Help please.GSD gastric issues/diet/enzymes/gut flora

SaharaS

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On mobile will try keep this basic points (you know that wont happen!)will have lots of predictive typos and will turn epic so grab a duvet!

Please can anyone advise/help me thru this as my vet has told me to email but hasnt bothered responding and feeling a bit desperate/abandoned.

White Shepherd.entire male.6 on aug 10.
Reactive rescue with me since June 2011.came with baggage but generrally happy and healthy.never needed vet till aug this year.

was raw fed/home cooked fed till aug 10 2015.home cooked only since.always been lean from his high energy levels and stressy nature but with him 24/7 & since bf appeared on scene he has calmed massively. New rescue joined us in april is v chilled and made him more relaxed still.

diarrhoea loose stools not true runs fri27jul and 9 hours hellish car journey excessive licking anal gland abcess appeared &on the sun eve burst ..angry and fast.saw vet mon.antibs for ten days.

stopped raw food after diarrhoea thinking my confidence dropped in my mince supplier and the rabbit mince was poss the trigger meal. Both dogs breath had become slightly more noticeable do swapped to home cooked raw tripe chicken wings and necks and meaty bones (lamb necks) to replace the bone missing from mince being stopped .

on advice from a group I gave three over six days.teeth and breath were whiter and imoroced after first.aug 14-18.18th I noticed watery blood from anal gland abcess site and looser stools buyt not runs.he had been pooing inch size shapes of bone.

vet said stop the bones completely so he stayed on home cooked.chicken, rice, veggies, turmeric coconut oil etc fish eggs milk tripe offal heart.

He always has three meals per day.
bella my Estrela mountain dog had 4 occasions in the days of last week of aug with runny poo on her feathers then
Aug 31 Connie brought three meals back up undigested .

next am was projectile waterjet poos.she was fine so suspect cooked frozen liver or the ride or chicken of the weekend upset him as she was s bit loose again.

took him to vet tues1st sept(diarrhoea day) vet looked st him from across the room.i showed his gums without being asked no pulse breathing resp or temperature taken tho did palate tummy and gave antisickness jab.

5 days omepeazole and a tube of cannicur pre/pro biotics.(5ml twice day for 3days.) Told feed 6times a day from tablespoon size up feed bland foods chicken and rice as you would a person with ibs.vet thought it was from too much food variety. Had been slowly improving till the sat 5th.some nights less busy..thurs was up hourly.

I noticed he would graze frantically in the early hours and have grassy sick.a couple had blood specs.i put this down to straining.thurs he had a colitisy mucousy loose poo vet said should firm by weekend(email).sat am he had runs and grassy sick with bloody spots spoke to vet on phone.

As well in himself she gave more canicur paste and another 5days omeprazole.we thought poss chicken sensitive so feed scrambled eggs as before but fish and rice.first vet is very pro kibble which I will not feed.

By lunch he had the most rancid wind and I saw undigested rice in stools so took him off rice replaced with sweet potato.may have been my fault cooking too fast rather than the white basmati rice.he settled and poos improved.

He has lost a lot of weight tho was lean after the abcess but I felt he was bright and well in himself tho kept hiding/ under ved before any episodes so hes bee wearing his thundershirt..that seemed to help and has had either that or a looser fleece jacket on since sat as he looked and behaved cold without..I wanted him to kerp energy for recovery and not lose weight so comfort breaks garden access but short walks to keep mobility without loosing weight if we meet too many triggers.

The nights have been less interrupted and longer as I increased his portions (still on7meals a day) if feed at 0030 he was getting to 430 and needing a grassy sick but no blood and less each time.
poos improving but some soft others better..all have form now.yeo live yoghurt has helped.

Only had one undigested food return (mon lunch1.5hr later)but that was poss my fault not mashing enough so have blitzed to baby puree.improved still.better in himself stronger on walks.

last omeprazole was thurs 10pm. Only a small grassy sick and slept thru1230 -630.

I am hanging exhausted and with ME /fibromyalgia this has been tough on me but coping so yesterday decided ti cook all days food up in morning..blitz and portion it.cool and in fridge then the day would be easier.he didnt digest the peel on the sweet potato so I have to peel them.last night he had a sudden violent puke at 145..only a tablespoon of puree of the 400g he had at0030..

