help please tendons and coffin joint

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cellie

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The vet has been out today and Ollie has had nerve blocks and scans plus xrays.There is 50 % tear of tendon just below the knee and there are also some issues with lameness from coffin joint.The vet has spoken to me about stem cell therapy for the tendon but we will have to wait for xray results until tomorrow for coffin joint.
I understand the stem cell therapy is very expensive ,has anyone had it done? Any advice would be helpful.
I feel really let down as i called the vet out to scan about 7 weeks ago he declined the scan saying Ollie had only tweaked the tendon.After initial rest period hes been out in his field and probably made it worse.
 
Poor Ollie. My understanding is that he should have been on boxrest? Did you discuss this with the vet?

I have no experience of either, but I think Nats_UK does (also known as BouncyMistletoe) - think her horse did something to his coffin joint (he is almost as injury prone as my two!)
 
I've responded to you in the main forum. Am suprised that your vet didn't recommend box rest though, even with a "tweaked" tendon. Don't know anything about the coffin joint injury I'm afraid but I do have recent experience of a tendon injury (unfortunately!). We managed with box rest and tendoneaze (again see my reply in main forum)

Good luck, but it won't heal overnight unfortunately
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Hi Im really angry/disappointed about this.I had vet out to check his leg 8 weeks ago, fortunately he was on restricted turnout at the time and being stabled at night,he said he had tweaked the tendon and no need to scan.Possibly the injury has got much worse .I would have rested him completely if I had known.I insisted on nerve blocks because I felt something else was hindering recovery.
Had call from vet(surgeon who treated his spavin) this pm we are going to treat coffin joint and go with remedial shoeing.The vet has to phone insurance co. to agree treatment on tendon as they dont accept liability and I cant afford without insurance.I hope we can do stem cell treatment as it has good prognosis.Alot of his problems are related to poor feet and this must have played a part in his tendon injury .He hasnt been ridden for months so its nothing that I have done.We have come though so much injury wise ,finding it really hard to keep positive but its better than pts and I know he wont get rehomed as he is a expensive pet to keep.
Will have a look at nats posts thanks
 
If your insurance company doesn't cover the tendon then just to let you know I haven't claimed for Tess's treatment, although all I've had to pay for (so far) are two scans and two visits which has come to about £400 in all, so although its not great to have to fork out that on the run up to Christmas it's not a bank-breaking amount. She also had remedial shoeing but as she is on box rest with only being walked out my farrier shod the two front only so that saved a bit of money. WIll they treat the tendon and the coffin joint problem as one claim?

Good luck with it and let us know how you get on
 
Front feet shoeing is good idea his back feet are good.They are two seperate claims so two excess amounts then 17 1/2 percent after first £700,stem cell is about £2000 .The insurance company have already paid out £7000 worth of claims one was op for spavin which was £3500.They must hate me ringing up.I know e and have bad reputation but in their defence they have paid out every time ,just bit slow. Farrier is going to ring vet to discuss shoeing and vet now has to ring e and l because I want to make sure they accept liability before we go ahead with treatment.
How many weeks are you into treatment bit stressy and cant remember all the details.lol
 
We had stem cell tretment done on one of our show jumpers, he still had to have 18 months rest and recovery, when returnd to top level competition the leg that had the stem cell stood up ok but the tendon on the other leg went as he had been over compensating. It is extreemly expensive I think you have to way up the value of the animal to the treatment and as harsh as it may seem be practicle, if you only want the horse to return to light work let nature take its course on the tendon if I had my time again I wouldnt do it because it still ended in heartache. As for the coffin joint that can be treated with steroids and should be ok. Good Luck
 
Yeah, I remember when you had the vet out to check - you had only been riding him in walk and then he went a bit funny. Cant believe (or can I) that it has taken this long to find the cause.

Have shown Nat this thread and I think she will post - I am sure her horse did something to his coffin joint as well and he is perfectly sound now (I watched her lesson Sunday and believe me the boy can move). It did take a long time though for it to heal properly.

Poor old Ollie - he really has given my boy a run for his money in the lameness stakes.
 
Tess injured herself at the end of July and we're now at the walking out under saddle stage. Not allowed back in field to hoon around yet though and probably not for a while. But we only had the tendon to contend with and not coffin joint as well.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you, I think you need to chat to your vet about the necessity for the stem cell treatment though. Sounds like you could fork out a lot of money and not get a great result. At the end of the day there will always be a weakness in that tendon, stem cell therapy or not. Not to say its not possible for him to return to what he was doing before though, I think it all depends on the horse at the end of the day. What is it you use Ollie for?
 
