Help me

[collie92]

I have a thoroughbred gelding , nearly 3years. I've had him since 6 month old . Problems are appearing , for my trainer he does everything asked with no hesitation. Me just a no..
Any advice please as I am starting to leave the yard daily on the brink off tears and frustrated and so stressed. Most days when my trainer is on the yard it's when I can't get there the same time but I don't like bothering him and feel little embarrassed with havin to ask for help all the time.

Problem 1. When walking from or to his stable been hand lead he stops at every haynet in sight starts eating at them and will not budge forward. I've tried all the give and let go pressure no joy
Problem 2 . Getting him to move back out off my space no matter the pressure waving leadrope , bumping lead rope no movement back
Problem 3. On the lunge line
Going to start a little work on th3 lunge for the trainer he dosnt anything asked on the lunge. For me he stands and stares at me I move aside raise lunge way I want him to go he walks either in to me or moves head opposite way , hindquarters move no front movment. Come to a point today after I litrally tried everything to move him out in my power he fly kicked at me and launched towards me. Lunge whip he dsnt move , flag he dsnt move. He moves in or bum to side or gets really domineering to me. I've growled I've hissed I've kicked dust u name it I have proberly tried it
I feel so down with it all . Never had a youngster before so all new but I've watched videos I've read books
But I have been in the horsey world for 15 years and never had this problem . But iam at a loss and upset

 

[Arzada]

Book a session with your trainer and get your trainer to teach you how to deal with all 3 'problems'

 

[bonny]

Sorry to hear about your problems with your horse and I can’t help but wonder if he is just too much horse for you ? Maybe you need to be honest with yourself and find him another home and get yourself an older horse who you can get along with. Life is short and I suspect your three year old has already learnt to ignore you and I doubt the situation will get better anytime soon. Apologies if that’s not the case but you’ve had him for three years so I imagine you have been having problems with him for a while and he has you sussed.

 

[Gloi]

For all the problems you need your instructor to teach you how to be more assertive.

 

[collie92]

In the 3 years I have had him I have taught him loads and he has respected most off wat I have taught him. He was a young foal when I got him , took from his mother far to young and never had human contact. I got him from a dealer . I have taught him trust , confidence , desensitised him . Other than lunging to be honest I can handle him just little things here and there he forgets his manners. I would never get rid as I've had him from a down and depressed little foal and brought him up to be a friendly kind horse. It will be me at fault he's seeing me as more his friend than teacher. Which I need to pass through. I do have a few anxiety problems and confidence to which I don't like to bother my trainer much as I feel like iam just useless and will never grasp properly how to do it. X

 

[Barton Bounty]

Sounds like he does not see you as the Alpha so to speak. He doesn’t respect you. I also agree to get your trainer to teach you to be more assertive so he listens to you

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

Agree with above, I don't think the two of you are a good match. I don't think this is the right horse for you.

If you disagree with me (which is fine) the route you need to take is regular groundwork lessons and then someone working with your horse regularly to bring him on.

 

[collie92]

How would I make myself the alpha after so long. Yet if I walk him anywhere and I ask him to stop he does and stands. I can brush him all day long. I can faff on with rugs and straps round legs I have shower him lead him to field etc. So somewhere h3 must have some respect for me?

 

[Arzada]

I don't like to bother my trainer much as I feel like iam just useless and will never grasp properly how to do it.

If people didn't bother trainers ie book a session with them then they would be out of a job. And living on baked beans and dry bread. It's a trainers job to train and if their training style doesn't sufficiently match your learning style then try a different trainer

 

[KittenInTheTree]

He's three. Everything in him is in a state of flux. Turn him away in the company of other young horses until he is six and then have him backed and ridden away professionally for you. Meanwhile, enjoy just watching him mature. He will not forget anything that he has been taught so far. I dare say that others will be along presently to blither on a lot of outdated nonsense about six being too old to wait for backing horses. It is not. Six is when the last of their bones finish growing.

 

[Carrottom]

I would also suggest you may benefit from a session with a different trainer, to concentrate on you rather than the horse.

 

[sportsmansB]

Its great that you have recognised there is an issue and asked for help.
It does sound like he doesn't feel he needs to follow your instructions, or they aren't clear enough for him, but he knows he has to follow those of your trainer. or understands them better
This point in a horses life is where we are setting them up for the rest of their days - and if they are obedient, respectful of space, and have a good attitude, then we are giving them a much better chance of a happier life later on.
I do know what it is like not wanting to speak up and ask for help for fear of being a bother, but maybe you could text your trainer and ask for a series of lessons together (a Christmas present from someone? Doesn't actually have to be, but gives a reason for the text!)

