Help new horse rearing and spinning in school

nikicb said:
Shivvy, I'm trying to help you here, so please bear with me.

Looking back at your previous posts you talk about getting his passport sorted out and that you are now his 5th owner including his breeder. He's still a young horse so to have that many owners is quite a lot.

I think I found his advert on horsemart but won't post it on here. But looking at the seller's you tube account she is certainly in the horse business and has sold/is selling at least a couple of other horses. That I think would make her a trade seller (even though she claims to be private), which should at least help you in terms of come back. Am I barking up the right or wrong tree here?
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No totally agree but pls pm other comments as I'm looking at legal action at least for reschooling costs etc.
 
floradora said:
You stated in your post that she 'is to scared to come and ride the horse herself'. If she herself said this, do you have a record of it? Or is it just something you assumed in the heat of the moment? If she rode the horse herself at the viewings, then there should be no reason she wouldnt again. But..... if the horse wasn't a rearer beforehand, who can blame her if she doesnt want to come and get on it now . In her mind you have caused the behaviour and possibly the horse may also be a little 'fresh' now he's not doing much. If you could find a way of revealing horse identity/ breeding on here (without naming her) , somebody may recognise him. The horse world can be very small ! I recall a similar situation, an old video on you tube was found of the horse which showed it rearing in collecting ring. Vendor took horse back and refunded cost. Have you done extensive googling of horse and all known owners?
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Yes googled pre purchase and my view she is scared is based on her head in the sand attitude. I don't want to name her as I may need to reclaim costs and also she may step up to mark albeit very darn late :(
 
If I have it right he's a six year old who has had five homes and until one month before you bought him was living out 24/7 .
No six year old is the finished article and with that on his cv I would have been more than wary as for the seller signing a warranty to say he does not rear how can you do that for a six year old that was in the field a month before more fool the seller for doing that.
But Shivvy he's a baby how much do you know about his back ground poor boy with that breeding is not going to be a Dobbin .
 
Have you tried taking him off grass and working him harder? Might just make a huge difference, he could just be going through his terrible teens (my 6yo is doing a similar thing.) And with a change of environment and diet added to fuel him its no wonder he's acting up.
 
Hi, hope this helps. A mate of mine bought a hunting fit IDX . Stabled 22/7 , 3 feeds a day and hunted hard. She bought him and turned him out in a 10 acre field and it totally blew his mind. He was so used to a rigid routine he couldn't cope with the freedom he now had. She moved him back to a yard environment and he settled straight away. Some horse thrive on a strict regiem and can't cope with a more relaxed life.
 
Thanks I understand now my grass is poor but could be a factor. Should that make him explode not just be full of himself? I would like to think that could be the case but he lived out 24 7 before she moved him to sell him 4 weeks ago. Suppose the question is was he was difficult before on more turnout high sugar but that is another one she is not going to answer.
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Not at all, high energy can manifest itself in different ways. For example, I own a (VERY) forward going Connie X and when he gets excited he bunny hops and does the truffle shuffle. He is very sensitive and would therefore never take the bit in his mouth and bomb off, instead he bounces and shuffles and generally prats about all over the place.

He also get's 10x spookier when he is full of energy, so it's worth bearing in mind that horses manage their excess energy differently and the rearing could just be a result of too much energy and not enough outlets for it.
 
Koala Kate said:
Hi, hope this helps. A mate of mine bought a hunting fit IDX . Stabled 22/7 , 3 feeds a day and hunted hard. She bought him and turned him out in a 10 acre field and it totally blew his mind. He was so used to a rigid routine he couldn't cope with the freedom he now had. She moved him back to a yard environment and he settled straight away. Some horse thrive on a strict regiem and can't cope with a more relaxed life.
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Haven't yet thanks but there seems to be a consensus in advice re: grass and work so will try for a few days until position is clear if only to settle him as his is a lovely baby who deserves none of this and can't know he has done any wrong by reacting to strange stuff this way.:(
 
Shivvy said:
No totally agree but pls pm other comments as I'm looking at legal action at least for reschooling costs etc.
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Have you asked her to take the horse back and has she refused I don't think you have any chance for getting the reschooling costs back .
But you may be able to return the horse to her.
 
Goldenstar said:
Have you asked her to take the horse back and has she refused I don't think you have any chance for getting the reschooling costs back .
But you may be able to return the horse to her.
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I'm fully insured for legal expenses have checked today. She has head in sand and isnt responding to calls and texts so can't say if she will kick into reality. I'm looking at options of returning (does she deserve another shot at this poor baby if she wont even come to ride) or sueing her for costs to reschool due to misdescription.

I know one thing for certain he is a real love and she is a total swine.
 
