help me with my assignment... anatomy & physiology/lower leg boffs... pleeease?

Bowen4Horses

Bowen4Horses

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hello all!

hope you're all having a lovely evening... i'm stuck on an assignment where i have to (amongst a squillion other things) study/research the circulatory system and 'describe a dysfunction/disease' relating to it...

now... i'm particularly interested in the role of the frog in the foot as a 'pump' so would REALLY like to focus on that as my 'dysfunction/disease'. ideally, i'd like to find something to talk about that happens as a result of the frog not making contact with the ground as this is something that fascinates me, and i think will come in most handy in my future career...

however, i've hit a bit of a mental block.

does anyone know of a 'dysfunction/disease' that occurs as a result of the frog contracting/being cut away/not being able to 'pump correctly?

thoughts? :D
 
This might not be the right sort of thing you are after but...

We have just done the lymphatic system in Equine Biology, and we were told that the frog is used help to pump the lymphatic fluid up the leg. This only works when the horse is in movement hence why if you have stabled horse you may find them with filled legs in the morning :)

Not sure if that was any help or if it was at all right! I think that what my teacher said, it was a week ago and my memory is awful :rolleyes:
 
You like to make things difficult for yourself don't you!!

If the frog is cut, or has rotted away it would not make contact with the ground, although this may cause filling of the leg it is not really a disease - but suppose it does come under the category of dysfunction!

What about laminitis - that is a circulatory issue as (as I understand it) the blood supply to the laminae is the first to suffer when there are imbalances/toxins within the blood supply. One of the first aid measures are the frog support - presumably to support the foot and promote the blood supply??


Lymphangitis - not really a lack of frog/pump issue I don't think but would be an interesting one to look into. Have seen a few horrific cases recently, legs so filled that they are endanger of the skin breaking down - very nasty...
 
ElphabaFae said:
This might not be the right sort of thing you are after but...

We have just done the lymphatic system in Equine Biology, and we were told that the frog is used help to pump the lymphatic fluid up the leg. This only works when the horse is in movement hence why if you have stabled horse you may find them with filled legs in the morning :)

Not sure if that was any help or if it was at all right! I think that what my teacher said, it was a week ago and my memory is awful :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

ha, i have a memory like that... :)

i've also got to look at lymphatic system in the same assignment, so i think i need this bit to be more about blood circulation in general... if that makes sense? in your next lesson, i think you should ask for me... ;) and maybe write down the answer... there must be an illness/disease/dysfunction... :confused:
 
Don't quote me on this one, but I think it slows healing of tendon injuries etc due to the lack of blood supply.
Darn, my mind's gone blank :/ Sorry, I'm not much help
 
Good grief is this some kind of self inflicted punishment!!

I have no idea what it is called but a very old pony belonging to a friend of mine suffered from a form of foot rot caused by his frog not making contact with the ground and thus not pumping blood around & this in turn causing the surrounding tissue to die.

Not sure if that is any help at all but best I can do.
 
bertthefrog said:
You like to make things difficult for yourself don't you!!
Click to expand...

yes, indeed i do... i know there are much more simple things to talk about in the circulatory system... but this absolutely fascinates me. even though the leg dissections i have to do make me want to spew out of my nose.... so i'd REALLY like to write about something that fascinates me... :)

If the frog is cut, or has rotted away it would not make contact with the ground, although this may cause filling of the leg it is not really a disease - but suppose it does come under the category of dysfunction!
Click to expand...

i want something meaty/scary that i can scare all my clients with... to make them turn their horses out, get them moving, have them trimmed/shod properly... *evil laugh* but yes, i guess filled legs is a dysfunction... :)


What about laminitis - that is a circulatory issue as (as I understand it) the blood supply to the laminae is the first to suffer when there are imbalances/toxins within the blood supply. One of the first aid measures are the frog support - presumably to support the foot and promote the blood supply??
Click to expand...

i did think of this, but, as i have another mega assignment on laminitis i was hoping to find something else... hmmm...

Lymphangitis - not really a lack of frog/pump issue I don't think but would be an interesting one to look into. Have seen a few horrific cases recently, legs so filled that they are endanger of the skin breaking down - very nasty...
Click to expand...

oooh, i'll dig out my books and look at this one... see if i can connect it... :D
thank you! x
 
clipcloppop said:
ha, i have a memory like that... :)

i've also got to look at lymphatic system in the same assignment, so i think i need this bit to be more about blood circulation in general... if that makes sense? in your next lesson, i think you should ask for me... ;) and maybe write down the answer... there must be an illness/disease/dysfunction... :confused:
Click to expand...