Can't comment on the tendon injuries I'm afraid as I have yet to experience them (Bane cover your ears
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)

As for coffin joints, my horse went lame with an abscess and then a kick (on returning to the field) beginning of Feb and while on box rest he went lame on the other leg - it turns out he had sprained his coffin joint. All the rest, trotting up, flexion tests, poking and prodding etc had caused it to flair up enough to show up - looking back on his dip in SJ performance the vet and I both think he did it back in Oct/Nov time but it only niggled away at him until Feb.

He had steriod injections in his joint and was on box rest until mid April, I then could walk him and slowly built up work until I was able to go to a showing show end of May. I wasn't able to jump until middle of June though.

He is now fine (touch wood) and it doesn't appear to bother him (as nicely put by CBAnglo
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) - obviously I try to avoid too hard or very boggy ground. I did also put him on Feel Good 30 joint supplement will he was resting as it is was specifically aimed for "stiff or injured" joints.

Hope you get some positive news soon
 
Ollie also had splint from field kick two splints in the end so 16 weeks off for that during the summer.Hes on supplements because he did mild tendon tear last year and ligament year before.I just found out that the coffin joint problems are related to his poor hoof conformation ( he has hoof supplement in top spec comp balancer).The farrier is out tomorrow to put special shoes and pads in as I understand .The vet and farrier have been talking today will find out more tomorrow.
Vets talking to insurance company and then we can go ahead with treatment .I thought he was lou but insurance co want to do more before we get to that stage .He has had diagonal lameness for a while (was scanned and xrayed june /july)which we put down to spavin as he had op in january .I do think this has caused wear andtear on his front legs.Hes had nearly 18 mths off now probably more like 2 years so 6 more months wont make any difference.I feel like a yo yo every time something improves he hits me with another injury I wont even bother telling you the other things hes managed to do.
Our vet likes to do restricted turnout and stabling at night he keeps pretty sensible on this.Thanks for info maybe its related to big ginger beasties is yours a tb At least there sounds like some hope with the joint.
Dont think there will be any jumping again more likely to be hack shame as he has big scoopy jump.
 
Hi Ribena.I can only tell you my intended uses as hes been injured for nearly two years with one thing or another.I bought him as my first horse he was 4 1/2 ex racer thought I was going to be happy hacker but then decided I really loved jumping .We were doing lessons mostly grid work about 3 6 inches he was about 5 at the time and doing really well.We always had a problem in the school he hated it wouldnt work in a good outline and wasnt good going forward.When the spavin came to light it all made sense he just found it to hard in the school.He had a few good flat work lessons but with previous tendon and ligament probs we had to avoid school work until everything had strengthened.
I seem to be getting mixed reactions with the stem cell.Some say it can return tendon to full use and others say its hit and miss.At he end of the day hes already cost me thousands and I can do without the expense.You obviously have some knowledge re therapy but the vet is encouraging me to go for treatment.I have been googling and results sound good but Im open on any info you can pass on.
How big a tear did Tess have Ollies is 50 % which is not good. Mind you he did injury in sept so in reality we are 2 months in.Ill question that with vet there is no inflamation or heat and hasnt been any since end sept.Adequan is the other option for treatment and I will buy tendoneaze.
 
Thanks for info on your friend with coffin joint problems she has contacted me but under new name lol.
Your right about lameness and Ollie they go hand in hand .One good year and 2 lame .Good job hes a nice horse god Ive shed some tears and I never normally cry hard old boot.Dont think theres much with lameness that we havent experienced.Hope this is the end of his troubles.
 
Thanks Frostie .I have been advised that its not all its made out to be .Bearing in mind that he only cost £2300 and Ive already paid out £7000 in vets fees( wont bore you with details)then maybe your right and I should just be patient.Can I ask what sort of tear % wise your horse had Ollies is 50 %
Hes not a show jumper ,I have jumped him in training at 3 6 and he was quite good.Im to old to start competing now. I would have let my daughter compete on him now she is older that was always the intention anyway.I would have liked to do xc and local shows but nothing major. I have just bought her a horse so she can compete and do pc.At least she isnt being held back.
Sounds like I need to have a good chat with the vet before we make any major decisions.I really think his tendon problems are related to his feet and collapsed heels.If I can improve this with remedial shoeing then that will relieve tendon pressure.He had 10 % tear in his tendon on other leg last summer so will have to be careful .Its so hard knowing what to do did you have adequan injections with new tendon tear.
 
