Help me please! Horse rearing problem with vet/dentist

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Nels

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I have had my new horse 6 months and have been through a few rough times already (got him through high suspensory desmitis injury in near fore) but overall he is a laid back happy 5 year old who doesn't buck/rear when ridden and is an angel in the stable/field environment.

However, whena situation starts to stress him out he will stand quietly boiling up inside and then explode and release it all by rearing up vertically. He has done this in a horse box and broke the roof (so those theories that once a horse rears up and hits their head it puts them off rearing again are false!) so I am currently trailer training him very slowly to deal with his claustrophobia issues and I am confident his trust in me is growing and I will be happily able to travel him in the future.

But he still displays this behaviour when a vet tries to inject him or when the dentist tries to do his teeth. I have tried sedation but he fights that so much and still seems to manage to rear up and I feel the situation gets quite dangerous.

Has anyone had any similar problems and got any tips for overcoming them? It is the dentist problem that I am most concerned about.... he just will not have that metal gag instrument near him so uses rearing as a method to get away from it.....any suggestions welcome please.
 
This is probably controversial, but there are still some dentists who practise without a gag - it may be worth trying one on a recommend if you can find one?

When you say you've tried sedation, did the vet come out to do it, or did you give sedalin?
 
One of mine, Beau, used to be good as gold with the vet/dentist etc, but when a particularly heavy handed vet ended up chasing him around the stable tugging at a sarcoid he had that our shetland had bitten, well understandably it freaked Beau out a bit!

And since then he is very wary of strangers, it is genuine fear because of what that bloody vet did, but it doesnt make it easier to deal with, not when you consider beau is nearly 18hh, and when he rears, well thank god we have barn stabling!

Beau is the same, he gets more and more wound up, for example a month or so ago the vet came to give him his jabs, when she went near his neck he was going as if to bite her, just warning her though. when she didnt back off he starts kicking out with back legs in frustration against stable wall, push him further and the front legs start, smack him, and he gets more wound up, and will start rearing etc.

Last time we had to twitch him to give him his booster, it really upsets me because he used to be an angel.

So what I try to do now is invite new people to meet him, go in, pat him, give him a treat, then just leave him, so he doesnt associate new people with bad things happening.

Personally, if yours is that bad with the dentist I would have him sedatedas that gag is potentially a dangerous piece of equipment.

Other than that, perhaps just do what Im going, let new people go into his stable and potter with him, it seems to be helping with beau, he had mcTimoney not long ago and although he got a bit wound up he didnt rear.
 
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This is probably controversial, but there are still some dentists who practise without a gag - it may be worth trying one on a recommend if you can find one?

When you say you've tried sedation, did the vet come out to do it, or did you give sedalin?

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Really? I didn't know that - will do some investigating in my area...

Yes he was sedated by a vet. I haven't tried sedalin - can I administer that myself? Tried ACPs once but he resists them so well and I was worried about overdosing him!
 
The vet setated him? IV? Well it sounds like he just needed more.

We had one at our yard who freaks when he sees the gag, he is always sedated, heavily, and is certainly in no state to be rearing.
 
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One of mine, Beau, used to be good as gold with the vet/dentist etc, but when a particularly heavy handed vet ended up chasing him around the stable tugging at a sarcoid he had that our shetland had bitten, well understandably it freaked Beau out a bit!

And since then he is very wary of strangers, it is genuine fear because of what that bloody vet did, but it doesnt make it easier to deal with, not when you consider beau is nearly 18hh, and when he rears, well thank god we have barn stabling!

Beau is the same, he gets more and more wound up, for example a month or so ago the vet came to give him his jabs, when she went near his neck he was going as if to bite her, just warning her though. when she didnt back off he starts kicking out with back legs in frustration against stable wall, push him further and the front legs start, smack him, and he gets more wound up, and will start rearing etc.

Last time we had to twitch him to give him his booster, it really upsets me because he used to be an angel.

So what I try to do now is invite new people to meet him, go in, pat him, give him a treat, then just leave him, so he doesnt associate new people with bad things happening.

Personally, if yours is that bad with the dentist I would have him sedatedas that gag is potentially a dangerous piece of equipment.

Other than that, perhaps just do what Im going, let new people go into his stable and potter with him, it seems to be helping with beau, he had mcTimoney not long ago and although he got a bit wound up he didnt rear.

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Thanks for the reply. He is wary of new people - especially men - but when I got the new farrier out he was fine with him and his team of 4 people all working on him! Plus when I had the back lady out he was fine with her....he definitely gets nervous but we can keep him calm enough to stop the rearing. The other strange thing is that nothing else happens when he has 'had enough' of something - there is no running away, no bitting kicking or barging. He just snorts and goes straight up - often with very little warning. Then he returns to being quite calm again for the next few minutes - well until we try rasping/injecting again anyway!
It is the gag thing that worries me because I don't want anyone, or him, getting hurt. We have had to twitch him for his own safety when injecting him, and I hate doing that to him. If only he could understand what I am saying because he does trust me now but I can't get through to him that the rearing has to stop for everyone's safety as well as his. i am petrified he may go over one day onto his back....