Now blood circulation I can do! Unfortunately my work on the lymphatic system is at college at the moment as my teacher is marking it otherwise I could have been more help :rolleyes:

We have done the circulatory, respitory, digestive & lymphatic systems so far, sensory system next week :D
 
JessandCharlie said:
Don't quote me on this one, but I think it slows healing of tendon injuries etc due to the lack of blood supply.
Darn, my mind's gone blank :/ Sorry, I'm not much help
Click to expand...

now i feel like a twit, this is true indeedy. i knew this... brilliant!
ooh, do you think it counts as a dysfunction/disease?
hmmm...

oh bums. i should probably take a step back and go for an easier topic, there are SO many easy things to write about.. why did i want to do this?! :eek:
 
Gluttonforpunishment said:
Good grief is this some kind of self inflicted punishment!!

I have no idea what it is called but a very old pony belonging to a friend of mine suffered from a form of foot rot caused by his frog not making contact with the ground and thus not pumping blood around & this in turn causing the surrounding tissue to die.

Not sure if that is any help at all but best I can do.
Click to expand...

someone on here the other day had a photo of a dead looking frog... hmmm... i wonder if they know the name for it?

p.s. are you coming to the table top sale in thorney on thursday evening? x
 
Naaah - easy is boring.

Tendon tissue, and even more so, ligament tissue has a very poor blood supply - hence, as stated previously, the length of time required for repair. Although interesting, I wouldn't class this as a circulatory disease or dysfunction - as it is the norm - so be careful that you don't get so carried away that you miss the point of the brief!

(So speaks the tutor... have taught equine science for the last two years for my sins!! All my students loved the dissections - blood thirsty lot you students!!)
 
Oh and if you want some gory pictures - the following three books are fantastic, used by vets as case studies to practise for their exams!

Self assessment colour review of equine internal medicine

Self assessment colour review of equine orthapaedics and rheumatology

Self assessment colour review of equine reproduction and stud medicine

Cost about £25 each but can often pick them up for peanuts on ebay!

I have used them so much in lectures - brilliant!!
 
bertthefrog said:
Naaah - easy is boring.

Tendon tissue, and even more so, ligament tissue has a very poor blood supply - hence, as stated previously, the length of time required for repair. Although interesting, I wouldn't class this as a circulatory disease or dysfunction - as it is the norm - so be careful that you don't get so carried away that you miss the point of the brief!

(So speaks the tutor... have taught equine science for the last two years for my sins!! All my students loved the dissections - blood thirsty lot you students!!)
Click to expand...

i would have been fine with the dissections if it hadn't been for the hair on the leg... it made it too 'real'. oh, and the smell.. *gag*
it was, however, absolutely amazing. to feel how the leg moves etc.

i'm now getting myself all confuzzled (not helped by the fact i need sleeeeep).


basically the question is:
study and research the following:
the circulatory system
the lymphatic and urinary systems
the respiratory system
describe how each of these systems relate to one another. describe one dysfunction or disease from each group and discuss how Equine Bowen Therapy may help.

i'm aiming for about 10k words. and i want to get a distinction... :o

am i over complicating things by wanting to find a circulatory disease/dysfunction that relates to the frog not pumping properly? perhaps there are much more simple things to talk about... humpf... :confused:

i'm going to have to go to bed tonight with my A&P books i think... ;)
 
Hi there
What about Navicular disease??
Though this disease may cause contracting heels and the frog to shrink not the other way around. HTH.... Good Luck!!
 
ponyluv said:
Hi there
What about Navicular disease??
Though this disease may cause contracting heels and the frog to shrink not the other way around. HTH.... Good Luck!!
Click to expand...

oooooh... it can also be caused by overtrimming of the frog... causing toe-first foot action/strain on deep digital flexor etc blah blah blah... but... still don't think i can get that into the circulatory bit... i do have a navicular assignment coming up in the year though... :eek:

c'mon peeps, there MUST be an ailment caused by not enough blood pumping up the leg? buggerations, looks like i'll be writing about something boring/easy instead... :D
 
How about thrush? Frogs that don't come into contact with the ground, and aren't 'used' properly in a heal first landing often have thrush. Not sure if the thrush comes about because of the lack of abrasion with a foot fall like that, or if the thrush comes about due to the compromised circulation? If the frog (and digital cushion - uber important pumping part!) aren't used then contracted heels and deep central suculus on the frog are common - the deep central suculus then being a perfect home for thrush. The toe first vs heel first landing bit also relates to tendon injuries and navicular.
Waffly but hopefully helpful? (am a bit of a hoof nerd since my girl had her shoes off a couple of months ago so am an avid reader of info on things like the above, though am afraid my memory isn't so fab though!)
 
