Help new horse rearing and spinning in school

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I bought my dream boy the other week and he has been at home with me for 10 days. He had the first few days to chill out with lots of turnout he was on 2 hour at last home. Last week on we had a saddle fitted and worked him with my instructor on Sunday for the first real schooling. He was a little lazy but nothing really bad just testing although he threw a little buck and lifted his front legs when I used the stick lightly to get him moving on (didnt see him ridden with a stick although prev owner said he was ok) We worked him again this afternoon and he was in total testing out mode but in a very worrying way. My instructor rode him first and he spun and reared , she rode him thru this as much as possible and got off and lunged him for twenty minutes. She then got back on and he spun and reared again a really high rear and was very nappy. She tried to ride thru but he reared several times and it was really unsafe.
He is 6 years ols 16.2hh and passed a 5 stage vetting. I saw him ridden 4 times before purchase and rode him twice and jumped him. I knew his behaviour would change for a while as everything is new and scary but I cant cope with rearing and I don't think it's new to him he seemed well practised. I have called his previous owner it was a private sale but he was advertised and sold on the basis of being a good safe riding club horse and not strong or silly. I also asked her to sign to say he was not known to rear etc and she did. I have called her and I'm hoping that she will be honest and that if he did this with her initially she can advise how she got him thru this. I'm also going to ask if she will come and ride him to see if it's a settling down condidence fear thing. I'm really gutted as I've really bonded with him and he can be very affectionate but don't know if the trust will be there:(.

He escaped and exploded in the field coming in the other day a total bucking bronco so I was worried that it could be an injury .... but he just seemed so go so quickly to rearing that it seems like a long seated issue.

I've called the BHS legal line for advice. Any suggestions and experiences appreciated.
 
You poor thing - I would be asking the vet to check the bloods that were taken at the vetting. I would also get a vet to check the horse out now - it sounds like it could be something serious that has been missed - kissing spines ??

I'm sure you'll get lots more advice, but if there is any chance it's a settling in thing, don't ride (it's too dangerous) and get the checks done, and take it from there - having let the seller know things are very serious.
 
Thanks shysmum I'm going to called the vet who checked him tomorrow to retest the blood and check for any injury etc. I'm so sad and feel so silly , hubby and I are really smitten with him and I'm going to have to tell him what's going on later.
 
Have you tried going for a sedate walk or hack ect uf he is anxious perhaps he is not responding well when u put pressure on him? Good luck with talking to the owner x
 
thanks lovingyourwork the irony is that I was going to school lunge etc and then intro gentle hacking over next few weeks so as to reduce pressure on him. The rearing was so bad I'd be afraid to see how he would be in traffic at the moment and dont think it's safe to ask my instructor until I've spoken to prev owner and the vet etc.
 
Shivvy said:
thanks lovingyourwork the irony is that I was going to school lunge etc and then intro gentle hacking over next few weeks so as to reduce pressure on him. The rearing was so bad I'd be afraid to see how he would be in traffic at the moment and dont think it's safe to ask my instructor until I've spoken to prev owner and the vet etc.
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Yes that certainly would be my worry!! Good luck with it, he might just be protesting to the change, i hope you get it sorted, I'm sure you will as you have seen how well he can go.
 
Fingers crossed his old owner will come out and ride him for you. It must be such a shock for a horse to just move from everything he knows to new everything. Some horses just take it in their stride whilst others throw a wobbly. Bit of a shock for you too.

Hope you can get to the bottom of it and get on with enjoying your new horse :)
 
My newest mare did this to me when I first got her! She was though a newly backed 4 year old to be fair, it was a lack of confidence problem. I had to spend a long time doing ground work and then I re-backed and took it slowly and the problem has completely dissapeared! Perhaps he is feeling very nervous by the new home, feeling pressured, your tense etc and it's a bit of a vicious circle.

Obviously get all the vet checks etc done!
 
