Help needed with insurance following accident

firstly check your house insurance as suggested above, many have legal cover

Secondly Red's advice above seems very sound.

thirdly whether you choose to supply the statement at the request of the horse's owner at this stage or not I would definitely sit your daughter down and get her to write every little detail down now while the memory is fresh, that copy should be kept in your family just for reference but will help as a 'memory jogging' tool (unseen by others) if a statement is formally requested at a later date. When I had a car accident I filled four sides of A4 paper with one long sentence (!) of everything I can remember, lots of punctuation and spelling errors but I wrote it all down non stop and it really helped when it came to answering questions
 
Gloi said:
Do you know whose the other loose horse was? It seems it was that one that started the whole chain of events, maybe the insurance company should know that.
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Nope she just appeared, got back on her horse and rode off without asking if everyone was OK. Her horse was an unusual colour though so hopefully we will be able to track her down via the horsey grapevine locally.
 
Lizzie66 "If your daughter doesn't have public liability insurance then it could be an expensive business."

No she doesn't and if they did claim it would bankrupt me - but then we don't have alot. Rented flat, furniture belongs to landlord, borrowed car, 'our' horse is loaned, 15 year old telly, creaky 10 year old laptop. They can try to sue but it won't do them alot of good.... although it's not as if knowing that would stop them I guess.

I should add our loan horse is fully insured for vet bills by her owner, but I'm sure as heck gonna sort out rider insurance after this and double check we are both named riders on the owners vet policy - although I checked she'd notified her insurers when we first started loaning.
 
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claireannejames said:
Spoke to her this evening she says it's because the Van driver is trying to claim for his van. I don't know if it's his insurers needing the info or why she's the one asking.
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Glad your daughter and the horse are ok. Sounds a nasty accident with the van. Do you know anything about the insurance held by the horses owner? Do they have public liability insurance? I used to insure but it was vet fees only. I am not sure about public liability insurance and whether it is the horses owner or the rider who is potentially liable. Could it be both? Maybe someone else on here knows about that? This situation must be so stressful for you.
 
Did the owner pay your daughter to exercise the horse while she is out of the country? Did you or the owner/ her mother authorise the vet inspection/treatment? Both are factors that may alter who is liable for any vet fees.
 
I think you are all over complicating the whole thing. Of course the owner needs a written statement for her insurance because the Van driver is trying to claim for his Van (for which I must admit some sympathy) All I will say if the owners insurance get the written statement they can then deal with wereas if not the Van drivers insurance will most likely contact your daughter direct which will cause a lot more stress than is nescessary.
I really dont see why you are getting frightened about being sued as it wont happen and I dont think its anybodies intention too. However if you look at it from the insurance companies point of view they just need the facts of the accident so they can deal with it correctly and fairly for everybody they are never happy with third hand accounts,being defensive only suggests you have something to hide from them.
Surely you dont expect them to deal with it properly without a first hand account of what happened,think of trying to do that if you had a car accident.
 
Be careful of the words you use. My mum had to do a statement when a taxi hit our car head on at a junction...and because my mum said the taxi came out of now where ( as it did because it was speeding and ran a red light) the police deemed her to have driven across the junction without looking. I know the taxi was speeding but as i was 12 my statement was irrelevant.

Words like hindsight, surprise, loss of control ot anything like thay could be incriminating.

I have 3rd party for my daughters pony and it covers anyone who rides or handles him. when i had sharers for my horse i asked that the riders had their own insurance and asked for proof.
 
popsdosh said:
I think you are all over complicating the whole thing. Of course the owner needs a written statement for her insurance because the Van driver is trying to claim for his Van (for which I must admit some sympathy) All I will say if the owners insurance get the written statement they can then deal with wereas if not the Van drivers insurance will most likely contact your daughter direct which will cause a lot more stress than is nescessary.
I really dont see why you are getting frightened about being sued as it wont happen and I dont think its anybodies intention too. However if you look at it from the insurance companies point of view they just need the facts of the accident so they can deal with it correctly and fairly for everybody they are never happy with third hand accounts,being defensive only suggests you have something to hide from them.
Surely you dont expect them to deal with it properly without a first hand account of what happened,think of trying to do that if you had a car accident.
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But I would be happier with dealing direct with the insurance company and presenting them with my daughters statement, rather than through this lady who is emotionally upset (quite understandably) isn't independent party and we also need to maintain friendly relations with as her daughter is on our yard.... Of course insurance company need statement and happy to provide this direct to them. As I say I don't think the lady is trying anything on here I think she's simply trying to pre-empt the requests of the insurance but would rather deal direct myself (and not my daughter) I have every sympathy too with the van driver, he was not at fault in any way and I cant imagine the trauma of having a huge horse hit your windscreen without warning, poor guy.
 
I too think you are overthinking/worrying about this. Of course the insurance need an account of what happened to enable them to deal with vet and third liability claims. (Maybe a request for a written ACCOUNT as opposed to statement wouldn't have sounded so daunting) Delaying will only be more stressful as owner/vet/van driver get anxious for progress when there appears to be no malicious intent on anyone's part
 
I think its perfectly reasonable for the owner to be asking- the insurance is not with you as I understand it?