I will try what you have suggested and he has had more people in the stable recently than normal and has been fine (a little wary snorting and backing off but soon won over with a pat or a carrot!). He really is a little angel 95% of the time...
The other thought I have had is swopping to a female dentist to see if that helps...and maybe get her to visit once a week just to get to know him and try putting the gag on gradually. I just dont' want him to 'get away' with not having it put on him because he may get worse in the future...but when he says no the rearing turns into a horrible fight which is so unlike his normal behaviour.
 
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The vet setated him? IV? Well it sounds like he just needed more.

We had one at our yard who freaks when he sees the gag, he is always sedated, heavily, and is certainly in no state to be rearing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is IV (which is hard to do when he hates injections) & I did ask for a big dose this time but will have to ask for more again next time...he just fights the drugs so well I am not sure how much more they can safely give him!
 
I know exactly what you mean! Beau is the sweetest horse, he taught my total nervous novice OH to ride, he has never put a foot wrong with me, thats why it breaks my heart, as Im sure it does yours, to see them act this way with 'strangers'.

Your boy sounds like Beau, in that if you were doing these things to him he woud be fine, its other people doing things that is the problem.

Im like you, I dont like to admit defeat, but we had to twitch him last time because he doesnt try to get away, he will stand and fight.

Vets have tried reassuring him, smacking him, leaving him a few mins, nothing works, the only thing that is making any difference is having him meet lots of people.

I havent had the dentist out since March (that was before the other vet scared him), but I will be getting the dentist again soon, so I imagine I will be faced with the problems you are, in which case I wil go staight for IV sedation, I would rather that than watch him get into such a state. In the past with youngsters Ive always said no, just keep doing it until they get used to it, its the only way, but I cant do that with Beau, he just gets too dangerous, and 18hh in an 11x11 stable doesnt give you a lot of room!

I always say to vet/physio etc, he REALLY is a sweet horse, then just see this evil big beast!
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Can I ask which dentist you use? I used one in Essex who started my horse rearing (was fine before) and now I have to have my horse fully sedated to do his teeth, he is getting better slowly but has been sedated and in stocks the last time cos he is so bad. He rears charges and strikes out at you with his front feet. Just interested in case it was the same dentist. Pm if you'd prefer. Needless to say I have never used that particular dentist again.
 
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Yes it is IV (which is hard to do when he hates injections) & I did ask for a big dose this time but will have to ask for more again next time...he just fights the drugs so well I am not sure how much more they can safely give him!

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The horse at our yard got a lot more than a horse his size should have had, he was fine, just had to be watched for a couple of hours, no food for 2 hours.
 
One of mine is like this and the only answer is the Vet rasping her teeth under heavy sedation (I/V injection) - theres no way that she could even contemplate rearing then and it is much safer for everyone!-

As he is young, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to heavily sedate.

Good luck!
 
Hi Nels - I was just about to suggest you try another dentist as I know from personal experience there are some out there that are willing to come out frequently and get to know your horse and take things VERY slowly to build up a trusting relationship....when I spotted where you live. The dentist I am refering too is based in Essex and is fabulous. I've moved away from that area but I still get her up to do my boys teeth as he is 100% comfortable with her know after she spent a while building up a friendship with him.

PM me if you want details.
 
Safina and Jo C - have pm'd you.

St_Bernard and K27 - thanks for your replies. I think heavier IV sedation next time probably will do the trick to stop most of the rearing (apart from the fact he has to be twitched to get the needle in which i don't like). But I am also tempted to try the gentle approach and see if I can get a dentist to spend some time with him and get him to realise it won't hurt him.

The other problem i have is that my horse has an overbite and so doesn't wear his teeth down naturally very well - so i have to have dental work done every 6 months to keep on top of it. This problem with his mouth does make me think he has been in pain there before so that could be why he hates having them rasped so much...
 
Just to say a horse quickly picks up if they sense the vet/dentist/whoever is not confident around tehm and this can cause them to freak out and panic. We have never had to sedate our horses as found a dentist who just seems to have a natural calming affect on them and he's brilliant. Sadly he is basically well over retirement age (he's an old jockey and just one of those people who horses naturally click with) so we'll have to look for someone else eventually.
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Anyway, at one stage we had a horse who we thought we'd try a second opinion dentist for as we were having various problems with. The moment this guy (with all the know how, name on his jacket and his 'assistant' with all the books) walked into te stable the horse panicked and even we could see this guy was not at all confident. To cut a long story short we had to sedate the horse for this guy to have a look and he didn't do anything that hadn't alraedy been done before. He did use a gag too, our dentist doesn't.

