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TallyHo123

TallyHo123

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This is a long post so thanks in advanced for anyone who reads
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Ive had my gelding (5yr old Arab x Appaloosa) for 5months now and when i got him had all sorts of problems.
First of all was younger than we thought, had a lot and i mean a lot of past owners, been through many dealers etc. etc.

He was gelded as a 4yr old and when i got him he just turned 5, had been used as a stallion.

Know he has been mistreated especially with a whip.

Had a serious attitude problem, smashed me and vet through fences, span and bucked at you when you went to catch him, couldn't do anything like changing rugs etc. in the stable as he would cow kick, buck etc.
Finally after about 2months i managed to get on with things like a normal horse!
Very trusting with me now and i have a lovely relationship with him.

Weirdly he has always been fab to ride throughout the whole time (once you can actually get tack on him)

However my problem now is he is so unpradictable with other people.
5 people could walk past him and the 6th he would spin on and buck at
then for 2 weeks people can walk past bring wheelbarrows etc past and he's fine, then nothing different and one day without warning will spin and cow kick them.

Shouting/hitting him doesn't work i have now spoken to previous owners and built up a lot about his history and previous people have said they tried hitting him turned round double barreled her and broke ribs.

It has become less and less and he had not done it for a good month or so but last night he span and kicked out at someone for no reason, nothing was done differently.

Ive had teeth, back, farrier, vet has been out and he is a very healthy horse.

I now have no idea what to do.
It's not fair to risk other people.

He doesn't like other people handling him so i can't really go away anywhere.

Sorry this is so long but i need to do something as i feel it will be a matter of time before he hurts someone.

He is currently in a paddock by himself but other horses over fence and he's very happy in there. In there for the reason other people can't go in a field to catch their horses as he corners people.
 
No wonder he is so defensive if he has been shouted at and hit, by whoever!

There is no quick fix. It will take time, patients, co -operation from alot of people and an experienced person to turn your horse around. He may be best of in a situation where he can have a one to one with somebody and not on a busy yard. Horses like your's either end up as meat or going to somebody else who will mis treat them even more. Try and get some experienced help from somebody you trust and know and who won't resort to hitting your horse if he does wrong. Believe me that is not the way to get results. Try advertising him on The Project Horse website. Some people love a challange . Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
 
If you don't have the time or experience to sort him out, as it sounds, then your options would seem to be:

1. Pay for him to go somewhere to be sorted out (look into who you send him to VERY carefully). This will be expensive and could take a long time.

2. Sell him on with an honest description and price tag to match, try project horses. Again, try and make sure the person who takes him on knows what they are doing, its only fair to him.

3. PTS.

Sorry if that sounds a bit blunt. Screwed up projects aren't at all easy, I've got a lovely little pony that had his head messed up good and proper before I got him and its taken 4 years to get to the stage where I can rebreak him and hopefully get him ridden away again so you have my total sympathy.
 
One answer for this

Jason Webb
http://www.australianhorsetraining.co.uk/

Amazing - Natural Horseman (not saying this because im parelli student..)

He teaches horses manners, What is wrong and right, very plain and simple just like black and white answers for the horses.

He is not "softey softey gently gently" because he does "Natural" horsemanship...

I had a horse re-trained by him and he is amazing with horses. He just uses common sense (which people have lost over the years unfortunately because we are taught which gadget to buy next instead of going to the route of the problem!)

There is NO NEED to put a horse down for this kind of situation in my opinon...

Give them a call they are so lovely


Just thought he may be quite a way from you... but im sure they can advise you or at least put you in touch with someone similar to them nearer to you?
 
I read your post to say that you were getting on really well with him and he had improved a lot with you and with some other people but was still unpredictable with the odd other person.

If that's right then the only option is for you to do him yourself for a while longer and only expose him to other people in controlled conditions where they can be safe. Individual turnout with a big sign warning people not to attempt to handle him is a sensible idea. Tying up inside his stable rather than on the yard where other people may walk past, staying away from shows for the time being and generally warning everyone at your yard to give him a wide bearth all seem sensible things to do.

If he still manages to kick people with all these precautions then you will need to take him to a very small yard where it is easy to warn people about him and he can settle into a routine.
 
