Help new pony not as described!

H

Horse1979

Active Member
Joined
14 April 2016
Messages
43
Visit site
We just got a new pony. Described as a good all rounder ridden but a 5 yr old off lead and 1m sj with a more experienced rider. They had sent the pony up north for 6 months as they had the opportunity of a great rider to compete BS for 6 months and have them sell him for them. However they didn't manage to sell him so he went back to owners. Pony had just come back to them when they advertised him. We went and saw him and they said he was great but could nap going into a sj ring and had on one occasion lifted front two feet off the floor but never done it again.
So.... We decide being only 7 a bit of napping is ok as we can work with that. ( by the way this was NOT a cheap pony) so we get him home and the next day have the first ride on him to discover he violently head shakes in the ménage. We tried to persevere but it was so bad my daughter was having reins pulled from her. So we take him in the field to see if it helps him- nope, just as bad! After 45 mins we give up! The lady who had him up north who's V experienced daughter had been riding him on the sales livery message me on Facebook to say congrats on buying him if I needed any advise etc to call her as they have had him for 6 months and know him well. So, as I didn't want to bother old owners at this stage and only being one day in- I call lady up north! What she tells me about this pony had my jaw on the floor! She is a very reputable lady , knows her stuff and has an established reputation to look after so I trust her word.she said he genuinely hadn't head shook apart from once. However, this pony was NOT for the faint hearted as he will go bolt upright at shows, he also drops his shoulder and has a buck in him! His napping is so bad to one side that his hole body needed months of physio! I told her I was not told anything of the sort when i got him and she said that's why she didn't sell him as she was so honest about him! I then contacted the old owner and said just to keep them informed first ride didn't go well- however we have a lesson with our dressage instructor the next day and will keep fingers crossed the head shaking stops! However- i did not know this pony was so bad at shows at all! My daughter is young and not experienced enough for this! It was a private sale and I'm worried to try and take him off yard!! Where do I stand. I did not let the owner know I had spoke to lady up north yesterday- help!!!! The text I got back from the old owners was defensive and as if they don't give a crap!
What are my rights as private buyer???? I did not sign anything to say sold as seen!!
Thanks
 
Did you have him vetted? Was he head shaking when you tried him? Unless you specifically asked about head shaking, you haven't got a leg to stand on in that respect.
 
He didn't head shake at all when we went to try him so never asked. I asked what quirks he has and the worst he had ever done and wasn't told anything that was a jaw dropper. However, the lady up north has described a pony that has scared the hell out of someone who had him on trial and he is NOT for a young inexperienced rider which my daughter is! Due to his boot u right rearing at shows, the buck he has in him, his shoulder dropping and the severe napping that has required him to have physio for past 6 months!
Definitely none of this was disclosed to me at all! 😢
 
But you don't know that he does any of this, it's only what you've been told. The only thing you've experienced is the head shaking. Did you get him vetted?
 
Talk to the old owners ASAP and see if they will take him back. If they refuse talk to an equine solicitor immediately, a letter from him may force them into taking him back. Otherwise you face a legal battle with an uncertain outcome.

Out of interest why did you decide that an unvetted, nappy pony was a suitable choice for an inexperienced child rider?
 
The napping was described as push him forward and he immediately stops. They said he will just refuse to move but one kick and it's not a pi'roblem. My daughter would not be phased by that at all. But the fact that the napping is no where to the degree they described is not honest.
I didn't have a betting due to individual choice. the vetting would cover me for health issues where's the issues I have is a completed mid sold pony! I even said to them in my initial email enquiry k am after a first ridden type. Which they responded he is brilliant in all ways. I have kept all correspondence with them and will proceed with the lesson today. If the head shaking continues today I will immediately call them followed by a letter of events and proof he is not as described and I have been completely mislead as a buyer. If the head shaking does stop I will continue with him and take him out to a show to see how he behaves.
I just treated the people I was buying from - one mother to another! 😢
 
If you have a copy of the advert which specifically says good at shows, no vices etc etc and the person he was on sales livery with is willing to do a statement to prove the owner knew about the ponies problems then you do have a leg to stand on. You just have to be able to prove that the owner knew about the ponies problems. Misrepresentation! Send a letter before action to the owner. PM me if you want any help, I went through this recently with a lot of help from someone on here and got the full purchase price back (after months of stress and having filed a court claim). You ARE protected with a private sale, it is not just buyer beware, it's just harder to prove. You will need the video evidence and the back up of the sales livery person though.
 
