Help me identify this mystery bit, please.

[Keith_Beef]

OH has a bit of a thing at the moment for on-line auctions and among the jewellery, handbags, prints and oil paintings, she stumbled upon a bit that she thought I'd be interested in... I took a look, and said "I wouldn't put that on a horse, but it'd be interesting to study it a bit"... and she put in the winning bid.

She picked it up this morning and gave it to me.

It looks like some kind of a curb bit, but I don't have much knowledge on the subject, and I wonder even if it has been assembled right. I unhooked the lower shank on the right-hand side (so on the left in the first picture below) to turn it to be symmetrical with the left-hand side, but I don't know if it's correct now.







Could this even be two bits that have been joined together?

What I've photographed as the lower half looks like a more normal curb bit (though the attachment rings are quite small), hanging from hooks that might have been for a curb chain on the upper bit.

I'm even more confused, now, after looking at a picture of a double bit on Wikipedia.

 

[ester]

It's just two curb (ergo the curb from a double) that someone has used the curb chain hooks on to attach the other.

 

[Melody Grey]

It’s a curb but from a double bridle joined on to a Pelham via the curb chain hooks

sorry Esther- cross posted!

 

[J&S]

It isn't one bit, it is two. Unhook the curb chain hooks and you will have what has been explained above! They got there before me!

 

[ycbm]

And by the by, BOTH bits should have curb chain hooks on them.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

And by the by, BOTH bits should have curb chain hooks on them.

As above, 2 different bits, which have just been hoked together for convenience of storage. The top one has a mullen mouth piece and the lower one has a ported mouth piece.

 

[doodle]

The seller will be laughing their head off!

 

[cobgoblin]

It's for a two-headed horse.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Thanks, all of you, for confirming what I had suspected.

Could this even be two bits that have been joined together?

What I've photographed as the lower half looks like a more normal curb bit (though the attachment rings are quite small), hanging from hooks that might have been for a curb chain on the upper bit.

I'll separate them and take some more photos.

 

[Keith_Beef]

The seller will be laughing their head off!

I doubt it... two bits for the price of less than one.

Some more pictures.

Both the bits are stamped with what looks like G.PARKER & SONS LONDON SOLID NICKEL. A quick bit of googling finds an archive of a price list from George Parker, "Makers of High-Class Saddlery, Horse Clothing, Leather Bags and Trunks" in London.
https://archive.org/details/pricelist00geor

Mullen mouthpiece:


Ported mouthpiece:


So in the picture below:

1. the one on the left is a Pelham, and the one on the right a Weymouth?
2. the small rings part way down the shaft are for a lip strap?
3. are the curb chain hooks in the correct place?
4. where would the curb chain hooks go on the other one?

 

[milliepops]

So in the picture below:

1. the one on the left is a Pelham, and the one on the right a Weymouth?
2. the small rings part way down the shaft are for a lip strap?
3. are the curb chain hooks in the correct place?
4. where would the curb chain hooks go on the other one?

View attachment 40365

1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. on the top ring.

as they are nickel bits they are quite old fashioned. I wouldn't use a nickel bit these days (had a nickel stirrup snap in use once, had no signs of wear prior to that!)

 

[milliepops]

I'd also say that the large size of the loops for the lip strap is quite unusual these days. Few people seem to use them now, and the loops are either not present or too small to get a flipping strap through on many newer designs.

 

[splashgirl45]

you are right for the first 3 and the curb chain hooks go on the same place as the pelham

 

[Keith_Beef]

w00t.
Page 16 of the price list shows both these two bits as Polo bits made by J. Dewsbury & Sons Ltd, available in hand-forged steel or in "kangaroo metal" for some models or in super nickel for others.

 

[ester]

I'd also say that the large size of the loops for the lip strap is quite unusual these days. Few people seem to use them now, and the loops are either not present or too small to get a flipping strap through on many newer designs.

I've been told off for not having a lip strap lol.

I agree they are definitely larger on these.

 

[milliepops]

what's Kangaroo metal when it's at home?! Google is not helping!

 

[Gloi]

LOL it's two bits joined together to go through the auction as one lot.

 

[milliepops]

I've been told off for not having a lip strap lol.

I agree they are definitely larger on these.

I have used one on a double bridle as the curb hooks were too loose, but try getting a lip strap through the tiny holes on a NS Weymouth... it's hard work! the purist in me gave up.

 

[ester]

70% copper

I struggled too, though not NS his is quite short shank wise.

 

[ester]

Also KB you might find this interesting
How to identify a counterfeit John Dewsbury bit:

1. If a new bit is stamped on the mouth or on the rings, John Dewsbury, Kangaroo, or JD it is a counterfeit. Genuine John Dewsbury bits were made from 1832-2007 ONLY. However, John Dewsbury bits have not been stamped since the 1960’s as during product testing, we found the process of stamping our mouths and/or bit rings tends to distort them, damaging the integrity of the metal work making them more subject to breakage.
2. If the label says that the bit was made in China, the bit is a counterfeit. John Dewsbury bits have only EVER been made in England.
3. If it is a new bit and the label does not state ‘lifetime guarantee’ and ‘made in England’, then it is a counterfeit bit. Although take note, we did find some English-made counterfeits as well!
4. Check for any dark marks on your bit which cannot be cleared with metal polish -- these are ‘occlusions’. These are weak areas on your bit, caused by problems/faults in the metal/manufacturing process, and make your bit more subject to possible breakage! You will not find such marks on a genuine John Dewsbury bit, but as the formula for Kangaroo metal is a trade secret (like the recipe for Coca-cola), in the counterfeit bits, occlusions are common when they attempt to make them of Kangaroo metal.
5. ALL John Dewsbury bits are made of Kangaroo metal-- (or Aluminium Bronze) 70% copper. If the labelling says 'up to 70% copper' it is a counterfeit. ONLY John Dewsbury bits are made of Kangaroo metal, as the formula is a trade secret; it was never sold or given to ANYONE.
6. If the bit is both new and inexpensive, it is unlikely to be a genuine product, copper is a semi-precious material, and is significantly more expensive than stainless steel (and much more difficult to work with), which is what most of the counterfeits are actually made of.

 

[gugglebum]

????

 

[Keith_Beef]

Very interesting; thanks, Esther