Help! Pea gravel / all weather turnout

[Mango_goose]

Essentially in a bit of a pickle. My 15y/o and 10y/o geldings are now effectively “homeless” with a multitude of problems attached! major one being how do I make an all weather turnout pen?!

my 15 y/o has equine asthma so doesn’t do well stabled, and he is always the bullied/ mauled horse in every herd he’s been in. I’m also a post grad student so I don’t have money for a livery yard (not that any would be suitable anyway!).

My only solution has been to move them into my parents’ which is completely doable and my dad is particularly keen. We have a neighbour renting a portion of her land to us to also graze which is fab. We have a sycamore tree to fence off and a turnout pen to build.

They would be grazing for a large portion of the year but for a month or two they would be in an all weather turnout pen. It’s about the size of a small indoor school so ample room, with the added bonus of a shelter.

I’m looking a mixture of pea gravel and rubber chips. Rubber chips in the shelter, pea gravel in the outside part. Currently the turnout pen area is just hardcore. We’re looking at building a drainage system and then sticking down the pea gravel / chips. Anything else I should be doing?

Scrambling to get this sorted asap. Very urgent, not masses of money to spend. Horses would be in for weeks on end during bad weather.

 

[ihatework]

I wouldn’t use rubber that’s for sure! You’ll need to skip out the shelter and you really don’t want bits of rubber mixing in your muck heap.

What sort of drainage do both areas have. Grano dust might be a better option. Or just compacted down road planings.

 

[Mango_goose]

I wouldn’t use rubber that’s for sure! You’ll need to skip out the shelter and you really don’t want bits of rubber mixing in your muck heap.

What sort of drainage do both areas have. Grano dust might be a better option. Or just compacted down road planings.

Will they be okay to lie on gravel? That was my only concern! Truthfully I have no clue what drainage my dad is putting in (tradesman) but he’s previously built in field drainage that works a treat, so I assume he’ll use the same. The turnout pen is going to be half shelter, half open. The ground is compacted hard core atm

 

[ihatework]

I wouldn’t expect mine to lie on gravel.

I assume you are wanting to steer clear of bedding for asthma reasons? The obvious would be to pop straw down in the shelter (I actually use straw pellet for muck heap size logistics), but assuming that’s a no, sand possibly?

Otherwise field guard do a complete bedding system made of rubber that’s springy and drains

 

[darcip]

I used road plannings for mine and it worked perfect just needs to be put down thick

 

[LEC]

We have stone dust and it's fab. Hardwearing, easy to clean and on the whole a nice surface. If I wanted somewhere for them to lie down I would create a sand pit/bark area for them. We only use ours in winter so they don't need a lie down patch as have decent stables and we let them into sand/rubber for a roll. The sand rubber is great but terrible as effectively waste product so ridiculously tricky to get rid of.

 

[Mango_goose]

I wouldn’t expect mine to lie on gravel.

I assume you are wanting to steer clear of bedding for asthma reasons? The obvious would be to pop straw down in the shelter (I actually use straw pellet for muck heap size logistics), but assuming that’s a no, sand possibly?

Otherwise field guard do a complete bedding system made of rubber that’s springy and drains

Can’t use bedding as you said, and sand is 100% a no go as the younger horse will eat it perhaps if I lie down a few rubber mats?

 

[palo1]

Can’t use bedding as you said, and sand is 100% a no go as the younger horse will eat it perhaps if I lie down a few rubber mats?

I use rubber mats on top of hardcore (whacked flat!) but they could go straight onto earth if in the shelter. Pea gravel will get utterly disgusting - impossible to muck out without expense and will stink of wee unless you wash it regularly (deffo not good for respiratory health) I know this from experience... It is also awful to dispose of so I wouldn't use that anywhere tbh. I use straw pellets very successfully with my asthmatic horse but cardboard might work? Mine will happily lie on the rubber mats or bare earth as they have plenty of other places to wee and poo. Which they do in quite an organised, predictable way! Good luck - it sounds like it will work well once you have the details sorted.