Thankyou so much! Not sure how I PM u on here? Quite new to it all but will work it out! I have copy of advert although doesn't say much details but I have my correspondence with them saying I really need a first type pony in which they replied saying he is superb in all ways etc etc. yes the lady up north has a fantastic reputation in the equestrian field and doesn't want to be part of a completely mis sold pony. She has already said she can not believe he has gone to a young rider she specifically told them he needs an order very strong and experienced rider when she returned him to them hence why she never managed to sell him as she was so honest.
She has been very helpful indeed.
She also have videos of his behaviour at shows and says it's every time out not just here me there it's consistently bad and he needs leading into any ring to get him in there too.
Will try and pm you x
 
Buy in haste repent at leisure .
Where did you try the pony it's interesting it did not headshake when you tried it .
Always always get a pony vetted it freaks me that people would their child on an animal that may have a serious defect.
Always treat any horse that's been away competing and then returned home and is being sold with caution theresalways a good chance there's a back story that's not quite as it seems.
OP I would ring the owner and say you returning the pony this afternoon and you want your money back .
Tell them the pony was misrepresented and you will seek legal advice on Monday to resolve the issue .
They might just quickly take it back .
 
Goldenstar said:
Buy in haste repent at leisure .
Where did you try the pony it's interesting it did not headshake when you tried it .
Always always get a pony vetted it freaks me that people would their child on an animal that may have a serious defect.
Always treat any horse that's been away competing and then returned home and is being sold with caution theresalways a good chance there's a back story that's not quite as it seems.
OP I would ring the owner and say you returning the pony this afternoon and you want your money back .
Tell them the pony was misrepresented and you will seek legal advice on Monday to resolve the issue .
They might just quickly take it back .
Click to expand...

This.

Get it back ASAP. There was clearly an issue with it if it was on sales livery for 6 months and returned, good ponies will always sell. Vettings should always be done when buying for children.
 
Thankyou! I will certainly do that today!
If that doesn't work I will move to legal proceedings on Monday. Poor pony will end up in the wrong hands which is unfair on him too if they don't take his best interests into account.
What got me was the fact her reply to my text was so defensive yet they were deverstated when he left them!!
 
Yeah sorry but agree with others you should have had him vetted even more so because he was expensive. You may have just wasted a lot of money and have a pony you will not be able to sell.

Speak to a solicitor and the bhs but honestly maybe don't get your hopes up. Hopefully the threat from the solicitor will make the old owners take him back. It usually does really people rarely argue with a lawyer.

If you do manage to get the old owners to take him back and get your money back, learn from this please. Get the pony vetted and get the pony tried by a more experienced rider if possible as well as have your daughter ride the pony a few times not just once and in all situations. You can't be too careful with your kids life. Maybe try going round riding schools and livery yards to see if anyone can recommend a pony to buy. You are more likely to find a better one that way than via ads online where it's easy for people to lie. They often won't to your face or at least it's easier to tell if they are. Good luck hope you get rid of the pony. For proof of his issues see if you can get a detailed letter or email from that physio and any contact the person up north had with a vet about him. That's then proof he was mis sold.
 
The head shaking is very much a medical issue and may well have been picked up at the vetting. In any case where a horse naps you have to start with a vet visit to exclude a physical reason, so again it's very odd that you did not vet the pony.

That's by the by and for future reference. For now hopefully the owners will agree to take him back without too much hassle.
 
In fairness the head shaking may not be head shaking as we would understand it - caused by nerve pain and uncontrollable. Some competition ponies shake their heads violently to see if they can get the rider to let go of the reins. It can be a reaction to an over tight contact, an evasion due to tack discomfort like a tight noseband or just napping - not true head shaking. (I only say competition ponies because I've had one that did this and was a competition pony. Others may well work it out too!) That might be with the sales livery person did not see it.

But - hopefully you can get this one back to its previous owners. It will be a long hard fight though and you'll have the cost of the pony until the courts resolve it unless they give in ASAP. Depending on your circumstances can you buy another whilst you keep this one? You daughter's time in juniors is very short! You might need to decide if the cost is worth it or just have this one PTS if it really is that dangerous and try again.