How about sheared heels? Not sure it fits the bill but worth a try.

My daugher's horse has sheared heels, caused by the contraction of the frog. His frogs have always been pathetic, shrivelled things, but are now diseased as well. They stink, and because the sulcus has to grow down again, we have to sort the infection before the sheared heels will heal, and we have been applying every potion known to horsewoman-kind (helped by two vets and one master farrier).

However the more exciting fact (from your point of view) is that the second vet said the sheared heels are a symptom of a deeper cause.

He is a warmblood, with boxy upright feet, and she feels that over the years his feet have been contracting.

But it is chicken and egg - did the frogs contract and lead to boxy feet, or did feet contract and make his upright feet even more so? He may have arthritic changes to the coffin joint (not insured so not able to pay £1500 quoted price for definitive MRI scans) so trying various options. Currently using gel pads, which have actually improved his frogs noticably over the last 6 weeks.

Do you want more info? I could manage 10k words on this no problem :) but not sure if the circulation issue is involved enough.
 
This might be a good place to start....

http://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/articles/Foot_Function.pdf

LLewelyn - a good investment for deep central sulcus infection in frogs is Hoof Stuff from Red horse products - http://www.red-horse.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72&Itemid=58

Pack it into the frog and change it daily - in 3-4 weeks the frog should have completely healed.

I suspect your feet have got like this due to the constant use of shoes and the hoof not being allowed to distort. Have you thought about actually taking the shoes off and giving the feet a chance to heal themselves?

Don't mean to preach to you by the way, but just something I come across on too frequent a basis!!
 
Llewelyn said:
How about sheared heels? Not sure it fits the bill but worth a try.

My daugher's horse has sheared heels, caused by the contraction of the frog. His frogs have always been pathetic, shrivelled things, but are now diseased as well. They stink, and because the sulcus has to grow down again, we have to sort the infection before the sheared heels will heal, and we have been applying every potion known to horsewoman-kind (helped by two vets and one master farrier).

However the more exciting fact (from your point of view) is that the second vet said the sheared heels are a symptom of a deeper cause.

He is a warmblood, with boxy upright feet, and she feels that over the years his feet have been contracting.

But it is chicken and egg - did the frogs contract and lead to boxy feet, or did feet contract and make his upright feet even more so? He may have arthritic changes to the coffin joint (not insured so not able to pay £1500 quoted price for definitive MRI scans) so trying various options. Currently using gel pads, which have actually improved his frogs noticably over the last 6 weeks.

Do you want more info? I could manage 10k words on this no problem :) but not sure if the circulation issue is involved enough.
Click to expand...

isn't it fascinating? i'll look into all this, thank you for the info. is he barefoot or shod? what does your farrier think about it?

oh, and you're MORE than welcome to write my assignment for me... ;) i'm DROWNING in work this week! :D
 
He is currently shod, because farrier wants to stabilise the foot. It's catch 22, take shoe off, frog improves, but without the shooe there is too much movement in the hoof (first vet says he puts the hoof down outside first which causes unequal pressure) so we are sticking with shoes on at present.

But the frog is not doing its job at all, the infection is deep seated, we have tried hydrogen peroxide, now using a purple spray which has a long thin straw tube which gets right into the crack, he sometimes has a digital pulse which is when we know the infection is winning again.

Second vet felt that things had gone too far internally, as in the foot had changed shape and also mooted navicular as a possible cause. But farrier doesn't think so and is pleased with the frog's improvement with gel pads. With no pressure on the frog the infection never went, if we missed one day with the spray we had raging digital pulse again, but now with gel pads on and the frog making contact with something, the infection is hugely reduced, so has increased circulation improved the infection?
 
The pads and gel will be giving some stimulus to the frog by being in contact with it - they will also be keeping it clean and dry.

The trouble with hydrogen peroxide and purple spray is they are necrotising, so although they kill the infection they also kill healthy tissue which then in turn gives the infection more tissue to live off - its a vicious circle.

The great thing about the Red Horse products are that they are not necrotising and only kill the microbes - they are gentle yet effective.

If the hoof is really unstable without shoes there are other options that I have used myself to great effect such as Perfect Hoof Wear or hoof casting material. These are great as an interim between shoes and barefoot.
 
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