 

[HorseMaid]

My whole yard is heavy rubber stable mats on top of whackered down hardcore/type 1, done in a hurry over two years ago now and still working well. It doesn't looked the prettiest but is very functional and I hope will be fine until I can afford to have it all concreted!

 

[sportsmansB]

My shelter has woodchip base (delivered from local tree surgeon for £40 a load) on top of stones, and since it is covered it doesn't get too wet and just needs the poos lifted out and more woodchip in periodically. Wee soaks down through the woodchip through the stones and goes away. Its only open on one side. Small bit of woodchip gets in with poos but not enough to impact them rotting down in the muck heap. They happily lie down on it.

 

[Mango_goose]

My whole yard is heavy rubber stable mats on top of whackered down hardcore/type 1, done in a hurry over two years ago now and still working well. It doesn't looked the prettiest but is very functional and I hope will be fine until I can afford to have it all concreted!

For me it’s in my parents front garden so my dad would not be happy chappy if we just stuck to the matting - although I’ll probably leave the matting in the shelter and pea gravel the rest!

 

[Mango_goose]

My shelter has woodchip base (delivered from local tree surgeon for £40 a load) on top of stones, and since it is covered it doesn't get too wet and just needs the poos lifted out and more woodchip in periodically. Wee soaks down through the woodchip through the stones and goes away. Its only open on one side. Small bit of woodchip gets in with poos but not enough to impact them rotting down in the muck heap. They happily lie down on it.

I wish we had the option of wood chips but we’re trying to avoid anything that could grow fungus / rot near my 15 y/o

 

[ihatework]

For me it’s in my parents front garden so my dad would not be happy chappy if we just stuck to the matting - although I’ll probably leave the matting in the shelter and pea gravel the rest!

Honestly I’d use dust rather than pea gravel!

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I have compacted planings in the shelter and hardcore to dust outside. No maintenance required except pick up poo. Maybe a matted area to lie on.

 

[PurBee]

I wish we had the option of wood chips but we’re trying to avoid anything that could grow fungus / rot near my 15 y/o

Fir tree wood chips are more resistant to fungus development, than any other wood type. The firs have natural anti-fungal anti-bacterial oils/resin that resists fungal growth. It would only be at the last stage of fir wood chip decomposition when they start to break apart and become mush that the resins would likely be ‘spent’ and fungal spores would grow to help final stage rotting.
I’m into growing mushrooms and fir tree anything is avoided due to the resistance of the substrate to taking up fungal spores and growing them.
We used large chips too - size matters, large won’t break down as fast - 3-6inch long pieces by 1 inch.

We had a large patch of fir wood chips put down outside, as like you I wanted to trial not having dusty bedding in their shelter. They laid on the wood chips put down- if it is deep enough. Within 2 years the chips were breaking down and reducing, but that is more to do with my climate of 2/3 of the year it’s raining. If I had used the chips in the shelter they would have lasted longer due to being kept drier.

All situations/locations are different so you’ll only know what works for you by trialling ideas. What has worked for some might not work for you, and vice versa.

I used rubber crumb 1 inch thick mats in their large shelter with wood chips large area outside under trees, and they did lay on the rubber mats in the shelter, but got hock hair burn pretty quickly, so I aborted that idea and bedded the shelter with various things, except straw.

I can’t believe you have a sand eater! What a menace!

Having bits of rubber in your muck heap needs declaring to anyone who removes it for you, as most won’t want to spread the rubber tainted muck on land. It will limit the dungs next usage, so if using rubber, figure out how to not get it in the muck heap, or use something else that eventually rots. I considered rubber chunks at one point too and the visions of me picking bits of rubber out of every 20+ dungs per day made me shiver! LOL

Limestone rock dust should be alkaline, so if compacted and used for a urine base, it should absorb the urine and prevent smell. That’s theory, not practiced but worth considering. Many on here have mentioned having just earth floor in outside shelters that don’t smell, the earth absorbs the wee, they have a bit of bedding. It depends on soil type and if they do ALL their wee’s in there.