Sounds very scary and feel for you. I wouldn't ride him again until shes come out to ride him, and further checks done etc and you're confident to get back on . If there is something missed I would certainly be questioning the 5* vetting . Hopefully it wont come to that and he is just having a wobbly and trying his luck!! they're all known for that from time to time ;)

sounds to me you did everything you could before buying him so fingers crossed for you - keep us updated - good luck! :)
 
Does your instructor ride with a strong contact? I ask because it's easy to make my mare behave in that way by putting too much pressure on her mouth.

Getting the previous owner to come and ride him is a very good idea.
 
I'm so sorry to hear about this.

This may be a long shot but since the change in fields he may be suffering from a lack of Magnesium in the grass? Had various horses come onto our yard (We have crap fields) and they tend to play up so they need Magnesium supplements to keep them at bay.

Other than that I don't know what to suggest. Big hugs and fingers crossed for you. Please keep us updated :)
 
The fact you say you've just had a new saddle fitted is the first thing that stands out. I'd ask the old owner to come out with the saddle you rode him in when you tried him. The napping could be easily explained by him not being confident in his new home & wanting to get back to his new friends, but I would guess if rearing is out of character then there's another reason.
And whilst not wanting to try & blame your instructor, do you think yourself she has a similar style of riding to yourself & previous owner? I have a sweetheart of a pony who is good as gold for the most nervous or novice rider. However anyone with a forceful manner of riding would swiftly be put in their place. And by forceful I don't mean is your instructor a numpty sat kicking & yanking. Just some people have a naturally dominant/forceful manner that can sometimes be picked up on by the horse. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it can mean the horse behaves worse for them than a less experienced rider.
 
Thanks so much all for the support and virtual hugs:). I was thinking of asking prev owner to bring her saddle just in case and yes my instructor is more assertive than I am. Sorry to say not a peep from prev owner lets hope she is on hols - BHS Gold legal helpline lawyer thinks she is a dealer by intent if not by name so hopefully she will man up and help me sort this. I had the strong impression riding him on Sunday- first schoooling day my yard that i needed to ride him with a soft contact as he felt pent up (thought he just needed some work full of beans etc) - discounted my feel at the time as i'm rusty and any fit horse feels that way but he was explosive today for my instructor. Lawyer said ride tomorrow and video but I dont like to ask someone to take that risk. Now thinking of options such as Richard Maxwell etc to sort fear issues etc if it is that but cant be sure until prev owner responds. He is ok but bargy in hand (moved my head to avoid a buck the other night bringing in) but very practised when ridden.
 
Hopefully the old owner will get back to you and give you advise etc. If she DOESN'T that would immediately ring alarm bells.

However don't underestimate how unsettling changing home can be for them. Some horses really cannot cope with the stress.

The fact you say he is bargy on the ground is also telling. How well are you dealing with that? If he's feeling you haven't stood up to him well, been a good leader etc and put him in his place he will be feeling very vulnerable. Some horses don't mind but others really really need someone in charge on the ground to make them feel safe. If you can't made him be polite and biddable inhand then it's not suprising his ridden work isn't great.
 
I agree that it would be great if the old owner would come and ride him in the saddle you tried him in.
I would stop all hard food but if you are not riding him every day he needs work is it possible to get him lead off another horse so he can get out and about.
Over the years I have seen horses show completly bizarre behaviour when they change homes I never give time to settle in if that means days off they are in work from the day after they arrive.
You need to be 100% consistent about manners on the ground the horse that behaving with no respect on the ground will do so ridden.
 
We have both been clear on manners on the ground he had a smack today from instructor when he came in for pulling away and was taken back to his field and led back in good as gold - so in no earlier for being bargy. When he pulled with me I did circles and led him back so same effect no progress for being strong.
 