Tess is a 6yr old ex-racer, I think it really puts strain on their tendons. I'm not sure how bad hr tear was, we didn't scan it for a few weeks as I'd only just bought her than there was a chance they were going to swap her for me (didn't take them up on it in the end- better the devil you know and all that!) All I know is it was the SDFT and when we did scan it had already started to heal (the lesion looked like like somebody had smudged a hole in the middle of the tendon). Her leg was very swollen and there was a fair amount of heat in it for a week or two, but it went after that and there has never been any lameness there.

I really wish you the best of luck and I hope you make the right decision. You've clearly done the research so go with your instincts and do what's best for him. He should be able to return to happy hacking no problem, it's the jumping that might be an issue, just depends how high and how fast cos of the stress on the tendon. But some horses do recover, even racehorses that are flat out galloping and jumping so it can happen.

You say he had previous tendon problems. What were they? Are you sure your insurers won't exclude him for tendon injuries now?
 
No, not a TB but just as accident prone as one
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Sounds like you have been through the wars with him. Will keep fingers crossed you receive some positive news soon
 
Hi ribena farriers been out today the vet asked him to use heart bar or egg bar shoes with gel pads.Ollie has new shoes on the front but Ive left him barefoot at the back as his rear feet are good.
Re your question about exclusions he has exclusion on back legs fortunately not front.He had curb ligament tear 2 years ago the tendon was front leg but only 10 % and healed completely.I dont think the farrier holds out much hope but is just complying with vets wishes thats the impression he gave me.He doesnt feel that he will ever be sound with his hoof conformation.We tried natural balance during the summer and although they helped he wasnt keen on leaving them on indefinitely.
If he is going to be in constant discomfort and is running the risk of reinjury in his field I might have to make a heartbreaking decision.Poor boys been in restricted field rest on and off for 18 months .Hes not really having good quality of life.I contacted his trainer and he said he was always lame as a 2 to 3 year old .
Fingers crossed with the shoeing then Ill have to make a decision on treatment for tendon.Perhaps the vet will come out and check his feet before we decide on what to do about stem cell or shock wave therapy.
 
Hi Cellie, you asked the extent of mines tendon injury, it was very bad he rupterd the DDFT, the other thing with stem cell I was told by Rossdales it has to be done as soon after the injury as poss you are quite a few weeks down the line, I have developed a deep mistrust for a lot of vets over the years I think they tell you what they think you want to hear then fleece you for your money. Although this wasnt the case with Newmarket they were very honest and said his chances of returning to top flight were slim, although like I said before it was the other leg that gave out.
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Hi Cellie, you asked the extent of mines tendon injury, it was very bad he rupterd the DDFT, the other thing with stem cell I was told by Rossdales it has to be done as soon after the injury as poss you are quite a few weeks down the line, I have developed a deep mistrust for a lot of vets over the years I think they tell you what they think you want to hear then fleece you for your money. Although this wasnt the case with Newmarket they were very honest and said his chances of returning to top flight were slim, although like I said before it was the other leg that gave out.
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Im glad you told me that ,as he appears to have torn the tendon earlier I will question stem cells ability to repair it.Trying to keep him in restricted turnout at the moment but he seems to be comfortable in his new very expensive shoes and keeps busting out of paddock.Hes been restricted on and off for 18 mths with previous injuries and is probably miffed off with it all.I know its the wrong thing to do but I feel like chucking him out and taking the risk.Hes had such a miserable time with injuries I want to just let him be a horse and enjoy his space.
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Ill give the vet a good grilling at the end of the week and see if the insurance co. are willing to accept any liability.thansk for your help
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Just to add mine is now chucked out as we have given up hope of him returning to jumping, he is out all the time galloping round in the mud having a gr8 time and looks completely sound! I think you should let yours be a horse and go out the way to look at it is what will be will. you as the owner have done the best you can. I do sympathize having got the t shirt
 
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Just to add mine is now chucked out as we have given up hope of him returning to jumping, he is out all the time galloping round in the mud having a gr8 time and looks completely sound! I think you should let yours be a horse and go out the way to look at it is what will be will. you as the owner have done the best you can. I do sympathize having got the t shirt

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If I could guarantee he wouldnt break the last few strands of tendon he has left then Ill go the same way as you .I have to try a bit longer with restricted paddocks before I break down completely.He always does his injuries in the field not sure if that makes me feel better or not.Ill settle for a hack lol we have a jumping horse for my daughter .
 
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