help needed- YO problems and pickle of a pony

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bushbaby28

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Hiya,

Apologies for rant and long explanation. Just feeling a bit stuck!!

I have a 14.3hh 7 year old cob who is going through a bit of a naughty handling period. He knows his strength and knows that my mum isn't that confident handling him so he tends to take the mickey- pulling her to grass and running off and pulling lead rope out of her hand.

90% of the time he is the sweetest, most gentle boy and the sort who really looks after his rider. Both my mum and I lack confidence despite being fairly experienced riders so tend to stick to the school instead of hacking.

The other 10% of the time he can be a right git and when he decides to run, thats it, there's no stopping him. We've tried a bridle, leadrope round his nose, turning him- nothing really works. We've always believed its better to be quiet and consistent.

the problems we've had this week due to snow have totally got on top of us though and don't know what to do:

Wednesday night my mum brought my horse in first, and then went back to get Barney. As it was snowing and he'd been left out alone for all of 5 mins he was a bit on his toes. We have to lead them under a railway bridge and a train went past when they were walking beside it- he spooked and ran off up the yard. Somebody soon caught him but by then he was doing his best dinasour impression and snorting his head off.

We've had to leave them in the past 2 days as the snows been so bad. Que a phone call from yard owner today saying how we can't leave him in as he's a bully and will be unhandable tomorrow. She went on a rant about how he needs to be totally reschooled and we need to work him every day and we should have left both horses out in this weather instead of bringing them in and suggesting that he's not the horse for us as he's so much of a bully. (my horse is a tb with a whole list of leg problems and lameness issues as well as a wimp so its just not practical to leave him out as i can't afford another vet bill!)

So I get my mum calling me at work in floods of tears not knowing what to do. Its horrible when you get told your horse is so naughty, and she feels like the numpty on the yard already.

So have I have a few questions:

1) Does anybody have any ideas on how to improve his manners- ie. not pull to grass and not pull away from us when leading.

2) what to do about bossy yard owner. Do we just ignore her and tell her we're working on it?

3) Is it REALLY that bad that we tend to work in the school instead of hacking out every day. He does go on the occasional hack, and we're going to try to hack out at least once a week but its hard as we both work. Surely its just important that he gets regular work.

We had the same problem at our last yard as well so feeling like its all our fault. The problem before was that we were on a part livery yard and the person handling him used to flap at him and scare him half to death, so he acted up.

Thanks so much for reading if you got this far!! Any advice appreciated
 
heya,

Was thinking of a monty roberts style headcollar. Any experience with them?

I'm in the South East just above Portsmouth

Thanks for your help
 
My welsh cob was like this, but Inow use a dually halter. (the monty roverts type) and it works a TREAT!

Re the yard owner, I would advise her that yes you are working on it and you would prefer constructive criticism if she feels that you need 'help' in future!

Re riding in the school, I don;t have a school so am not riding at all.

I would agree about turning your cob out if he is a handful - mine live out these days but last winter they went out every day, they would have been just awful to handle if not, and is he is already tricky, he will presumably be worse if he has been in for a few days?

I think you may need to be a bit firmer with him, as you say 10% of the time he is a git, and it seem he probably knows what he's doing. My boy certainly does and would happily take the pee all day long out of some people. Don;t get me wrong I dont make a big deal but he now knows that he has to respect the halter - its rather uncomfortable if he doesn't, and releases and becomes comfy as soon as he does.

Have you not got anyone a bit more confident to help?
 
the annoying thing is, a few months ago we got our instructor out specifically to work on ground work and he was being perfect!

i think the main thing we have to work on is the trains as they come along every half hour, so its impossible not to meet them while your either under the bridge or near it. Their field runs beside it so really they have no excuse but it does cause a problem when handling them.
 
I'd get a controller halter - I like the rope ones, didn't get on so well with the Dually just cos I didn't feel it released quickly enough - and give some of your time over to ground work sessions to get him behaving how you want.

My horse is very easy to lead etc but I sometimes do a groundwork session anyway just to vary his routine and give him something to think about. He reallly enjoys them.
 