Therefore my tip would be, ask around, see if anyone can recommnend someone else, maybe your horse just needs someone he feels confident with.

Another ti for rearing (i have been told) is to tie thetail underneath to thegirth/roller and this should prevent a horse regoing up as they need their tail to balance. I did advise a friend of this and he tried it with success. i have not had to try it so far but wish we'd heard about it years ago when we had my sisters horse who was a regular rearer!
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Hi my horse is same as yours, was treated badly abroad before being imported over here, loves people but can be defensive if feels pressure or stress, takes 3 people for vet to inject ( his 17hh big lad ) im hoping with time and love he will settle down but at moment in stalemate, had to be sedated for dentist which was a game in itself with vets flying through air, did start to play up going in trailer but a few weeks trailer training helped and his much better know, i try so hard to reassure him but i suppose in the end of the day my horse hates vets like i have dentists !! i just try and stay calm but firm reassure and unfortunatly im going to have to put him in our horse friendly crush from now on as vet has insisted on it or wont jab him ( chicken!! ) its very hard and if you come up with any good advice that works let me know!
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LadyT and Mickey17 - thanks for the posts, makes me feel like I am not alone with this problem!

LadyT - the dentist I am using is very confident and I can't fault him with how he does his job at all - he is very well renowned in my area and luckily isn't scared when my horse goes up (he is the vet as well so does both the sedation and the dental work) but the horse seems to totally dislike him which I don't think is helping! I think you have been very lucky to find a dentist that is so in-tune with the horse - seems a rarity nowadays!
I haven't heard that tip about the tail so think I may give that a go and see if that stops him....I can just imagine his face if I do that to his tail!

mickey17 - That sounds just like my horse - he was imported from Germany as skin and bone - and fingers crossed ours both will settle over time. It is so frustrating because he actually turns to look at me as if asking me to stop it all...I do think he trusts me so I am confident I can calm him in the end. If I get any further with this problem I will let you know!
 
Mine gets very rude when the vet comes. Have not had him long enough to have the dentist up yet though. He had to be sedated IV twice before we got him to be calm and I could pull his mane/clip him (this was last year). Then one time he had to have staples in his leg and even though the vet put in three sedations..two in vein, one in muscle..and he looked like he was going to fall over, he still reared every time a staple went in. Can't twitch him as it is impossible and his lip in tinnny.

SO, just plenty of reassuring and a lot of time and patience and trust building. Giving him a scoop of his favourite feed helps a little too. He is perfect to clip/mane pull/load..everything now but still gets a bit pushy with the vet, but nowhere near as bad.

Good luck!
 
Nels - well i think as much info as you can get is helpful - just a shame this forum wasn't about or I didn't know of it when we had our rearing horse - would have loved to have tried the tail thing with him as he was a avery talented horse just don't think he knew it and panicked!

Wish you all the best with your problem. Horses are trying animals aren't they!
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Gosh he sounds just like one of mine, rears when stressed, playing, annoyed or really at anything. He also hated strange men. I have found as I have owned him for a while he has calmed down a lot and he really has the most fabulous temprament now. He does still rear but it has dramatically reduced. I always make him move away from me to establish myself as 'leader' but I think what really worked was to just completely ignore him when he reared, think he was used to getting away with things and getting attention by rearing (he is very attention seeking). I always make a huge fuss of him when he stops, but completly ignore him when he goes up whether riding him or on the ground, i even used to turn my back on him when on the ground (scary at first) but it has worked. I have noticed though he is very sensitive to the slightest hint of aggression (even if I move quick he can get tense )so I always try to keep as calm as poss. Hope this helps
 
Dan is like this - he rears whenever I do something he doesn't like - clipping his chin, hosing his neck, washing his mane near his ears and especially with vets and dentists, particularly male ones. Will occasionally rear ridden when made to stand still when exciting things going on, but mostly an angel ridden, devil to handle. I use a pressure halter to handle him around the vet/dentist which does help - he has to be heavily sedated for dentist as otherwise he wakes up when they put the gag in and start rasping. getting the sedative in IV can be a complete nightmare. he is 100% better with females so i try and get them all the time now - at 22, i doubt he will ever get out of the habit - i just persist with things, his rearing doesn't get him out of what he doesn't like, i just resume as soon as he comes down again. cant twitch mine because he associates it with nerve blocks, goes vertical and throws himself around so much it's dangerous. he has hit his head many times and it hasn't put him off rearing yet. it is a bad habit, and a difficult one to break.
 
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