In my experience a BS SJ Juniors competition pony is about as far removed from a PC type pony as a privately owned pony is from a riding school pony. There are a lot of parents who think they can buy a rosette magnet but don't really have the experience. Not saying this is you OP - but it certainly was me with the first competition pony we bought. Next time please have the animal vetted - you are not just looking for pre exisitng medical conditions but also for the possibility that the pony has been doped for trial. Get references from the local BS area co-ordinator. How has it behaved at shows and in training? Would they recommend it? If it is a junior pony and has not been seen in the Academy - why? Ditto if it is a PC/RC member. If its been brought on by an adult - why?

There is a massive market for people who want junior BS ponies and will pay a fair bit for them - but not as much as a really proven top quality one. So they get broken early, over jumped often by an adult, but certainly by a very experienced rider, to get a quick competition record and then sold on fast. Obviously not everyone - or even a majority do this. Many sellers are genuine and honest. But there are a lot of unscrupulous ones out there too!
 
Re the headshaking, it may be an external cause,. like pollen or small flies. My old horse used to headshake violently when the rape seed flowers were out, but never otherwise.
 
I am sorry you have had this experience. If the pony has been mis-sold then it does not matter that it was a private sale. If it was just not fit for purpose then only a dealer would have to take it back, but if a lie was told then a private vendor will also have to take it back.

You say you have seen a video? If it is on Youtube I would "rip" it (there are apps on t'interweb) so you have that video in YOUR computer, or even take a home video of it playing on your computer. That way you have proof of what it does, as well as their correspondence saying it does not.

I would contact an Equine Solicitor for them to send a letter explaining why you are returning said pony for the money back.

To my mind, to win at court you would need the trainer from up north to give a statement to say that the video you have was not a one off (as she said it had reared as a one off). Or, if there are numerous videos of pony rearing then the fact that she has misrepresented it is proved.

BHS legal helpline is a good one to contact.

Personally I would not put my daughter on the pony for the lesson. Even if it behaves you probably won't want to keep it as the behaviour at shows is too bad. So, I don't see the gain. No point in taking the risk, and also letting your daughter get more fond of the pony.

Good luck!
 
Not trying to defend the pony but a 'hard core' BS situation isnt for every pony and in the six months that he was 'up north' anything could have happened, some of these competition ponies are fed rocket fuel and have minimal turnout. Perhaps have a stalk on the BS people's facebook page a bit further back to see what the pony was like when he first arrived there - they had the pony six months so if it was a tearaway lunatic I am not sure why they kept it.

It wouldn't be the first time a pony has gone round the twist in a pressured situation that reverts to being fine in a 'normal' home and the napping before entering the ring may speak volumes so I am not sure I would be so quick to tar the pony though appreciate that having children you may see it rather differently

As for the headshaking I would get teeth/bridle/bit checked if you want to persist with the pony, if its apparently a new thing again I wouldn't be quick to write off the pony, perhaps try a snaffle (if not already) and get a more confident rider up top as a trial and see what happens

As you said yourself on your other thread when the boot was on the other foot - ponies are not robots
 
Not getting him vetted wsa a big mistake - did you try him away from home ? how was he when you tried him?
I have to say you bought him knowing he might rear as he has history so you won't have any comeback on that - you can try and send him back for head shaking but good luck if it's not a dealer.. buyer beware.
 
also - I woudl get a full health chk . plenty of napping ponies nap due to back pain or lameness....
 
The thing is that so far all the pony has done is headshake. The trainer said this was not usual for the pony. It could well be an evasion and not a medical issue, however that's irrelevant as you never got it vetted and I presume that advert didn't state " not a head shaker". As only then would it be mis-sold.

What the trainer then goes on to tell you is hearsay. Yes they may have a fabulous reputation, but as it currently stands the pony has not done anything wrong. You were told when you bought it that it reared at a show, the video shows that.

The part where this situation gets tricky is that you don't want to wait to find out if all that the trainer said is true, you cant take that risk. However you can't tell at this point if there is bad blood between the 2 other parties.

I think the only way to proceed is to get an experienced rider, not connected with the situation to test the pony. Over several days and situations, to be able to give you an independant assesment of if the pony is fit for purpose.

If you were to take it to court to try to prove the pony is not fit for purpose, you would be asked what the pony has done wrong. When you answer " well nothing, but someone told me something" it won't go down well. If you can say we have tried the pony " it has x y z bad behaviors which make it mis sold, as well as we have written confirmation from a trainer in the ponies past that it was like this before we bought it" - then you have a chance.
 
alainax said:
The thing is that so far all the pony has done is headshake. The trainer said this was not usual for the pony. It could well be an evasion and not a medical issue, however that's irrelevant as you never got it vetted and I presume that advert didn't state " not a head shaker". As only then would it be mis-sold.

