Help, my mare needs to go on a diet tout suite

[Casey76]

Due to work commitments I haven't been up to the yard for almost a week (YO aware, and my horse are on full livery, and I've had friends riding, so ponies are not neglected)

However after not seeing Tarting for a little while, when I went up last night I was really shocked, over the past week she seems to have ballooned. I taped her and she is currently 475kg, and she really should be closer to 400kg!

The thing is, she gets no food apart from hay 2x per day and is currently on an overgrazed paddock which is too short for a muzzle.

She is ridden 6/7 days, which includes 2 x1 hour private dressage lessons and 1x jumping lesson where she works very hard, 2 schooling sessions for 30-45 mins and 1 fast-ish hack for 1-2 hours.

Help!

 

[wench]

Porky pony!!! Are you sure the yard are looking after her the way they should be...

 

[laura_nash]

Has she actually put on all that weight, or is she bloated? What would she condition score, what do you feel if you check for fat deposits?

The thing is, she gets no food apart from hay 2x per day and is currently on an overgrazed paddock which is too short for a muzzle.

Are you sure about this? When I had a similar situation I discovered someone was feeding my horse extra.

If this is definately the case, can you cut the hay with oat / barley straw or soak it overnight?

Sadly overgrazed paddocks can be worse in spring when the grass starts growing madly in a desperate attempt to recover, you don't see it because the horses eat it. Can you fence off a tiny bit to see what is actually there, you might be surprised how much it is growing?

 

[Casey76]

Tartine has maintained at about 450kg all winter. This time last year she dropped off a bit and got to 425, and looked really good.

Despite an increase in exercise she gained to 460kg in Jan, and then stayed there for a bit, but then this last week she's jumped up to 475kg. I can hardly feel her ribs at all now.

I'm now in a bit of a quandry, where she is starting to feel very flat during lessons because she isn't getting the right amount of energy. I've literally cut out everything I can from her diet, to the point where I no longer give her any supplements so I could stop the 300g soaked speedibeet and light chaff she was getting.

Tartine and my youngster, Blitz, share a 0.3 acre paddock. Consequently the grass stays very short all summer. The field is rested over winter, when my two come off and into pens, because this paddock is the drainage spill from the school so it gets very wet (standing water) It also adjoins the drive into the yard, so the YM likes to keep it looking "nice" for any visitors. While it rarely looks like a carpet of green, it looks significantly better than the winter paddcks which get totally trashed.

You know that test they say to do to see how much grass your horse is getting, by collecting 1kg of grass with a pair of nail scissors... it would take me hours. They don't get hay in the field, and the pair of them come in hungry.

We don't have any oat or barley straw available. There was talk of the YO getting some oat straw last year, but I don't think anything came of it. Due to the weather we had last year, all of the straw we currently have is absolutely naff.

I'm going to speak to the YM about having a haynet, but nets are a bit of a touchy subject at the moment, and are basically banned overnight :/


Thanks for your reply and suggestions

 

[twiggy2]

soak the hay and work her harder, she is probably lacking energy under saddle due to being fat, horses don't need hard feed for energy for the level of work she is doing but they need to be fit and the correct weight-on the current trend she will just continue to gain weight, haynets wont make he loose weight, smaller more frequent supplies of hay are safer and mean you can feed less over 24hrs.

 

[Casey76]

Can you please tell me how I can work her harder...

Her dressage lessons are all trot and canter work, the jumping lesson is all trot and canter work. I school when I can (we have lessons on in the school for 5 days of 7 when I'm at the yard) in mainly trot with lots of lateral work in walk, and I have a couple of friends who take her on fast hacks with lots of cantering and jumping.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I suspect she is getting fed at night when the others get fed, I would not think this is bad if it is a plain Fast Fibre or non molassed mash, but not if it is something fattening. The only thing you can do is soak forage, but you need to supplement minerals.

 

[twiggy2]

Can you please tell me how I can work her harder...