So, two YOs have told you the same thing?:) Why don't you ask her for some help? He is clearly a bit opinionated and knows you and your Mum can't control him. As a YO myself I can understand what your YO is feeling, sorry:) But I would be happy to help you out, provided you were willing to listen :)
 
Less food/lower calorie food and more work, that is actual real hard work whether its in the school or outside it, 6 days a week, and demand respect all the time. We've got one on our yard that's like this all the time, as he has weak owners and I've been trying to explain to them that he is bored senseless and just looking for trouble to perk up his day (not saying that you're no good at handling him as I haven't seen you, and don't know you/your abilities).

Now my cob, who is usually very good, is playing up exactly the same as we are currently buggered up by the snow and were frozen up before the snow so he hasn't been worked for over a week and is full of unused energy mentally and physically, had to lead him out with a chain over his nose yesterday and still had to have serious words with him. That is how much difference exercise/mental stimulation makes to him. I was trying to explain to the yard staff last week that mine would be exactly the same as the troublesome one given the chance and they didn't believe me as the difference between the 2 is normally vast!
 
I'd get a good confident instructor to help you both with the handling issues and the hacking.
If it were me I would take him into the school in hand, in a bridle with lunge line if you prefer and do some simple groundwork exercises.
Make him walk beside you then you stop, in theory he should stop beside you. If he doesn't make him walk backwards until he is just behind you. You may need to tap him on the shoulders with a whip or give him a prod just to say oi! Do as your told.
do this in walk until he is totally focused on you, then trot beside him then halt etc. Everytime you make him halt, stand there for a few seconds then praise him then walk on. Everytime he goes infront of you make him go back but say nothing.
I have worked with stallions and bolshy youngsters and find that this technique is quite effective. Because then when you lead him in from the field you can practicce your halting if you think he is going to pull to grass or he is planning something.
He will eventually get the hint that if he walk ahead he will be made to walk backwards. It is all about gaining his respect on the ground.
Izzi x
 
Thanks Brandy thats really useful.

I'm more confident handling him than my mum is so i'll be leading him tomorrow. But I'm quite small so haven't got a hope in hell of really holding onto him if he seriously wants to go. Going to go buy a dually halter as like you say, it'll definately make it more uncomfortable for him to run/pull.

Its hard to say if he'll be worse tomorrow. He'll certainly be on his toes a bit more but i'd say my tb is the one who's going to sit on me lol. but it doesn't worry me with him as you can generally hold onto his as he's not strong in the neck and shoulders like Barney is.

We try to turn them out daily but unfortunately we have to walk down a concrete track to get to the field and its pure ice at the moment. we've brought some grit (although swear this should be yard owners duty) and going to put some down in the morning.
 
a kemp collar for leading and a good instructor to help long term - i know just how you feel, my cob is just the same and i had to find a suitable restraint and a good instructor who has been a godsend - we still have issues but nowhere near as bad - good luck xxx
 
Thanks Izzi thats really good advice. Going to try to get to school tonight or tomorrow- gets his brain working too so its all good.
 
Ahhh our 'safe boring sensible' cobs!!! :rolleyes: I have 2 of the angels and they both can be difficult on the ground! I use a rope headcollar, if I try to use a 'normal' one they know it and try it on!! Got mine from ebay, around £7 each. The smaller cob who is the worse if he decides he's off, I must admit I do resort to a chiffney for a couple of days to remind him who's supposed to be in charge!

I do think a good ground work lesson for you both would be a great idea. I certainly don't ride my cobs everyday, their ground behaviour has no reflection on if they are exercised or not! They are cobs who are bred to pull so ridden work is easy to control it's on the ground they know they have the upper hand so they take advantage!!

A very wise man told me that there is fine line with a cob, you have to be kind but firm because a cob will always take the p if he thinks he can...and mine most certainly do!! Wouldn't change them for the world cos they constantly make me laugh and are so much fun!!!:D
 
You're welcome. I used to work on a stud and livery yard so no matter what the horse I had to handle it, even if they were idiots! You learn a trick or two along the way :)
PM me if you need any more advice.
Izzi x
 
Firstly don't be too harsh on yourself. A lot of these types of horses can have sudden stubborn streaks. My fell pony is very similar to yours -and when they're the cobby type with huge necks you just can't hold them! I always said it was much easier to hold my tb if she spooked on the lead-rope than the little fell if she decides to run. And more handlers will have struggled with a horse like this than will admit to it.

Definately ditch headcollars for a while. I've used a rope training halter (not a dually, cheap from derby house idea) before but not sure it worked all that well. But anything has got to be worth a try - headcollars are useless.

