help needed with badly behaved donkey

magpie92

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not sure if this is the right place/forum to post this but any help would be greatly appreciated
i help look after 2 donkeys, mother and son, the son was gelded in october and and his behaviour has gone down the drain, he has become very stubborn when being led, kicks and rears when feet are being worked with, both with farrier and ourselves, i have bought a rope head collar for him as i have read that they work well, also use a schooling whip to touch up and down his legs to get him used to getting legs touched and means am out of kicking distance, he never kicked out reared before he got gelded is this a common side effect, he is about 2 - 2 and a half years old and was only gelded in october as his testicles hadnt dropped until the summer so waited till october to prevent flys causing problems.

thank you for reading
Magpie
 

LittleBlackMule

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Donkeys can be very defensive if they feel they are being handled inconsiderately, but if he was fine before gelding and nothing about his handling has changed since, then I would suspect it to be a response to pain/discomfort. It is certainly not a normal side effect of gelding.
It might be worth getting the vet to check for any issues around the operation site.
 

magpie92

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thats interesting LittleBlackMule it is usually me that handles and grooms them but i injured my knee and its been other people that have been handling them and thats when the behaviour started, will need to get my knee fixed and get them back into a routine, thank you
 

magpie92

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i wasnt there when he got gelded, but i did say to the people that were there to ask the vet to check his teeth while he was under, will also say to his owner that his teeth should be checked although the little pie is eating fine, he is as good as gold when there is food in front of him, tbh after seeing what been said i think its the lack of routine and the fact he gets away with playing up with other people he has forgotten what manners are and that he isnt the boss, and MrsD123 you are right about them being awkward, although they are very cute and have that butter wouldnt melt look :)
 

canteron

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Donkey are different from horses but just the most fun people. They are very inquisitive but hate being bullied.

For example, if I want to catch my donkeys and they aren't feeling like being caught, rather than chase them, I turn my back on them and pretend to have found something really really interesting on the ground and low and behold they will come up and want to be involved with me.

A fantastic resource for donkey answers is the donkey breeds society (www.donkeybreedsociety.co.uk). While the forum isn't the busiest there are some amazingly knowledgeable people on there.

Clicker training is also fab with donkeys, especially in conjunction with Ginger Nuts!!! If you go onto Hannah Dawson's website, she does quite a lot of clicker training with scared rescue donkeys. She is the loveliest girl and sure to help. http://www.hannahdawsonequine.co.uk/clicker-training/zonkey-training/ is a small video of a 3 part of training some Zonkey's (ZebraxDonkey) which might give you some thoughts, even if you don't go down the clicker route, it will hopefully give you some idea of how donkeys are.
 

horsefeed

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Rope halters and schooling whips won't work with donkeys, we have 2, a little 11hh gelding and and 14.2hh Potiou Stallion, you cannot make or bully them into anything they don't see the point of doing.
You ask nicely and then immediately reward, undesirable behavior needs to be ignored.
Clicker training works brilliantly with them as they very quickly get the point and want to please you as they get food. Good luck lots of tiny steps and rewards will get you a long way :)
 

magpie92

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i am not using the schooling whip to bully but to touch his legs to get him used to getting legs touched again as he kicks out and is incredibly fast so i really dont want to be on the receiving end of him as i have already had him rear and land on me and he isnt the smallest of donkeys, i have never hit either of them, it took me over a year to get the mother out of her field without throwing a complete strop using pressure and release and rewards which work really well. although she has a back story hence the not coming out her field
 

MotherOfChickens

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I used a stuffed gardening glove on a broom handle to desensitize my Exmoor when he was an unhandled yearling. I know donkeys are not horses and the behaviour is different but the book No Fear, No Force was invaluable then-it might be of some help to you? good luck :)
 

magpie92

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it was our farrier that suggested the schooling whip so thats why i got it, will get a copy of that book though MotherOfChickens sounds good
 

TTK

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It took me years to tame my rescue donkeys and they still (14 years later) only want to be handled by me. I swear they understand when I ask them to do things, they are very intelligent animals. I think it needs to be you handling them as much as possible. The stick / dummy hand trick really helps with desensitization and keeps you out of the firing line. I think, like all the other donk owners, that the key is to be fair and consistent. They will not respond to any form of pressure. Good luck with your two.
 

magpie92

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ye we got mum from the local mart but she came from ireland with foal at foot, but after giving her a good going over turns out she was a lot younger than we were lead to beleive, she was still cutting teeth, i felt so sorry for her, shipped from ireland to aberdeen then put through a ring then put is a transporter for and hour and a bit, she is brilliant now though and will do anything for a gingernut and minty sweety, including taking her wormer which used to be a battle of wits,
 

RutlandH2O

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Rope halters and schooling whips won't work with donkeys, we have 2, a little 11hh gelding and and 14.2hh Potiou Stallion, you cannot make or bully them into anything they don't see the point of doing.
You ask nicely and then immediately reward, undesirable behavior needs to be ignored.
Clicker training works brilliantly with them as they very quickly get the point and want to please you as they get food. Good luck lots of tiny steps and rewards will get you a long way :)

Good advice. I have found that my standard donkeys were a bit more aloof than my Poitous. In fact, I find the Poitous extremely biddable and personable, not just mine, but every one I've ever met. Is your Poitou stallion Livre A, registered with the Stud Book?