Shivvy said:
We have both been clear on manners on the ground he had a smack today from instructor when he came in for pulling away and was taken back to his field and led back in good as gold - so in no earlier for being bargy. When he pulled with me I did circles and led him back so same effect no progress for being strong.
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Hum. Sounds like your groundwork is more of an issue than you realise. 'Doing circle' achieves very little. Your instructor's smack probably did him more good than you know, although it shouldn't need to get to that stage. A sharp, well timed smack was be very effective but getting 'slap happy' is never the answer. Backing up, moving out of your space and moving his feet is far more effective then just circling him. Taking him back to his field so me makes 'no progress' also achieves bugger all as that's probably what he was hoping for in the first place.

That's not to say he's not got ingrained serious rearing and ridden behevioural issues BUT he's now had 10 days to push his boundries and ask questions on the ground and it sounds like you failed to test :o For some horses like him, then getting on him and trying to make him do as he's told under saddle, once the groundwork test has been fail, is difficult.

I's still get the old owner out but I'd also invest in a groudwork specilist to come and give you a lesson inhand. I suspect it may be far more effective than you think!
 
Thanks Kalibear good to know I failed the test:( think I know that as I feel like **** already but good to re emphasise) , he has not been a massive problem on ground just testing it may all be connected but it may equally all be bs and he may be a rearing expert for another reason. Either way as stated I'm open to considering options including a groundwork expert such as Richard Maxwell et al to test root cause as his future matters more than my self esteem as prev owner is no show at moment.
 
Shivvy said:
Thanks Kalibear good to know I failed the test:( think I know that as I feel like **** already but good to re emphasise) , he has not been a massive problem on ground just testing it may all be connected but it may equally all be bs and he may be a rearing expert for another reason. Either way as stated I'm open to considering options including a groundwork expert such as Richard Maxwell et al to test root cause as his future matters more than my self esteem as prev owner is no show at moment.
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No need to be snipy. You previously said you had his groundwork under control. I suspect not, from reading between the lines, and have pointed it out (unless you don't actually want suggestions?). Whethers that's the actually issue or not is hard to tell without seeing you working with him. It would be MY first port of call when tryin to fix things.

No point getting depressed by it. You've bought a horse you can't handle. Plenty of people do. From what you've written it sounds like you did everything sensibly and been unlucky. Or maybe you're a complete novice who's totally overhorsed yourself? There's a long line of people like that who come asking for help on here. Can't tell without knowing you. At least you have had the sense to get help.

You can either try and send him back (if you're able) or you can work with what you've got and use your help well.
 
Not being snippy believe me after the day ive had I will have my darn moment of feeling sorry !!! I'm not a novice just rusty I've ridden for 30 something years but my boy retired then passed on so this is new life. I can ride the whole horse well enough and don't feel over faced but obviously rearing is not the same as a strong buck or being full of beans, even head shaking etc which I'm happy to deal with. He was right up and nearly over backwards with rider today and didn't have the look of a first timer so perhaps I'm just taking a moment to embrace my new reality and feel really scared. If this doesn't scare others then I will be the first to say he may have fared better in more expert hands but I will try to give him a chance.
 
You now sounds more experienced that you initially did, which DOES put a different slant on it. If you'd made that clear from the start.......

To be honest I wouldn't be getting on him at all right now! Anyone who says otherwise and reccomends sitting out something that's close to going over is a fool!

However from what you have said, I suspect his issues are groundwork and settling-in related and it's too early to go down the litigation route. But the fact the seller has dissapeared does muddy the waters greatly and make it all much more suspicious.

Incidently we had a big HW hunter mare who's behaviour deteriorated (pain related) so much that she started to rear badly. Having had her for years we know she wasn't a rearer but her rearing was 'established and balanced' as someone once said watching her. It wasn't, she was just bloody good at it! Rearing is natural and there's no real way to tell if it's a well practised habit or not!
 
The rearing won't be a new thing. It maybe under saddle, but horses rear in the field, playing etc. So just cos he looks like he's done it before doesn't mean he's ever done it with a rider or being handled. Most horses find it quite easy, cos unless you watch it daily from birth, its difficult to watch their first attempt at rearing. And did your instructor ever ride or view before you bought?
 