Shivvy said:
Riding club horse good allrounder with a view to affiliate in the future. He has a good scope and jump and has demonstrated great paces when he has not blown his mind.
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So were you looking for a bit of a project? Or an established RC horse to take further?
I agree he jumps, his paces however, well, need developing a tad :)
 
Well good luck with that the seller may not be behaving well and you may be able to recover some of the value of the horse from her but her first move once she gets her head out of the sand should be to ask for the return of the horse and to return your money that's what a savvy dealer would do .
 
martlin said:
So were you looking for a bit of a project? Or an established RC horse to take further?
I agree he jumps, his paces however, well, need developing a tad :)
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Yes looking to take on further at 6 I wasn't that worried as he was turned away last winter under prev prev owner - maybe know why or he may have been a liitle overfaced for a young un and getting a deserved break - he didn't get one this year. He can be lovely or tense sadly more of the latter.
 
nikicb said:
Will do. And that's precisely why I didn't and won't post his advert or seller's details here. And hopefully other people that put 2 and 2 together and find this information don't either.
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Well said . Thanks so much all for really valuable comments :). I'm aware many have identified the horse now but pls no identifying posts as it's a small world and it's him that matters not the orig owner.
 
I'm asking all those questions not because I'm nosy (well, OK, I am nosy, but that is just by the by ;)), but because I'm trying to understand the situation a bit better...
So, what is it that you, in an ideal world, want to happen now? Do you want to keep him? Sell him? Return him?
 
martlin said:
I'm asking all those questions not because I'm nosy (well, OK, I am nosy, but that is just by the by ;)), but because I'm trying to understand the situation a bit better...
So, what is it that you, in an ideal world, want to happen now? Do you want to keep him? Sell him? Return him?
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Thanks know your are being helpful, before I went up to to bed check last minute he was to be returned .... after a long bedtime cuddle (he is baby and still likes hugs) I feel for him. Truth is a rearer may be too much for me but his prev owner has now really p'd me off about her lack of respect for him. They are fabulous and wonderful beasts and it is our privilledge to engage with them and earn their trust.

Pls excuse any spelling / typing errors:o
 
So you don't really know what you want to happen, do you? Well, before you start ANY proceedings, you have to have it clear as day in your mind what outcome you are looking for. So, with that in mind, if you don't want him returned to the seller, you might as well forget the litigation and crack on with producing the youngster you bought.
 
martlin said:
So you don't really know what you want to happen, do you? Well, before you start ANY proceedings, you have to have it clear as day in your mind what outcome you are looking for. So, with that in mind, if you don't want him returned to the seller, you might as well forget the litigation and crack on with producing the youngster you bought.
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Thanks it's probably no surprise that this was unexpected and I just have to process that in my own head too so I decided to sleep on it before any legal stuff and be very clear - just think she is the lowest of low not helping him and need to be calm to make decisions with a clear head on best way forward using legal and practical advice.

PS: Agree with 99% of your conclusion caveat being did buy a youngster but not a rearer so hence dilemma.
 
Many young horses rear it's often not a huge issue perhaps with that wonderful thing hindsight a six year old was a little young.
Good luck whatever you decide and good luck to the horse as well it's not his fault.
 
My advice, for what it's worth, and you are free not to take it, of course:) is:
If at all possible, get the horse returned to the seller and get your money back.
If that^^^ is not possible, or proves very difficult/stressfull/whatever, don't try to bring him on yourself, get somebody else to do it, give it 3/4 months and then either enjoy the horse or put him on the market.
Yes, it will be umpteenth home for him, but maybe this time it will be the right one, and the best way to ensure a good future for him is to give him as rounded an education as possible and increase his value.
 
Goldenstar said:
Many young horses rear it's often not a huge issue perhaps with that wonderful thing hindsight a six year old was a little young.
Good luck whatever you decide and good luck to the horse as well it's not his fault.
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Agree that can be a factor but not here as I and my instructor judged the 6 year old we saw on several occassions and as we know it's not always age as character and outlook can be big factor too. Thanks for the message of luck it's a tough time but tougher for him bless him!
 
martlin said:
My advice, for what it's worth, and you are free not to take it, of course:) is:
If at all possible, get the horse returned to the seller and get your money back.
If that^^^ is not possible, or proves very difficult/stressfull/whatever, don't try to bring him on yourself, get somebody else to do it, give it 3/4 months and then either enjoy the horse or put him on the market.
Yes, it will be umpteenth home for him, but maybe this time it will be the right one, and the best way to ensure a good future for him is to give him as rounded an education as possible and increase his value.
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Yes after sleeping (or not sleeping) on it the plan is to send him back. If I have to wait for court order then I will have him professionaly reschooled / rehabilitated elsewhere on a yard more suited to his needs he is a smasher and this situation is not his fault in any way and he deserves a brighter future.

Thanks so much for your help and support to all who posted I will let you know how things go on once the legal process has started and she has responded.
 