Owner is currently the one who is being pursued for the money by the van driver.

Owner was not there no in control of horse at the time.

It's no different if the horse was on a livery yard and escaped during being turned out and galloped down a road collided with a car- I as the owner wasn't there and I would want the written details of what happened for insurance.

Def mountain out of molehill here, just get the details down whilst fresh so that then you can draw a line under it and move on.
 
claireannejames said:
But I would be happier with dealing direct with the insurance company and presenting them with my daughters statement, rather than through this lady who is emotionally upset (quite understandably) isn't independent party and we also need to maintain friendly relations with as her daughter is on our yard.... Of course insurance company need statement and happy to provide this direct to them. As I say I don't think the lady is trying anything on here I think she's simply trying to pre-empt the requests of the insurance but would rather deal direct myself (and not my daughter) I have every sympathy too with the van driver, he was not at fault in any way and I cant imagine the trauma of having a huge horse hit your windscreen without warning, poor guy.
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It is far better for the horse owner to be dealing with the insurance company, it is her insurance that will be dealing with sorting it out with the van driver's insurance, just get your daughter to write down what happened.
 
claireannejames said:
Thanks all for the suggestions and help. Eeeek that the insurer won't pay out if my daughter wasn't a named rider - oh my gosh the vet bill will be horrific, the poor poor owner. Horse has already had body scan and 4 days inpatient stay. I very much doubt she would have added her to her policy. Also, sometimes my daughter lets other people ride our loan horse off the yard. That will have to stop!!!! Very good point. Plus I will check our loaner has named us both on HER insurance as riders. Why do we always have to find all this stuff out the hard way eh.
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As an owner of two horses, with two non paying sharers, the above is NOT my experience.

My horses are both covered for third party liability, through MY insurance for anybody handling or riding them with my permission in a non commercial sense. And any damage caused where there was liability (and a loose horse on road hitting a van is pretty clear cut liability).

The commercial sense is a paying hire and reward riding or a paid employee e.g. a groom, would not be covered by my insurance.

As long as owner has third party liability, and your daughter was riding iwth permission, should be fine, but always good to check.
 
claireannejames said:
what a good point... but then I feel like not giving her the statement she's asked for would cause unneccessary aggro as others have pointed out. I think she's just trying to pre-empt the situation. But yes, odd. Spoke to her this evening she says it's because the Van driver is trying to claim for his van. I don't know if it's his insurers needing the info or why she's the one asking.
Also checked out BHS gold and not as expensive as I feared, I will compare with WHW, thanks for that info. Also I sometimes take my younger daughter who is 9, off the yard on a lead rein. I wonder how insurance would deal with that if anything happened, if she's on the lead rein do I still count as the 'named' rider for insurance?
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I've yet to come across named rider for liability insurance, in 20 years of insuring horses. I think it is named rider for personal accident cover, but not for liability. Liability cover typically follows the horse, in any non commercial or exceptional situation.
 
dianchi said:
I think its perfectly reasonable for the owner to be asking- the insurance is not with you as I understand it?

Owner is currently the one who is being pursued for the money by the van driver.

Owner was not there no in control of horse at the time.

It's no different if the horse was on a livery yard and escaped during being turned out and galloped down a road collided with a car- I as the owner wasn't there and I would want the written details of what happened for insurance.

Def mountain out of molehill here, just get the details down whilst fresh so that then you can draw a line under it and move on.
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OK yes agreed that makes sense.
 
wingedhorse said:
I've yet to come across named rider for liability insurance, in 20 years of insuring horses. I think it is named rider for personal accident cover, but not for liability. Liability cover typically follows the horse, in any non commercial or exceptional situation.
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Very helpful and reassuring - thanks!
 
wingedhorse said:
As an owner of two horses, with two non paying sharers, the above is NOT my experience.

My horses are both covered for third party liability, through MY insurance for anybody handling or riding them with my permission in a non commercial sense. And any damage caused where there was liability (and a loose horse on road hitting a van is pretty clear cut liability).
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great very helpful thanks. Could you just explain how it's clear cut liability in a non fault accident? no-one fell off through any fault, and the van driver was not speeding or driving without due care? So there is no liability on anyone? Does that mean that if the owner has third party liability insurance it will or won't pay? To be honest I doubt she has it, she probably just has vet cover. I know she's put in a claim for the vet expenses through the vets, but said she was unclear if it would pay and would just have to pay up if not. By the way the statement is now written (took alot more than 10 mins!) and will be forwarded to the owner's mum via the yard manager.
 