Thanks. Maybe and hopefully he just is good at it and looks like a pro. Either way I need an expert to work with him to see where the root cause is as if it is fear getting someone to ride him strong thru it (suggested as a possibility today) may embed his fear and the response.
I didn't sign up for a plod he is a fit and athletic sport horse and I'm in awe of his beauty and we are privileged to know these wonderful creatures but I just have to make sure that he is safe and so am I for the challenges ahead. Didn't mean to be touchy tonight just hurting over what lies in store for us.
 
Kallibear said:
But the fact the seller has dissapeared does muddy the waters greatly and make it all much more suspicious.
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I would imagine it somewhat depends on timescales... Do we know when OP contacted the seller?
It might be that they are a dodgy dealer and got to great lengths to disguise the horse's true nature to con the OP.
Or... they might be away on holiday, or considering what to do/how to respond/if to respond for fear of litigation? they might be busy and intending to get back to OP asap?
The possibilities are endless... :o
 
What happened at the saddle fitting? Was he ridden? How long for? At what paces? Who rode and what is their riding style? Was he ok being ridden at the saddle fitting? Hopefully this gives you some idea where to start.

I'd go back to basics. Take him in the arena, bridle no saddle, with gloves hat whip. Teach him to lead. Stand at the shoulder or just in front. Send him on with voice and whip if necessary, praise when he gets it right. Praise every good thing. You want him walking, halting, trotting, in straight lines and circles, doing rein back and turn on the forehand, all in hand. It may take a few weeks. Practice daily.

Then add the saddle and repeat. Then add a rider and repeat. Next have the handler there by his side but get the rider using voice and legs and reins. Forget contact and outline and pushing him into the bridle, make no confusion between stop and go. Have the handler gradually move further and further away from his side until they're in the middle of arena and rider is managing on their own. This may take months and there may be problems along the way.

Start with the basics, see how far you get and deal with any problems that crop up when it happens. Use treats, a lead horse, anything stress free that generates forward movement if voice and whip doesn't do it. Yesterday I physically walked a horse one hoof at a time by picking them up and moving them, whilst a handler was at its head because it had planted. 5min later it was walking. Try whatever you can think of and praise everything positive whilst saying No to the negative. Timing is key and so is your tone of voice. You've got to start somewhere and getting after him or lunging him hasn't worked so you need to find something that will.
 
shortstuff99 said:
My newest mare did this to me when I first got her! She was though a newly backed 4 year old to be fair, it was a lack of confidence problem. I had to spend a long time doing ground work and then I re-backed and took it slowly and the problem has completely dissapeared! Perhaps he is feeling very nervous by the new home, feeling pressured, your tense etc and it's a bit of a vicious circle.

Obviously get all the vet checks etc done!
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This - I have had the same issue, it improved but did not go completely, so get bloods checked.
 
littlelegs said:
The rearing won't be a new thing. It maybe under saddle, but horses rear in the field, playing etc. So just cos he looks like he's done it before doesn't mean he's ever done it with a rider or being handled. Most horses find it quite easy, cos unless you watch it daily from birth, its difficult to watch their first attempt at rearing. And did your instructor ever ride or view before you bought?
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Just noticed this - we both rode before purchase , schooled, jumped and hacked out. He was fine at saddle fitting and at first real schooling 3 days later (minor buck and leg lift though) we both rode him. Then yesterday.

Prev owner has now been in touch she hasnt offered to ride which is equally telling and disappointing. Just gave me some guff by text about it being out of character and that I should ride in company (he was in the school next to other horses when he reared) and ....Oh yes lets not forget put him in a sheepskin noseband. She also tried to say that she advised me he was nappy which is rubbish as she signed a sale note to say he wasn't and also not known to rear etc.
 
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