I wonder if this was the fish having been blitzed since morning and enzymes fermenting (I added hot water and mixed to take chill off).he had an urgent grass mission at 530 am sick grassy yellow froth.no blood.had three scrambled eggs after no probs and slept till 730.

he asked for food again now so sweet pot and fish on the hob..only one portions worth this time.

Vet still not replied to tues emails. (Short honest!)do I keep plodding or call vet or go back to vet with him.he only seems to grass purge when he gets hungry and I wondered if acid related? I gave charcoal for the first time last night after the sick.yeo live yog too.

please can someone help me and guide me thru this..I feel so absndoned its untrue.the only real help I have had was as always Be Positive on here(thank you!).shes sure its gut flora needing recovery..this would make sense.

Oh the fish is alaskan white pollock.i am too scared to try anything else as normal potato and quinoa have made him seem to flare up more. Any worries or experience v much appreciated esp things to go armed to vet with....

I need some wonderful hho vibes for Connie please and some nannying thru this..and caffeine!!thank you do much if you've got this far xxx
 
Has he had a poo sample taken? Or bloods? I think you need to get to the bottom of what's causing this.
It could be epi, or something like campylobactor or ecoil etc.
I would go back to feeding a very plain bland diet of scrambled egg and rice or fish and rice.
If your vets not helping change vets!
Something like natural yogurt may also help.
I really would be pushing for some tests.
Good luck.
 
Hi SS..no samples or bloods only the one consult on 1st.

He had a great poo just now tho so thsts promising.

just to clarify he is still only on scrambled eggs..cannot risk rice so sweet potato with white fish..peeled and no skin or bones . both boiled.

I just realised this am as I have been blitzing his food still to baby food..there seemed to be a lot of air in I could hear it fizzing...couldI have been upsetting his gut more by giving baby food?..

Calling vets now if no joy I am jumping ship Thank you x
 
Gsds can have sensitive digestion. Pale mucousy greasy type poos can be a sign of epi as can weight problems.
I would really push for some tests if this is on going.
Hope you get somewhere with the vet.
 
I would be wanting a poo sample to be sent to rule out campylobacter or coccygeal, this is normally a pooled sample over 3 days. Try a bland diet such as chappie original and tree barks powder from dorwest herbs is good to settle funny tummies. Tripe can encourage the gas in the tummie so I would not feed that. Canned pumpkin helps to reduced diarrhoea.
I think you probably need some further veterinary input
Good luck I hope a simple solution is found
 
SS - sorry if I havn't followed your post properly, so you have had one consult with the vet?
I would be going back for a re-check and not faffing around with emailing the vet or messing around with the diet.
Sounds like you need to get to the bottom of this, a second check up with the vet is needed, blood tests and a faecal sample at least, with the possibility of further investigations. If you are not happy with the advise the vet is giving you then maybe go somewhere else for a 2nd opinion.

Good luck xx
 
Yes, you need a Tli blood test, it does sound more then a upset stomach and given his breed it will probably be quicker and cheaper in the long run than messing around with diet and antibiotics etc.
 
You need to go back to the vet.

I would bring a pooled 3 day faecal sample to rule out parasites. Vet will redo clinical exam.
Playing with diet etc will not sort out the issue if he has campylobactor or giardia.
I would put him on a bland food-id or chappie(wet only) and take him back in tbh.

Emailing etc will not be of massive benefit as the vet will need to see the dog again and see has anything changed since the last consult before they are going to prescribe anything.

He may need a course of antibiotics at this stage-your vet will have a better idea after examining him-if vet cannot/will not preform a full exam (for any reason other than temperament -if its a scared/aggressive german Sheperd then I can imagine a full physical may not be possible without sedation) then you might want to try a new vet for a second opinion.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if further diagnostics-bloods faecal sample analysis etc are reqd to get to the bottom of the issue.

Tli blood test would not be a bad idea.....but at 6 he's quite old for a GSD with epi to be first diagnosed and the symptoms dont really match the typical epi case so I wouldnt rush into it.