Her dressage lessons are all trot and canter work, the jumping lesson is all trot and canter work. I school when I can (we have lessons on in the school for 5 days of 7 when I'm at the yard) in mainly trot with lots of lateral work in walk, and I have a couple of friends who take her on fast hacks with lots of cantering and jumping.

going fast does not equal hard work, working through from behind with power in an outline equals hard work but you cannot have it overnight, you can increase what she is doing how she is doing it and that would help but working properly and hill work are more successful.

if she is gaining weight she is consuming more calories than she is burning (unless she has a health issue), you need to double check where the calories are coming from and address the balance.

large amounts of hay twice per day will cause her body to store calories she needs smaller amounts more often, there is less risk of other health issues feeding this way too.

increase the time under saddle on schooling days, hack for 30 mins before schooling to warm up and 20 mins after?

 

[Casey76]

She gets 1/2-1 measure (100-200g) Baileys Lo Cal balancer when the others get their hard feed.

The last time she tasted a mix was when we were trying to load her last May, and used mix as an inducement. Half the yard are on Lo Cal only so there is little chance of a mix up.

Um, she does work hard, in an outline/self carriage for all of the trot work. She is still a little above the bit in canter as she is still learning to work through correctly in canter, but in trot she lifts really well through her belly / withers and poll (and without leaving her hind legs in the next county).

There is nothing I can do about they hay delivery. They get hay at 6am before turnout at 8 (until 4), then they get more hay at 6pm. While it might be "standard issue" in the UK a late check isn't done on the yard here, and unless there is a medical issue, "last check" is when feed and hay are done on an evening.

The only thing I can request is that the hay be weighed and netted (which will need to be done by me, not by yard personnel) rather than given as a pile on the floor.

 

[Orangehorse]

What rug has she? Could you put on a thinner rug?

 

[MyBoyChe]

What type of horse is Tartine? Tbh if what you describe is an accurate assessment Im surprised she is looking fat, if its a sudden gain are you quite sure shes not in foal? My horse is doing much less work, eating nothing but hay twice a day, is on a bigger sole turnout area with grass in it and is maintaining a nice steady weight loss. I cant see where else you can cut back on her feed so there must be something going on somewhere if she is still piling it on!

 

[twiggy2]

What type of horse is Tartine? Tbh if what you describe is an accurate assessment Im surprised she is looking fat, if its a sudden gain are you quite sure shes not in foal? My horse is doing much less work, eating nothing but hay twice a day, is on a bigger sole turnout area with grass in it and is maintaining a nice steady weight loss. I cant see where else you can cut back on her feed so there must be something going on somewhere if she is still piling it on!

this

 

[Casey76]

Tartine is currently clipped out (apart from legs) and wears a fleece at night and is naked during the day.

I'm 100% certain she isn't in foal. She has been on the yard for two years and has only travelled once, last May.

 

[Casey76]

Photo from today (taped today - back down to 454kg, so she must have been just bloated at the weekend)

 

[wench]

I would say she looks a bit pot bellied, but not that bad.

Have you wormed recently, or had a worm count done?

 

[Casey76]

They were wormed in Nov for encysted red worm, and worm count is due in April.

Will say that she will more than likely need worming this spring and there have been lots of comings and goings on the yard over the past 6 months, and no one has been in their "normal" field due to winter weather, so lots of mixing up in the hardstanding paddocks and in the winter fields too.

 

[twiggy2]

I would say she is overweight and carrying a belly, if she is working 'properly' for as much time as you say she is then I don't see how that belly still looks like that

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I found that feeding huge trugs of oat straw chaff to supplement my horse's hay ration worked well when she needed to lose a lot of weight. I bought her from someone who had fed her on haylage and coarse mix, even though she was only turned out on alternate days in winter and in very light work.

 

[Casey76]

I would say she is overweight and carrying a belly, if she is working 'properly' for as much time as you say she is then I don't see how that belly still looks like that

Me either, which is why I'm always second guessing myself

TBF, she has only been in that amount of work for 4 weeks - but still her feed hasn't changed in that space either so I would expect to see some kind of weightloss...

My youngster has just started to be lunged, once a week, and even that has made a difference to his shape in 3 weeks!