My pea gravel trial was ok in the beginning - it stayed loose and lovely footing for them, they loved it. But over time it compacted to become a hardcore layer.
I raked it to clean hay/bedding off it, but it would have required constant raking to keep it loose. So I ditched the raking every day as time restraints dictated!
Can you imagine having to pick rubber out of each poop and raking an arena sized area by hand daily aswell as feed/care for them…that was almost me!
Unless you’ve got a quad with a rake attachment to literally for 2 mins run over the pea gravel to keep it loose every other day, it likely will compact into a firm layer over time as mud comes off the horses hooves from the fields, drops onto the gravel. Gravel+ mud+horse heavy footfall+time = condensed layer. We used washed loose pea gravel too, no dust.

While you’re making the area consider hay net hanging posts installed inside of the fencing dotted about to keep them moving whenever they are kept in there, rather than stationed at one feed point. If you use your fenceline posts for hanging haynets, if at any point you need to run electric fencing across the top of the fence to stop them rubbing/scratching on it, or for more security, you won’t be able to use the fence posts for hay net hanging, as the risk of them accidently touching the electric line while the bag swings about is likely. It’s something I wished I had done, so I instead just dump hay piles all over on the floor of their dry turnout area. Thats fine with dry hay, but soaked hay would get floor muck/dust on it and isn’t ideal.

 

[Exasperated]

For the shelter - whack down the existing earth / whatever surface, to fairly level, or a minimal slope to wherever you would want it to drain (you might want to jet wash and clean your shelter at some point), even if your horses pee like maniacs, they’ll probably do so outside if no bedding, and even if inside - pee will soak away thru-
Rubber mats, directly down onto the surface.
Far easier to sweep out!
Works great, but don’t assume they’ll actually lie down in there, bedding or not. Generally, go in to eat any haynets, maybe dodge worst downpours, stand out of the sun and flies. There’s a silly beggar here will lie fast asleep on the snow in front of a beautifully rubber matted and straw bedded shelter.... cats sleep in it tho’.
Since your Dad knows his stuff and also has to look at it, I should let him decide about the other, good luck, sounds a great solution!

 

[poiuytrewq]

I have an all weather turnout area, Its not huge but has been a complete life saver. Absolutely worth doing. My first mistake was using bark, don't do that!
Pea gravel would be great for feet especially if they are unshod, I'd love a pea gravel area. We actually were lucky enought to be offered some very cheap school/gallop surface.I'm not 100% sure what it is exactly but its like tiny bits of plastic, mostly black but coloured bits as well. Mixed with some kind of dark sandy stuff. It's great. Free draining, they LOVE to roll in it and are all very happy to lie in the sun on it, although it's become really compacted now and could do with turning or harrowing really. I use a blower to blow off loose hay and its very easy to fork poo off.

 

[palo1]

I use straw pellets as a bed under cover with rubber mats round the outside of that and the haynets hang in various places over the mats so I can sweep up easily. The straw pellets are fab actually and make a lovely firm, spring bed that my sensitive horse is fine with. Externally I have hardcore whacked down which is also sweepable! I love this combo.

 

[CastlelackSportHorses]

We have 3 large winter turnouts. All with pea gravel.
It had to be kept topped up/harrowed or does compact.
Horse lie in regularly.
Its a god send for the wet winter in Ireland and easy to muck out.

 

[Mango_goose]

Fir tree wood chips are more resistant to fungus development, than any other wood type. The firs have natural anti-fungal anti-bacterial oils/resin that resists fungal growth. It would only be at the last stage of fir wood chip decomposition when they start to break apart and become mush that the resins would likely be ‘spent’ and fungal spores would grow to help final stage rotting.
I’m into growing mushrooms and fir tree anything is avoided due to the resistance of the substrate to taking up fungal spores and growing them.
We used large chips too - size matters, large won’t break down as fast - 3-6inch long pieces by 1 inch.

We had a large patch of fir wood chips put down outside, as like you I wanted to trial not having dusty bedding in their shelter. They laid on the wood chips put down- if it is deep enough. Within 2 years the chips were breaking down and reducing, but that is more to do with my climate of 2/3 of the year it’s raining. If I had used the chips in the shelter they would have lasted longer due to being kept drier.

All situations/locations are different so you’ll only know what works for you by trialling ideas. What has worked for some might not work for you, and vice versa.