My horse isn't very trusting - and although I do not have the issues you have with your horse - I have managed to improve him.

The back lady could not get near him so told me to handle him more - well he is fine with me? Anyway long story short - I asked everyone on the yard to just come and give him a pat/stand with me in his stable and have a chat/I even dragged my parents up who are non horsey to 'touch him' and we just kept repeating this - and no he isn't perfect by any stretch and not many others can catch him etc. But he is better!

You have done so much so far with your horse I am sure you will overcome this just with some time!
 
sounds to me like he just needs to learn that people on the ground arnt going to hurt him, this will take time and patience but when he puts his trust in you fully 100% he will be your best friend, i personally would encourage people to come and c him in a calm atmosphere and give him a quick pat and walk off so he realises they dont hurt him they could give him a quick polo or a treat! worth a try anyway, good luck!
 
I think if you want to keep him its a management thing and he will probably always have the tendency to do it if the right (or wrong) circumstances arise. Or if he just feels like it.
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It sounds like you have done really well to get so far.

Can you talk to the YO about him having turnout that doesnt have people walking through. Maybe put a huge sign outside his stable to say do not enter. Dont tie him up outside so that nobody might inadvertently walk past his back end. The hardest thing must be that nobody else can do things with him, what a nightmare for you

When I worked for MFH many years ago one of his horses would very ocassionally absolutely double barrel you with every intention of connecting. Nobody really believed me as he was as sweet as pie the rest of the time. Then one day I had a day off and the owners daughter was mucking him out and he did it to her, missed her head by a whisker (she had a grazed cheek) He was PTS soon after.

Not saying thats what needs to happen to yours but how difficult for you. Lots of sympathy from me, wish I could offer you more advise!
 
Sounds to me like you have done extremely well with him and all credit to you. Are you saying you want to part with him, or just asking for help?

5 months of problems must seem like an awful long time to you, but it probably isn't to your horse. Some can take months, even years to settle and if your boy has been pushed from pillar to post, then it probably will take him considerably more time.

Sorry I can't be of more help other than to say I think you are doing a good job. I can only echo TicTac's suggestion of perhaps finding somewhere where you could be on your own or with fewer people so you can have more of a one to one with him. Or as others have said, Project Horses if you want to sell.

And lastly PTS may well be the kindest option for him if you really want to part with him. Then at least you know he will be at peace and no one else can hurt him. Good luck whatever you decide x
 
I am totally confident with him and i have no problems working with him, i have never lost my temper with him tried getting friends who know what they doing to work with him and he shows so much improvement, then like yesterday i was stood as usual grooming him with his haynet, someone walked past (not close to him) he was tucked in against the wall ears forward then in a split second he spins and bucks.

I don't want to get rid r sell on as he is everything i have been looking for, i was searching for something to do BSJA with, he's very good show jumper.

But its not my yard and to be fair people shouldn't have to put him with that.

Like my vet said kicking is a vice and not many yards will takes horses with a vice.

I have no problem continuing my work with him, ground work, introducing him slowly to things but it is unfair to put people in that position, people are starting to mention things to the yard owner.

It's his unpraitctablility (sp?) saddle fitter out he was fab, back out same process span and floored him, same with farrier vet etc.

I am not getting rid as i have looked for so long for a horse like him but i can't put other people in this position, there are a lot of small children on the yard and while yes they no to stay out of horses way etc. i am worried a serious accident will occur.

thanks for your replies so far!
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Hi I agree with Tictac and parelligirl.
You need someone to help you that doesnt meet aggression with more aggression, your not going to get anywhere shouting and hitting. If your boy has been a stallion before you had him its probable that he was only ever turned out on his own and doesnt know how to interact and play nicely with others.
Its good that you have started to build a bond with him , natural horsemanship and other training systems like TTouch could really help him . Also if you have a good horse whisperer or reiki therapist that deals with horses in your area, it could be worth asking them what they think , its best to ask around.
 
He shows no aggression to other horses and only had to be by himself because he would chase people out the field and buck at them, it's people he has the problem with and with his past i totally understand that, all i am worried about it that if people are starting to mention to YO and if someone gets hurt i am going to be seriously stuck at what to do, i have 2 other horses settled at that yard and don't want to have to move.

thank you so much for you replies!