What the trainer then goes on to tell you is hearsay. Yes they may have a fabulous reputation, but as it currently stands the pony has not done anything wrong. You were told when you bought it that it reared at a show, the video shows that.

The part where this situation gets tricky is that you don't want to wait to find out if all that the trainer said is true, you cant take that risk. However you can't tell at this point if there is bad blood between the 2 other parties.

I think the only way to proceed is to get an experienced rider, not connected with the situation to test the pony. Over several days and situations, to be able to give you an independant assesment of if the pony is fit for purpose.

If you were to take it to court to try to prove the pony is not fit for purpose, you would be asked what the pony has done wrong. When you answer " well nothing, but someone told me something" it won't go down well. If you can say we have tried the pony " it has x y z bad behaviors which make it mis sold, as well as we have written confirmation from a trainer in the ponies past that it was like this before we bought it" - then you have a chance.
Click to expand...

^^ This exactly. You say the pony went well when viewed so persevere for a few more weeks and see if pony settles with a more experienced/confident rider and see where you go from there. I would be inclined to take what the trainer said with a pinch of salt as you have no idea if that environment was too much, harsh methods/riding or just plain sour grapes between them and seller, of coarse they could be absolutely correct but if the ponys only issue whilst with you is head shaking (which let's face it could be something or nothing but even the trainer said that wasn't an issue they knew of) I would hold off till you know for sure the full extent of the potential issues pony may have as you will need to know full details, facts and proof that the pony is not fit for purpose before any legal proceedings can commence
 
Could there have been a lot of little flys around? I know it's been warm where I am the past few days and my horse has been having a bit of a fuss with his head going through them. I don't know if you've had the same weather though and it's just a thought.
 
We have a 20yr old pony who will shake and pull at the reins if he is not in the mood to be ridden, has almost pulled daughter over his shoulders. Its a learned behaviour.

Our other pony was sent away on loan last year. He went as a fairly green but not vicious/fizzy pony. I got a nutter back!! He was ridden in side reins and fed on performance feed. It has taken 2 months off feed and on clamers and with not fast work for him to calm down. He still wants to canter everywhere but he doesn't rocker off now.

both also nap to the gate if they do not want to be ridden as they know a 7yr old or 9yr old is no match for them. I know the younger one has reared when on loan, I have photographic proof. He has never reared with my daughter on him - just someone who said they were 8 stone when they were nearer 9. The older one will throw a tiny buck if he decides he doesnt want to do something - but its so insignificant. He was also a complete tit for the first month we owned him and daughter was getting shoogled off and he was running off with her.

I did get someone older (and about 7stone!) to ride them both a few times to make sure they would be safe for the kids. My 3 year old rides and steers the older one himself.
 
They have agreed to take pony back! As a mum who has seen very serious riding accidents I am not taking the risk of the pony being a nutter. The evidence I've seen is enough to not want to put my daughter on him.
The sellers out right lied to get money for him - terrible
 
I am very pleased they have agreed to take the pony back.

Yes, they may well have lied which is very wrong but you have also made a few mistakes. You were at best naive and at worst downright stupid buying a pony known to nap and rear and not having it vetted.

Hopefully you will be a bit wiser when you go to buy the next one.
 
Horse1979 said:
They have agreed to take pony back! As a mum who has seen very serious riding accidents I am not taking the risk of the pony being a nutter. The evidence I've seen is enough to not want to put my daughter on him.
The sellers out right lied to get money for him - terrible
Click to expand...

I'm pleased it has worked out for you and hope the poor boy doesnt end up in the wrong hands. Sounds like he has some issues that need to be dealt with.

I would strongly advise that you have any future pony vetted fully and blood tested. It would be worth trying ponies out in different situations also so you can see their reactions to various things for yourself. Good luck finding the next one.
 
Horse1979 said:
They have agreed to take pony back! As a mum who has seen very serious riding accidents I am not taking the risk of the pony being a nutter. The evidence I've seen is enough to not want to put my daughter on him.
The sellers out right lied to get money for him - terrible
Click to expand...

That is great news. Get it back to them asap and make sure they give you your money back as well.

Does your daughter have an instructor who could help you evaluate the next possible purchase? And definitely get anything you want to buy vetted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top