Good luck either way.l et us know how you get on :)
 
Sorry for going quiet..also for how awful my typos were..not surprised if you havent all got headaches!
Thank you all..Satinbaze, Bellasophia, Ss, Umbungo and Aru.. :-)

Ok..so update. .rang vet..very lucky the lady vet actually answered -she did phone consult on the sat and reissued meds.

Was happy with this am poo and himself spirit wise..but we chatted over all the bits I needed to ask and have collected a big 60g tube of pre&pro biotics with a view to settling continuing over weekend and hopefully the grassy sicks stopping..and no more flare ups of food sick.

so collected paste, gave him the first dose, weighed him and as she suggested fed him at 1pm with freshly cooked cooled sweet potato & white fish (been on this since 1st sept along with scrambled eggs and yeo live yoghurt only) this time it was divided into two portions, each 200g fork mashed immediately before feeding with the hope of his gut having something to do rather than push puree thru.he kept it down so got the second half at half 2.all good so far and had a poo then was asking to play at 345. This poo was not as nice as this mornings..so I do have pics if anyone fancies any..first was orangey brown (sweet potato colour) firmer formed..no blood no mucous.the one since was runnier..had bits of white (undigested egg maybe? Or fish) and gad a greeny brown tinge.took pic..had a good poke with a stick and found a firmer bit inside.it looked a bit grainy on the looser bits and very similar in colour to the paste

vet said see how he goes and then tests if doesn't stop being sick..so hoping the poos sort out ASAP. .

Aru thank you..glad you (&hope still) think not typical epi..I think if next poo not improved I will take samples and chase them to test..the original vet that did his consultation is on call this week..the lady who dealt with anal gland issue and spoke on phone would be my preferred choice on mon.she managed very calmly to do a rectal exam and was brilliant..the man not so keen.Connie will allow most lady vets to handle him all over ..hes not agressive..just not quiet if he senses they are scared..Or if they are male..*so she would be the best bet..but now I am worrying if safe to leave till mon if Giardia or campylobacter...

I have logged everything and pretty much obsessed with poo now since this all began..

am I right to restrict his exercise?

Oh..and I was quite pleased..When I weighed him he was only down .1 despite looking ok with no ribs showing on 1st sept..I was expecting him to be 3kg less so praying it means hes beginning to maintain weight rather than still dropping. .

off for a leg stretch quickly then feeding time again...thank you all..I dont feel as deserted now! x
 
Um..literally took them up the lane fir a leg stretch a lady stopped me to tell me two local walkers dogs have had a virus with sicknesd and diarrhoea and been in vets really ill with it..three dogs..all who walk by my house daily.

in other news..poo2just arrived..better form and colour..more pics..I just don't like that hes now frothy at the mouth a little about a teaspoons worth and dribbly.(clear) I just want him better and back to being my bonkers goofball.hes grazing agsin so best go
 
prob. not relevant but my collie cross aged 9 who is never ill has had similar to your gsd....my vet said there have been alot of dogs in our area (suffolk/essex border)with similar problem and some have tested positive to giardia.... I am feeding chicken or fish and rice and have some metronidazole tablets from vet ....hope you sort yours out soon, by the way I love your version of a short post!!!!!!!
 
If you think the dog has a problem with chicken then drop eggs as well. Also drop the yoghurt now you have the pre and pro biotics, dairy often upsets tummies. Stick to either chappie or sweet potato/pumpkin and fish (try dropping the rice too as it also contains gluten) Stop chopping and changing food, let his stomach enzymes cope with restricted food types for a while then gradually build back to a normal diet.
 
My two gsds have both had projectile water instead of poo today. The little one is slightly better but my older one is still very runny. Luckily they cried to go out in the night! OH has similar, pretty sure it's a bug doing the rounds as both have good appetites.

OH has made much more of a fuss than the dogs.

Hope you get it sorted soon OP.
 
My colleague's two dogs, (1x Golden Retriever, 1x Border Collie) were very ill for 3+ weeks with 'a virus'. Vet saw them both several times but they both lost a lot of weight and poor colleague was worn out cleaning up after them so many times every day.
Fortunately it seems that they have both recovered now and back to normal.
 
Up feeding again..signal shocking so sorry I am quiet for long spellit..

Splashgirl45 Thank you for sharing..I do hope your poor Collie is on the mend very quickly..we're miles ftom you but its seeming quite wide spread..there was a KC dog show literally at the beginning of my lane mid aug..and long shot but only takes a few long distance visitors and it seems no distance at all for it to get anywhere really.