OP, ignoring undesirable behaviour and rewarding the positive is key...as is consistent repetition. Good luck.
 

moana

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I came across a big forum board dedicated to donkeys a few weeks ago ( sorry, donkeys really not my thing!) Why don't you join and ask dedicated donkey people who know about donkeys?
Just checked and the website is


www.donkeyforum.co.uk
 

fburton

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They will not respond to any form of pressure.
Not sure that's strictly true. Normal "pressure and release" works fine if done lightly - it's the overbearing, bullying sort that leads to problems.

Interestingly, methods of teaching that work with donkeys also work with horses - "ignoring undesirable behaviour and rewarding the positive". However, the reverse definitely isn't the case - e.g. attempting to round-pen a donkey in the same way as a horse would be a complete disaster.
 

horsefeed

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Good advice. I have found that my standard donkeys were a bit more aloof than my Poitous. In fact, I find the Poitous extremely biddable and personable, not just mine, but every one I've ever met. Is your Poitou stallion Livre A, registered with the Stud Book?

OP, ignoring undesirable behaviour and rewarding the positive is key...as is consistent repetition. Good luck.


Completely agreed little 11h standard gelding is far more of a live wire and mischevious.

Titan (the poitou) is so genlte and loving, we regulary hack out and my 11 years old disabled son rides him alone and Titan really looks after him.

Unfortunately hes not in stud book as Livre A as his mum was a part breed I believe so he's only 3/4's Poitou. We have him in hope of breeding a mule one day, He was breed to standard donkeys with many successful foalings before we had him and he does cover horses but unfortuantely only foal born so far (this summer) had deformed jaw and eye missing as well as no suck or swallow relexes so had to be PTS within 24hours of birth. We haven't run him with anything for next year so be 2015 at earliest before we have a baby mules again :(
 

fburton

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There are very few sources of guidance about training donkeys - apart from someone who's experienced already, of course. The first book I bought about donkeys was by a lady with the appropriate-sounding name of Marjorie Dunkels, called Training Your Donkey: A Guide to Basic Training and In-Hand Work. It was published by J.A.Allen in 1970 - which rather dates me! :eek: The one bit I remember is her advice to keep hold of a lifted foot if the donkey started kicking out "like lunatic pistons". Hmmm....
 

magpie92

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pressure and release work with the mother so thats why i was going to be using it again, i will see if i can get a copy of that book fburton am sure Amazon will no doubt have a copy :) i have googled how to train you donkey and there are very few hits on it,
 

jinglejoys

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I think you have your answer as said so I should go back to the beginning and start again. I handle all my donkeys and mules in rope halters and they are perfectly fine about it and you seem to have the right idea re using the schooling whip just to get him used to being touched again.I think I would be more inclined to look at the recent handling when you were'n't around and what happened during the gelding
Never pressure a donkey,just ask politely and what a horse person might think is a whisper is usually taken as a shout by a donkey or mule ;) I know with my lot I have worked on something and it hasn't worked so I stand back think and then drop my pressure even lower..go slower it blows their mind,they usually look at me "So that's what you wanted,why didn't you ask politely no need to shout!"....and do it perfectly.
Donkeys and Mules are great teachers :D
 

Hurricanelady

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I used a stuffed gardening glove on a broom handle to desensitize my Exmoor when he was an unhandled yearling. I know donkeys are not horses and the behaviour is different but the book No Fear, No Force was invaluable then-it might be of some help to you? good luck :)

Totally second this, fabulous book which helped me a huge amount when my foals were young and learning basic handling. Good luck :)
 

magpie92

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thank you jinglejoy, and once they know what they are doing by golly do they like to show it off, i used to trot the son in hand and he loved showing off his knew skill can not wait till he is back showing off his lovely trot :D will keep you posted on how i get on
 

fburton

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pressure and release work with the mother so thats why i was going to be using it again, i will see if i can get a copy of that book fburton am sure Amazon will no doubt have a copy :) i have googled how to train you donkey and there are very few hits on it,
Well, it's a nice enough wee book about donkeys - just not very in-depth. And I just saw the cheapest secondhand price on Amazon is £24.50 which is way too expensive for what it is. I think there are probably better books available now.
 
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