I think the best advice is what has been said above. Whether it's a horse behaviouralist or even your normal riding instructor, getting someone to give you lessons on the ground would be beneficial. We often forget the skills to handling horses are more than what we do when on them. And everyone has to learn these skills somewhere!

There are also books out there with various groundwork exercises, all of which would be a good way to practise handling him. Like any problem with your ridden work, the more you practise and work on it, the quicker it will go away!
 
Have you tried asking horsey friends if they can recomend someone they know who can give you and your mum some ground training, needs to be someone who is confident and calm and who will lead the 3 of you through the issues. Please don't dispare though as all issues are fixable with the right help. Never used the Monty Roberts halter but would be wary of using it incorrectly especially if your not very confident. Sounds like you just need someone to help you and your mum build up some confidence in your own abilities and help to build a proper working relashionship with your boy, but beware of people promising instant fixes and one cures all theories. Good luck.
 
Get a proper pressure halter and teach him to lead in it. ask YO or someone experienced to show you how. never tie him up in it though, it's just for leading. I would never use a normal headcollar with this sort of horse, it's useless.
you need to be absolutely consistent, NEVER allow him to pull to grass. He has to be absolutely under the thumb for every second of being led.
Lead him on a long lead line (15' ish) with gloves and a hat on.
Ask someone to show you how to use your body weight, your elbow etc into his chest/shoulder, to get him to back off and be respectful.
Unfortunately cobs can be right thugs once they know their own strength so you need showing how to keep him in line, for safety's sake...
the situation with the trains going over the bridge sounds difficult, are they reliably on the 1/2 hour, i.e. can you time going under the bridge just after one has passed? I don't think I could hold my politest horse if that happened as we walked under a bridge!
 
paulineh said:
Talk to Sarah Weston she is one of Monty Roberts Recommended Associates. She is based in the New forest which is not too far away from you.

Here are her Contact details 01725 512434 or 07871 252954

her email is sarahweston.logg@virgin.net or her websites

www.logicalhorsemanship.co.uk
www.sarahweston.co.uk
Click to expand...

I also recommend Sarah, she worked with my rude cob and my friends spooky WB. She is not expensive and is very good at explaining things. She had duallys you can try before you buy! There are pics of her working with us on my FB, I'm sure you can recognise who I am from my avatar pic! The Bentley album with tarpaulin etc.
 
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thanks to all of you for your help. Its really good to see a range of opinions and see it from the yard owners perspective as well.

to be honest i don't think more work will actually make any difference as he's good as gold when ridden, and hes the type you can ride every day or not at all and he stays the same. I think the fitter he gets, the worse he would be handling as he'd build up even more strength. He gets regular mental stimulation in the school even if its not always work until he's dead level.

From the responses, a control headcollar definately seems to way to go, and to not let him take the mick for even one second. I'm also going to do some groundwork in the school and get somebody to help me with this.

As for the yard owner. I'm going to take her comments on board and definately make a change. I guess its only 10% of time now but that could easily increase unless we get on top of it.

Thanks again for your help
 
Just to add another comment - at my last yard there was another cob who would charge off like this. The owners had a rope halter but you just couldn;t hold him in it becuase it was soooo painful on th ehands. Yes I know you should wear gloves but I was asked one day to bring him in mid summer and he just set his neck and went. I had no chance. I did call them and ask if I could try my dually and again, even without having done the training, I had more control.

From you YO point of view - I am not a YO but this other horse regularly used to come careering into the yard and it did anger me quite a lot - its dangerous and would upset the other horses, run into the areas where they were tied up etc, so this may be why she's upset.
 
To the good advice already posted, I wanted to add that if you go down the pressure halter route you will need to school the horse with it before using it in more difficult circumstances. Pressure halters are very useful if used correctly but they are tools, not quick fixes. They are designed to teach the horse about pressure and release, so you will need him in a calm frame of mind at first so that he can work out the lesson for himself: ie that the pressure is applied when he moves away from you and that he can release it by coming back.

If you are unsure then it is better to get a professional to show you how to use it. They can then also deal with any tantrums your horse throws! When I first bought my very dominant WB he really threw his toys out of the pram when he learned that he couldn't control me - there was rearing etc. I'm not trying to scare you, just to warn you that some horses will fight the pressure rather than yield at first. So for your first attempt put on your hat and gloves, and take him into the arena where the surface is good. He will probably be fine, but just in case.
 