I used rubber crumb 1 inch thick mats in their large shelter with wood chips large area outside under trees, and they did lay on the rubber mats in the shelter, but got hock hair burn pretty quickly, so I aborted that idea and bedded the shelter with various things, except straw.

I can’t believe you have a sand eater! What a menace!

Having bits of rubber in your muck heap needs declaring to anyone who removes it for you, as most won’t want to spread the rubber tainted muck on land. It will limit the dungs next usage, so if using rubber, figure out how to not get it in the muck heap, or use something else that eventually rots. I considered rubber chunks at one point too and the visions of me picking bits of rubber out of every 20+ dungs per day made me shiver! LOL

Limestone rock dust should be alkaline, so if compacted and used for a urine base, it should absorb the urine and prevent smell. That’s theory, not practiced but worth considering. Many on here have mentioned having just earth floor in outside shelters that don’t smell, the earth absorbs the wee, they have a bit of bedding. It depends on soil type and if they do ALL their wee’s in there.

My pea gravel trial was ok in the beginning - it stayed loose and lovely footing for them, they loved it. But over time it compacted to become a hardcore layer.
I raked it to clean hay/bedding off it, but it would have required constant raking to keep it loose. So I ditched the raking every day as time restraints dictated!
Can you imagine having to pick rubber out of each poop and raking an arena sized area by hand daily aswell as feed/care for them…that was almost me!
Unless you’ve got a quad with a rake attachment to literally for 2 mins run over the pea gravel to keep it loose every other day, it likely will compact into a firm layer over time as mud comes off the horses hooves from the fields, drops onto the gravel. Gravel+ mud+horse heavy footfall+time = condensed layer. We used washed loose pea gravel too, no dust.

While you’re making the area consider hay net hanging posts installed inside of the fencing dotted about to keep them moving whenever they are kept in there, rather than stationed at one feed point. If you use your fenceline posts for hanging haynets, if at any point you need to run electric fencing across the top of the fence to stop them rubbing/scratching on it, or for more security, you won’t be able to use the fence posts for hay net hanging, as the risk of them accidently touching the electric line while the bag swings about is likely. It’s something I wished I had done, so I instead just dump hay piles all over on the floor of their dry turnout area. Thats fine with dry hay, but soaked hay would get floor muck/dust on it and isn’t ideal.

Thank you so much for that info, it’s fab!
Luckily we have an on-site composting area in which only ever use it on our property (of family come over and take what they need for their gardens) so obviously we’d disclose to anyone coming over

The wood chips could be a good idea so I’ll reconsider, although I worry about them retaining water?

 

[PurBee]

Thank you so much for that info, it’s fab!
Luckily we have an on-site composting area in which only ever use it on our property (of family come over and take what they need for their gardens) so obviously we’d disclose to anyone coming over

The wood chips could be a good idea so I’ll reconsider, although I worry about them retaining water?

It really depends on the wood chip size/quality and your climate as to whether it remains a wet/damp footing or have drying-out cycles.
Screened wood chips wouldn’t have all the smaller bits and chaff with it.
We got ours from a local farmer with a massive chipper who gets local forestry fir trees to chip up - he delivers bulk trailer loads in his tractor. There was bark and smaller chaffy bits in with it, as well as mostly large chips. It was used externally so was rained on very regularly (west Ireland) and remained damp. Although in a drier week it had a chance to dry out.

You could trial it on a smaller area, than risk doing a large area and it not working how you need it to. That way you get to really know how the type of woodchip available to you performs in your conditions. Just make sure it’s fir tree wood chip. Other tree types chip will rot faster.

The only thing about wood chips mentioned a few times on the forum is that for arenas/canter/fast work - it’s not an ideal surface as it can be slippy. I used it on the outside turnout dry lot over hardcore and straight on grass/mud areas, and the younger colt at the time hooned around plenty, without incident, but like I said, the chip I got had chaffy small bits in it and rough bark allowing it to kind of knit together as a bulk surface, rather than be a depth of slippy separate large chips. I think the performance of it does very much depend on the type/size/depth of chip used. We put down roughly 6 inches everywhere.