ETS saw post above re the shouting/hitting - not me that has done that, just don't want people as so many people so suggesting do it back to him
 
I think it sounds like you have done really well so far!

You clearly love him and want whats best for him and everyone else on the yard. It must be very stressful.

Is there any chance you could move him to a different stable on the yard to limit how many people are walking past him?

I think it sounds like you are on the right track but i think this will just take a long long time.

Good luck
x
 
I can't really add to the excellent advice and suggestions given so far, other than to say perhaps he's got really subtle triggers? Could it be a scent, some sort of perfume or deodorant he's associating with and reacting to? Is he better with men or women, is there any correlation with height or hair colour or age? If it's a result of abuse, as it sounds, it could be something really minor he notices about someone or about a situation that triggers a defensive reaction.

Sorry I can't be more help, and as others have said it sounds like you've made massive progress with him already.

Good luck! Fingers crossed for both of you
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Thank you so much everyone!
Vet is coming out for jabs for my youngster next week so she is going to have a talk with me.
I wana do everything in his stable to prevent people from being hurt, but he will never get over it that way. hmmmm...

I haven't noticed anything about the people he kicks, he has done it badly to the vet (female) , saddle fitter (petite male) , another livery (a lot smaller than me) My mums OH and he has a horse and is very confident, a friend who is an extremely good dressage rider.

I thought it might be people who are nervous around him but it doesn't seem to be. My OH has never been around horses until he came up with me about a year ago and he is very nervous of this one of mine as he saw him kick me quite badly when i first got him but weirdly horsie is fine with him :s OH very nervous but can lead him to field etc and he grooms him for me and tacks up with help but friend who's been riding for years and breaks horses my horse didn't want anywhere near him.
 
So perhaps peoples' nerves actually put him at ease? A scent given off that makes him feel in charge, that he's not likely to be abused by this person?

I've been out of the horsey game for too long, so sorry if this is a stupid question, but is there an equine equivalent of DAP or Feliway diffusers?

One other thing - if he's ok with other horses, have you tried the chestnut trick? Not a long-term solution, obviously, but might help with his 'reprogramming'
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Just a random thought but have you had his eyes checked, the people he has kicked all seams to be smaller or maybe he likes bigger people.

It has only been 5 months and if this horse has had nearly 5 years off bad experiences then it will take longer than 5 months to get him to trust others.

Keep up the good work you have started and keep everyone else away from him, allow him to decide who he likes and let them handle him a little bit.

Good luck, it is nice to hear he finally has a home that wants to help him.
 
I would honestly recommend that you get an experienced person in to help you sort him out. And scream and shout as a lot of people will because they don't understand or think it's just a commercial money spinner, A Natural horsemanship type trainer would be the best way to go.
 
i agree with littlespritz, lots of gentle positive interaction with strangers, but in a very controlled environment.
and i'd move heaven and earth to get either Monty Roberts or Pat Parelli to work with him when they're over here, ideally not in a 'demo' environment. i'd want one of them though, not their disciples!
i think he's been abused in the past and has flashbacks and then thinks he has to get the first strike in, tbh. congratulations on getting him this far, sounds as if you have done an amazing job.
 
IME Appaloosas can be very difficult but very rewarding and take a long time to settle in new surroundings. They are often 'one person horses'. It is possible that he is protecting you from someone he percieves as dangerous. The issue about people collecting horses from the field could be possessiveness over the 'herd', one of our mares did this. Several of the suggestions above make sense to me. I think you will have to analyse each situation very carefully to discover the triggers for his behaviour. It might also be worth looking at his diet. One of our mares (not Appy in this case) could not eat sugar/cereals and her behaviour was very dangerous and unpredictable until we realised what was causing it.
One of our Appy mares, who was never an easy ride, was brilliant with a very novice OH on a lead rein. Also she was frightened of big vehicles but would always make sure that she took the rider with her if she shot off. She wanted to be in charge.
I think you need to develop his trust in your ability to be in charge, the role he will have had all his life as an Appaloosa stallion.
Good luck!
 
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