Sad Ken thank you as well..and get well soon to your dogs & OH too..I also have been incredibly lucky..I never begrudge them a nose poke in the night if they can make it outside..he would try remove the key if he thought he could get it thru the hole rather than mess either way indoors..soo house proud for a boy!

Thistle thank you v much too..I will stop yeo & eggs..was wondering that sbiut eggs this am..rice was stopped a week ago (sat) as his wind was toxic and I thought was a trigger..loving the sweet potato tho as pumpkin so expensive...guess what I'm making this halloween for storing!

Pearl..thank you too..get well wishes to your colleagues digs ..and her too..its been quite a hellish almost two weeks..but wouldn't dream of not standing outside if he needs me to even that hour the other morning grazing at 4 am.makes it easier knowing its not just me..sending long sleepy nights too all and their 2leggeds xx
 
The OP has asked me to give a brief update as she has been unable to get online recently, having made great improvements, faecal tests showed nothing, he was eating well and gaining weight, fairly bright today when he went to the vets to be weighed, on his return home he vomited, went off his food refusing to eat, vet said to monitor until Monday unless he went downhill.
He spent all pm being ill, drinking but not eating so was rushed back to the vets, had a check, temp ok, no pain except minor abdo when firmly palpated, he has had something for the vomiting, omeprazole to reduce acidity and has settled down since returning home.

I am surprised they have still run no bloods, yes he will get upset having them taken but I feel that is a minor upset that in the overall scheme of things, he has been unwell for weeks with no diagnosis, he has improved but there have been blips which take their toll on the dog and the OP who is caring for him, the vets seem to think that it is gastric, possibly ulcers.
I have no experience in dog ailments so have little to offer the OP other than support but to my mind running a general blood profile will give a better idea of what is going on, if nothing shows then at least that is another box ticked.
 
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Keep an eye on what he ingests during walks. Some of these white shepherds are very poorly bred and being nervous will always impact on digestion. Did the vet check his anal glands, it's not unheard of for bones from undigested food to get stuck on way out. I wouldn't keep changing food, try him on Burns Sensitive Pork and Potato for a while. Back in the seventies I was prescribed powdered pigs bladder for one of mine. That's GSDs for you, any change of diet will come back swiftly, one end or the other.
 
finally able to get here...so hope it lets me post this time!
thank you Be Positive for updating..&Fellewell..I think mine may be a slow learner as until 31aug he had a very rubust digestive system and no changes ever upset him.anal glands were checked as he had a sudden &agressive abcess 27july..I am wondering if the antibiotics started his tummy sensitivites as I wasnt given or advized pre/pro biotics to go with them..in hindsight I should have thought to.never picks anything up on walks as hes not that kind of dog-never evwn rolled in anything!!(my other little minx more than makes up for that!) anyway..we had a full intestinal blood test done mon 5thafter the weekend of 3rd when he was very ill and collapsed after and all came back fine other than slightly low B12 at 200.had his first injection last wed and three more a week apart.we are now back to three meals a day( FINALLY!!) and weaning him off chappie which he has with boiled turkey and sweet potato..introduced his old favourite raw broccoli over the weekend and will start a new protein after 4days.he will need bloods taken again at week 5 then prob go on to monthly b12 long term from there. I half wonder had I been given the right vet advice re feeding on sept 1st if we would have had the same outcome and if he would have been best not going on two hourly feeds which he struggled to go for so 'long' (2hours)between meals.as he was only on white fish and sweet potato his protein/calories cant gave been right to be getting thru 3.2kgs a day at one point..I wish I had done as my instinct told me at the time not putting him thru puppy feeding..but happy with the two female vets who are now overseeing us.
luckily am allowed to do his injections myself at home. Also pleased that at both the fecal and blood test stages my nice vets didnt find any trace of organ tissue in his poo or blood analysis that would indicate epi..I just wobder if dogs can just suddenly have low b12 with no cause or reason?I now have a delightful ..and very full album on my phone ...of every single poo that has come out of him..day and night raining or not since this started..not obsessed honest but such a good idea..shes entering me for the Turner prize now!:-D
 
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