Shivvy said:
Yes after sleeping (or not sleeping) on it the plan is to send him back. If I have to wait for court order then I will have him professionaly reschooled / rehabilitated elsewhere on a yard more suited to his needs he is a smasher and this situation is not his fault in any way and he deserves a brighter future.

Thanks so much for your help and support to all who posted I will let you know how things go on once the legal process has started and she has responded.
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I think you have reached a very sensible decision. Luckily for him he is a good enough horse and still young enough to get a good home and have a great future. Good luck with getting him returned etc.

There are plenty of lovely horses out there for your budget that you will be able to get on and enjoy straight away. Although I am too far away from you to be of any practical help, I'm always happy to do a bit of googling for you if you see something you like.

Wishing you all the best. :) x
 
nikicb said:
I think you have reached a very sensible decision. Luckily for him he is a good enough horse and still young enough to get a good home and have a great future. Good luck with getting him returned etc.

There are plenty of lovely horses out there for your budget that you will be able to get on and enjoy straight away. Although I am too far away from you to be of any practical help, I'm always happy to do a bit of googling for you if you see something you like.

Wishing you all the best. :) x
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Thanks that is really appreciated and very kind looks like it will bubble on some more:(

After I explained that under the sale of goods act her totally inadequate response and evident breach of contract by misdescription / miselling mean that no legal transfer of ownership has taken place from herself to me and therefore could she pick up her horse and return my money ..... she has now offered to ride. It's a crying shame that she didn't do this Tuesday when I rang her and she ignored calls or texts or yesterday instead of the illadvised sheepskin noseband comment - how can she expect to be trusted now? My advice is as I have already repudiated the contract her job will be to argue this in court and her riding or not riding now isn't relevant s she let things get to tht point by not responding. She also said that she isn't in a position to keep him - well don't deal horses then it's a commercial risk?? I've advised again that she needs to remove her horse and refund PDQ or I will be forced down legal route and will have to claim costs for reschooling the poor lad too.
 
Shivvy said:
Thanks that is really appreciated and very kind looks like it will bubble on some more:(

After I explained that under the sale of goods act her totally inadequate response and evident breach of contract by misdescription / miselling mean that no legal transfer of ownership has taken place from herself to me and therefore could she pick up her horse and return my money ..... she has now offered to ride. It's a crying shame that she didn't do this Tuesday when I rang her and she ignored calls or texts or yesterday instead of the illadvised sheepskin noseband comment - how can she expect to be trusted now? My advice is as I have already repudiated the contract her job will be to argue this in court and her riding or not riding now isn't relevant s she let things get to tht point by not responding. She also said that she isn't in a position to keep him - well don't deal horses then it's a commercial risk?? I've advised again that she needs to remove her horse and refund PDQ or I will be forced down legal route and will have to claim costs for reschooling the poor lad too.
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Go Shivvy!!! That sounds stern

Let us know how it goes. Its such a hard thing to happen. My Daughter got a new 5yo in April, similar situation - Heartbreaking. Its not just the value of the horse but thinking about what will happen to them if you don't keep them. Ours came from Ireland and had 3-4wks at dealers yard before being sold on. He was a case of too much work too soon (not physically mature yet). My daughter chose to work through problems and, despite being dumped on her backside quite a few times, is finally getting somewhere. He can can now hack without panicking, napping, falling over or all three! can walk and trot in a straight line and can just about canter! Still a long way from the RC all rounder she wanted!

Good luck
 
For what it's worth, I think you are doing exactly the right thing.

Just another thought though, seeing as he has had so many previous owners, have you thought about trying to contact them to find out why they passed him on so quickly? If you can build a pattern of his character (ie he is a known rearer) then I would imagine it would help your possible court case as the seller must have known.
 
"about what will happen to them if you don't keep them"
Exactly Magicmillbrook whay this is heart wrenching

"Just another thought though, seeing as he has had so many previous owners, have you thought about trying to contact them to find out why they passed him on so quickly? If you can build a pattern of his character (ie he is a known rearer) then I would imagine it would help your possible court case as the seller must have known. "

Galaxy I want to do this but don't have name of last owner before seller just that she is now a groom to a very well know eventer trying to think how to do this on the forum without identifying the horse and thereforer seller who says she is a private seller but produces horses for sale.
 
Shivvy said:
"about what will happen to them if you don't keep them"
Exactly Magicmillbrook whay this is heart wrenching

"Just another thought though, seeing as he has had so many previous owners, have you thought about trying to contact them to find out why they passed him on so quickly? If you can build a pattern of his character (ie he is a known rearer) then I would imagine it would help your possible court case as the seller must have known. "

Galaxy I want to do this but don't have name of last owner before seller just that she is now a groom to a very well know eventer trying to think how to do this on the forum without identifying the horse and thereforer seller who says she is a private seller but produces horses for sale.
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does his passport not list all the previous owners?
 
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