems. I made sure never to tie my horse up with the bit in, and not to allow him to swing his head around to the stirrups (have heard of one case of horse getting hooked on stirrups). In the end, I think the risk of getting hung up is really not much greater than with e.g. a double bridle or pelham with shanks sticking out the bottom, so long as the horse is supervised. I don't quite know why people are so worried about fulmers, but not about other types of bits with long pieces sticking out?

Fulmers, not full cheeks, need the keepers to hold the bit in the correct place in the mouth, without them it rotates too far forward then the joint is not in the right place and will be uncomfortable for the horse, it has nothing to do with holding the cheeks in a safer place to stop them catching, a full cheek cannot rotate the same way so does not require keepers.

When the fulmer was designed it was as a single jointed bit in the days before french links were in common use and until very recently they were only made as single jointed bits, a double jointed one may not require keepers to be comfortable.

 

[supsup]

Fulmers, not full cheeks, need the keepers to hold the bit in the correct place in the mouth, without them it rotates too far forward then the joint is not in the right place and will be uncomfortable for the horse, it has nothing to do with holding the cheeks in a safer place to stop them catching, a full cheek cannot rotate the same way so does not require keepers.

Fair enough, though I still don't really buy this argument. No other loose ring single jointed snaffle has/needs keepers to keep it from rotating into the "wrong" position. Depending on how much rein contact is taken, and where the horse puts his head, the joint may fold more towards the front teeth or the roof of the mouth. I guess there will always be horses that prefer are more mobile over a more fixed type of bit, or vice versa.