 

[Wishfilly]

I can't advise on the other points, but when you talk about backing up, do you make it very explicit in terms of what you want him to do? You talk about waving the leadrope etc, and I know this is used as a back up cue in some types of horsemanship, but to me, it's not an obvious cue. Will he back up with pressure on the chest/nose/mouth (if he is bitted)?

I actually do think a youngster who won't move back out of your space when asked is a major issue and can ultimately become a safety concern. A lot of people talk about being able to move all four of the horse's feet whenever you want, and regardless of whether you view things as "alpha" or not (I don't, and I don't think horses follow this sort of social structure naturally), I do think it is a key life skill for a youngster.

Personally I would teach backing up ASAP with pressure and release, but I'm sure you could equally do it with R+ or in another way, but it seems like he doesn't currently understand the cue you are giving. My aim would be to attach a vocal cue to the action e.g. "Back up" or "Go back", and then you could transfer this to waving the leadrope if you wanted. However, I do think he must move when you want him to- it is a safety issue, not just for you but for others as well!

 

[Cortez]

Obviously if your horse is not listening to you then you need to change what you're doing. You probably won't like my suggestion, but you need to toughen up a bit and insist that he pays attention and does what you ask. How, I hear you ask? This is the bit you won't like: horses, especially young ones growing into the equivalent of horsey teenagehood, need the odd reprimand, including an occasional whack. Ask your trainer for how to do it.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

You need to get tough it sounds like his become over familiar with you especially if he was weaned too early and you have handled him since.

He looks at you as being one of his mates and an equal rather than a leader.

 

[oldie48]

I hate to say this but this is a nasty accident waiting to happen. You can read all the books in the world and watch every video on the planet but that won't necessarily give you the skills to successfully work with a youngster and there's absolutely no shame in admitting it. I've been around horses somewhat longer than you and would never even entertain the idea of buying a foal with the intention bringing it on myself. You need to ask for help, be prepared to pay for it and you still might find yourself struggling or you sell on. The worst scenario is you get hurt and the horse gets spoiled through no fault of it's own, please don't let that happen. Sorry to be so blunt but kind words won't solve your problem.

 

[gallopingby]

Book a session with your trainer and get your trainer to teach you how to deal with all 3 'problems'

I agree with this but quite honestly if things aren’t working out after three years maybe now is the time to think of stopping to an older more obliging horse that you can have some fun on.

 

[irishdraft]

Obviously if your horse is not listening to you then you need to change what you're doing. You probably won't like my suggestion, but you need to toughen up a bit and insist that he pays attention and does what you ask. How, I hear you ask? This is the bit you won't like: horses, especially young ones growing into the equivalent of horsey teenagehood, need the odd reprimand, including an occasional whack. Ask your trainer for how to do it.

This is exactly what a trainer said to me about my mare when I took her for advice on a couple of things. You have to be purposeful in demeanour and action and if their not listening you get their attention. This particular trainer used a rope halter, moving the feet & a schooling whip tapping the shoulder until the mare listened and did what was asked.

 

[Skib]

You can read all the books in the world and watch every video on the planet but that won't necessarily give you the skills to successfully work with a youngster

Although I agree with this I myself did find it helpful to pretend to be someone else. I would lead the horse, mimicking a competent male trainer.
The idea of riding, pretending to be someone good at riding comes from Perry Wood. But it works for leading and backing up too.
Doing ground work this way, possibly with four poles in a square on the ground or laid out side by side helps a lot.

One can also pretend to be having a lesson from a particular teacher or trainer. Rather than just muddle along, work out what that RI would be telling you to do, and do it.

 

[Wishfilly]

You need to get tough it sounds like his become over familiar with you especially if he was weaned too early and you have handled him since.

He looks at you as being one of his mates and an equal rather than a leader.

Yes, I thought the early weaning might be a bit of a red flag. I know it's not quite the same, but I've met a few horses who were hand reared, and they were universally very bolshy and in your face.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Yes, I thought the early weaning might be a bit of a red flag. I know it's not quite the same, but I've met a few horses who were hand reared, and they were universally very bolshy and in your face.

I've known a few hand reared as well and they were a bit of a nightmare

 

[SEL]

Yes, I thought the early weaning might be a bit of a red flag. I know it's not quite the same, but I've met a few horses who were hand reared, and they were universally very bolshy and in your face.

I've got one She'll be 14 next year and the halo rarely slips these days but I was very black & white with her as a youngster

OP I used a dually halter when leading to stop her towing me wherever she felt like. There are other halters that give you a bit more control if they're being rude.

For backing up take yourself into the arena to practice - you can make use of the fence to give you a barrier on one side. Ask once and if you don't get a response make your ask much bigger and with much more energy. Get that step back then stop and reward. Repeat.

It's much easier to learn how to lunge on a horse who already knows what they're doing - can you get some lessons?