 

[Palindrome]

It looks like a hay belly to me, I think she is trim. Incidentally, have heard that the hay belly goes away with a diet higher in proteins, you'll probably be giving more calories if you increase proteins (grass, alfalfa, linseed...) except perhaps if you use whey powder. Personnally I would not be afraid of feeding some hard feed as she is not fat and needs it for her work if she is feeling a bit flat.

 

[TGM]

It is difficult to tell from that photo (as thick mane hides the neck and there is not a rear view of the bottom), but she doesn't actually look hugely fat, but just has a big belly, probably due to being full of fibre. As I'm sure you know, you don't gauge a horse's weight by the size of the belly (which can fluctuate hourly) but by assessing the fat deposits (or lack of) on the neck, ribs and hindquarters. Can you feel her ribs easily and what condition score would you put her at? If she has only been in proper work for four weeks, then the belly should hopefully reduce as she gets fitter. It sounds like you sometimes rely on other people to exercise her, so I would be careful that they are actually working her to your requirements, not letting her have a gentle mooch about.

I don't know what the weather is like currently where you are in France, but if you are in a mild area, then it is likely that the grass is starting to grow again (it is definitely shooting here in Southern England). So that overgrazed paddock might actually be providing more grass than you are aware off, with the result that her nutritional intake has probably increased at the same time as her work.

 

[Casey76]

I took a few more photos last night... Tartine was not impressed to stand in the rain without her rug on - it was freeeezing!

 

[be positive]

Like others I could not see why she looks so podgy despite doing plenty of work but I expect she is eating the straw bedding once she runs out of hay, it certainly looks like a hay/ straw belly rather than her being generally fat. Could you soak her evening hay even for an hour then leave it in a tub ready for them to feed that way she could get more but with fewer calories, it may help reduce the bed eating, of she is, and you could replace the vits/ mins lost with a supplement which may help her energy levels so she could then work harder, ideally all her hay would be well soaked but I do realise that the yard may not be co operative about doing it themselves as it is a lot of hassle.

The other thing you could do is to do daily tummy lifts and stretches with her, she would benefit, it takes only a few minutes and may help her posture as like us some horses tend not to use their tummy muscles if they dont have to, work over poles would also help encourage her to lift her back and use her core, which I suspect she is not really doing despite seemingly working hard.

 

[Cortez]

She doesn't look exactly fat for her type, but also doesn't have nearly enough muscle for the amount of work you list. all belly; no bum.

 

[Casey76]

She has more muscle than she did 6 months ago (I hope!)

 

[Casey76]

Well I've spoken to my YM, and I'm going to switch her onto shavings at the weekend to see if the bloat is due to her eating the straw.

 

[Casey76]

We've been on shavings for 2 weeks now, and I think that the tummy is slowly going down

 

[melissa1971]

When we first got one of our ponies she had quite a big tummy she was previously only fed hay as old owner wouldn't feed her as she was fat but it was only her tummy, we started giving her speedi beet with brewers yeast and the tummy soon went down.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

She looks a lot better now, some kind of extreme metabolism! I would make sure she is getting her full ration of exercise as is told to you. and that her hacks have a good bit of walking at a good pace. Its not fair to give her so little grub that she is not getting a balanced diet ,or is constantly hungry. I'd be very tempted to give a bit of short feed, a good pet scoop of oats to start with, and 25gms of salt. Is he getting enough minerals in the balancer, it is important to double check when she is so restricted in choice.
She is barefoot, is she feeling footy at all, is this lack of energy only noted on hacks or is it when working on a surface as well?

 

[Casey76]

They're back out on grass now, and ironically it means they are getting less food and more exercise (the grazing is very short, so they are moving constantly for nibbles, rather than troughing at the hay feeder).

Also, as they are back on grass, I'm giving them a small feed on an evening of 1 mug of soaked speedibeet, 100ml linseed (this is about 25g for the brand I currently have), supplements (mag ox, brewers yeast, yea sacc, rosehips, cinnamon, tumeric and a course of Mycosorb) and 1 handful of unmollassed chaff.

A lot of the supplements are really to help them keep their coat black, and to help the stomach adjust to an increase in fresh grass.

I think a lot of the stomach bloat was due to digestion of the straw. She didn't eat much of her bed, but it obviously took a lot of digesting!