I'm not far from you.

I can comment from both points of view here.

One, the yard owner pov. I can understand fully why the YO said what she did. I had a difficult horse with me, who was 'dangerous' if not worked regularly enough. All the time the horse was being worked, there were no problems. Also, you have to appreciate that sometimes, things can be seen by other people in a different perspective to those directly involved.

From the livery point of view. I have owned a WB mare all her life (15yrs) and she is a big girl. 17.2hh !!! She is the same. She will be as good as gold one minute, then tank off the next. Hers is a fright/flight instinct though? YOu say that the train going over the bridge triggered off the running away? What about other times? What is normally the cause? If your boy is like my girl, no matter how well behaved he is, if he is scared, then he will go. I can lead my mare on a piece of string with no pressure or voice commands. She will not step on me, near me, invade my space, overtake me, barge me. Nothing. However, if she is scared, its as though I am not even their. Its a horses natural instinct.
Its not always a case of solving the problem, but more of a case of finding the cause. If you compare times when he has run, are there any similarities? How long have you been at the yard you are at now? What were the problems at the other yard?

Finally, with regards to the YO clearing a path way to the fields, in theory if the YO is contracted to provide you with safe access to stabling and grazing at all times, then this is what she should be doing. However, its not always the easiest thing to do, so some tact might come in handy when you talk to her about it. Could you not walk on some grass to get to your field?

Anyway, now I have bombarded you with ????'s, (sorry) you are more than welcome to PM if you like.

Good luck.
 
Dually headcollar 100% worth the money! My mums cob is a typical "bulshy cob" and will drag to you anything that he can eat!! In the Dually he is much better and as soon as he starts to pull just a tweek on the leadrope he walks on nicely! The other morning I used a normal headcollar and he dragged me all over the place!!

No idea what to do about the yard owner...... I used to have one like this and it is upsetting/annoying, I ignored it but ended up moving yards soon after anyway (for different reasons!)

It is good to hack.... but im the first to admit I am nervous so dont do it!! My news years resolution will be to hack! My horse loves it (unless its windy!) and likes to lead so I have no excuse!

Chin up :) x
 
Getting someone in to help long-term is fine for long-term, but you need to look at now. I'd be inclined to slap on his bridle and as others said, wear gloves!!

Is there anyone about who could help you short-term with all this snow about until you can get someone there?

As far as the YO goes, I would be swallowing your pride and explaining that you need help UNTIL the situation is resolved. I'm a YO, but I won't interfere UNLESS I'm asked, or I can see things getting dangerous, and your situation is definately getting dangerous...

IF your YO refuses to help, then I'd be wondering if the yard was the right place for you....even if she adds on a few squiddies for fetching in etc......better that, than your pony running over someone....

Keep us informed! :D
 
yard owner has said she wouldn't handle him because he's too much of a handful - she has a VERY bad opinion of him so has not actually offered to help. She has offered to ride out with my mum every day though to encourage her to exercise him more (but this doesn't work as both me and my mum work).

The yard is nice but the fields are so far away from the stables that in this weather you either have to leave in or leave out.

I wasn;t intending to use halter/control headcollar until i had more knowledge of how to use it as suggested above. So tomorrow my plan was for both of us to wear gloves and a hat and walk him down there together calmly but firmly with him in a bridle.

Wish us luck!!
 
Another vote for getting Sarah Weston out. You do need to get this behaviour in hand before it gets worse, we had a little cob 14hh on tip toes and he had learnt not only to run off when being led to get his own way, he would swing his bum at you and kick out, rear up to get away from a pressure headcollar then bolt, or just run into you with his shoulders and knock you over, he had been poorly handled in the past and just learnt his strength was far greater than humans, and every trick in the book to get away from you.

Pressure headcollars are wonderful but you do need to learn how to use them correctly hence recommending getting Sarah out.

In the meantime, insist at all times perfect manners when handling, move when you tell him, back up, stand still and stay stood still. If you can take control of his feet you are almost there. Also try and keep his attention on you when being led, walk purporsefully, keeping his head at your shoulder, if he trys to get ahead of this stop him sharply and back him up, keep repeating till he gets the message.

Best of luck and hope it works out soon for you.
 
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