Also, my daughter was indeed getting a small sum of pocket money for looking after the horse for 3 days a week whilst the owner was working abroad for the summer. There was no instruction that this was to include exercising her, just permission given to do so if she wanted to. I'm not sure how that part of things would play out, since of course nothing was written down.... from the sound of things though the van drivers insurer might delve into it? As you all say, I'm probably just over thinking it all and should cross the bridges if/as we get to them. The more pressing issue now is protecting my daughter from stress, as ever since it happened last Friday the owners mother has asked us NOT to tell her daughter anything about what has happened. She doesn't want her daughter getting upset and rushing back from abroad if the horse is fine which I completely understand. So we are of course complying with her wishes but it puts my daughter in an awkward spot since she was texting regular updates and photos, and has had to ignore texts or send one word replies that the horse is 'fine'. Owners mum says she will tell her daughter that an accident happened, when the horse is back at the yard, which should be today, fingers crossed. But that she is planning to gloss over the seriousness and just say the van merely clipped the horse and she was fine.... I guess in another three months when the daughter gets back she'll find out and it things will finally be straight. Trying to keep everyone happy and not stressed! But you guys have helped me not stress so much about the insurance side of it so thanks again.
 
claireannejames said:
great very helpful thanks. Could you just explain how it's clear cut liability in a non fault accident? no-one fell off through any fault, and the van driver was not speeding or driving without due care? So there is no liability on anyone? Does that mean that if the owner has third party liability insurance it will or won't pay? To be honest I doubt she has it, she probably just has vet cover. I know she's put in a claim for the vet expenses through the vets, but said she was unclear if it would pay and would just have to pay up if not. By the way the statement is now written (took alot more than 10 mins!) and will be forwarded to the owner's mum via the yard manager.
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The liability will be with the owner of the loose horse that collided with the van. You 'should' be okay as you were riding horse with owners permission, were not accepting payment and were not negligent. So it will be the owners insurance company who will decide if they just roll over and pay up, if they try and hunt down the owner of the other loose horse or if they try and wriggle out of it and lumber the poor van driver with a claim.
 
Some of this makes no sense. An insurance company would talk to the policy holder which is the 21yr old, unless daughter has given insurance permission to speak to mum and how can she have if she knows nothing about any accident? Unless mum is legal owner of horse and insures it? Pocket money does not exist in a legal sense. A person getting paid is employed or self employed. Money complicates things. Goodness knows what an insurance company would make of it if they had all the facts. I wish you luck with sorting it all out.
 
claireannejames said:
great very helpful thanks. Could you just explain how it's clear cut liability in a non fault accident? no-one fell off through any fault, and the van driver was not speeding or driving without due care? So there is no liability on anyone? Does that mean that if the owner has third party liability insurance it will or won't pay? To be honest I doubt she has it, she probably just has vet cover. I know she's put in a claim for the vet expenses through the vets, but said she was unclear if it would pay and would just have to pay up if not. By the way the statement is now written (took alot more than 10 mins!) and will be forwarded to the owner's mum via the yard manager.
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If you own an animal and it gets loose on the road and causes an accident. You are typically liable, as you should keep animal under control.

Anyone owning a horse without third party liability insurance is either very foolish or very rich.

Vets fee insurance is a personal choice. Third party liability is very unwise not to have. It is rare to have vets fees and not third party.
 
claireannejames said:
Also, my daughter was indeed getting a small sum of pocket money for looking after the horse for 3 days a week whilst the owner was working abroad for the summer. There was no instruction that this was to include exercising her, just permission given to do so if she wanted to. I'm not sure how that part of things would play out, since of course nothing was written down....
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You may need to be careful with this when you do go for rider insurance/third party liability as it may make it void if she is being paid - although you say its an added bonus as opposed to an instruction.

I hope your daughter has recovered from her fright and isn't too traumatised. Good luck with her exams.
 
wingedhorse said:
Anyone owning a horse without third party liability insurance is either very foolish or very rich.

Vets fee insurance is a personal choice. Third party liability is very unwise not to have. It is rare to have vets fees and not third party.
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Sounds like she more than likely has third party then which is very good news. Also then I need to check out whether our loan horse has third party included on her owner's vet policy. Everyone I know has vet insurance, so I guess everyone therefore probably has third party too and I don't know any fools! the only possibility is that I might be a fool myself if I'm not covered by loan horse owner. Although as I say I did check the vet insurance was there when I loaned, otherwise I was happy to take out my own, but the owner said she was happy to continue with hers and had notified them of the loan. I'm sure I'm a fool if I don't check now though!
 
A real life example which happened to someone I knew.

Person A owned a horse - not insured for Vets due to age but she had 3rd Party Liability insurance (I think due to BD membership). Person B was leading the horse along the road to the field when he swung out and was hit by a van. Both horse and van damaged (horse recovered). Van driver claimed via insurance - Person B had to make a statement as she was in charge of the horse at the time. It seems that insurance wouldn't pay the driver of the car as neither A or B had been negligent. I'm not sure of the final outcome as I lost contact with them but last I heard the driver of the van was threatening to sue A directly for excess and loss of earnings. There was no comeback on B.

I think the key to insurance paying out is negligence (it certainly was at work when an employee broke an expensive glass door - they would only pay if he had been negligent).
 
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