 

[collie92]

Even to the point off tryin to back him up everything I try does not fase him he stands solid . Get my self so chewed up as iam doing all I've seen be done with him x

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Then, I'm afraid you are not asking firmly enough. Forget the rope wiggling etc and insist that he goes back. Mean it, don't give up until he has gone back as instructed.

 

[pique]

OP, it might help to think of this as a grand opportunity to become a better horseman. That is not an easy assignment, especially for those of us who want a "lovey" relationship with our horses and so unintentionally spoil them. It requires changing yourself. You have to become the leader that your horse absolutely requires. And this is true for *all* horses, not just hand raised colts.

Now, it's perfectly okay if you don't want to take on that challenge. If you don't, please get yourself a different horse, one that already understands respect, before you get seriously injured.

Though it is my opinion that even a well mannered horse will soon become dangerous if his handler isn't a leader. So, really, find a teacher who will help you find your inner leader so that you can have a happy life with horses.

 

[Wishfilly]

Even to the point off tryin to back him up everything I try does not fase him he stands solid . Get my self so chewed up as iam doing all I've seen be done with him x

If he does it for someone else, not for you, then it is probably something related to your body language BUT I would also get your trainer to teach him an easy to replicate cue e.g. hand on the chest/vocal cue etc, which he responds to automatically. If he does it for someone else, but not for you, it's not well installed enough- what if he needs to back up for a vet/farrier/etc?

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

You need the input of a trainer experienced with young horses. If this is your first youngster I think this needs to be a non-negotiable - you need someone who can watch what you are doing and correct you if you are going to have a hope of correcting the horse. It doesn't seem at all reasonable or fair on yourself to expect to just be able to do it.

In the 3 years I have had him I have taught him loads and he has respected most off wat I have taught him. He was a young foal when I got him , took from his mother far to young and never had human contact. I got him from a dealer . I have taught him trust , confidence , desensitised him . Other than lunging to be honest I can handle him just little things here and there he forgets his manners. I would never get rid as I've had him from a down and depressed little foal and brought him up to be a friendly kind horse. It will be me at fault he's seeing me as more his friend than teacher. Which I need to pass through. I do have a few anxiety problems and confidence to which I don't like to bother my trainer much as I feel like iam just useless and will never grasp properly how to do it. X

I'm not usually as forthright as this, but you really need to think about whether you can shift out of this mindset because if you can't then it's unlikely you will learn as you've already given up.

In the short-term I would guess this transfers over to what you are doing with the horse, it might be subtle in your body language but he's getting the message that you're not quite sure. I once needed help with a share horse who could be really rude and his owner just let him get away with it. A more experience person showed me how to get him out of my space/listening to me and once I'd established that all it generally took was for me to stand up a bit taller, shoulders back, giving 'this is my space/I am here' vibes. He was then much more pleasant and safe to handle!

Longer-term, if you've decided you're never going to 'get it' this has implications for this horse's education and you would need to have a good think about whether he needs someone else to take him on the next steps.

 

[lme]

Not sure I believe in the need for 'respect' or the human needing to be the 'alpha' but you do need to learn how to communicate clearly. I'd maybe get some specific lessons with your trainer on the areas you find difficult.

 

[little_critter]

Agree, you need to project your intent.
My boy is fairly well behaved but I’ve been hand walking him for rehab recently. I found that getting him to turn and not block me irritating.
I noticed that if I visualised that I was an army major with a chest full of medals, and I puffed out my chest (not really physically puffing out my chest, just visualising it) and also ’fix’ my chest to the point to which I’m turning and ‘believe’ we are turning to that point, then my horse made space for me. He could see my intended path and could get out of my way/ keep with me on the turn.
Horses don’t understand “please if you wouldn’t mind awfully….”
But they do get “we are doing x”
You don't have to be forceful, you just have to be clear.
Like if you are a toddler and your mum says “give me your hand” as you approach a road. She is not forceful, she is not dominating you, but shes giving a clear instruction that you can follow (willingly)

Ref pulling you to haynets my old girl was a bugger for pulling me to grass. You have to be lightening fast and get in there with a ‘check’ at the moment she’s even thinking of pulling you. Once the pull has started it’s a tug of war and strength-wise the horse will always win.
You need to think greedy pony and see ahead to what will tempt them (the hay net they have to close by, the bit of cow parsley poking out of the hedge at muzzle height)
Avoid them if you can, if you can’t then plan to distract them.

 

[Jellymoon]

I agree with all of the above about being much more assertive etc, but I feel you need some outside help to get there.

Can you afford to send him away for breaking later on this year? If he’s only just turned ‘3’, and is therefore actually only 2, it’s too soon now, but later on in the year he should be about ready to be lightly backed.

I might be inclined to turn him away in a herd or even just one or two older horses who can put him in his place until he’s ready to break, and then get a really good professional to do it for you. You’ll need to research who is good in your area.