Help please- walk pirouettes

[millitiger]

We're now looking to consolidate at Medium and looking towards training in higher.
As part of this, I'm really trying to nail the basics- square halts every time, movements exactly at the markers, positioning and better balance being more 'there' than having to work for it, if that makes sense?

So walk pirouettes...
Sometimes we get a 4-5 and sometimes we get a 7-7.5.
The problem is, I'm not sure I can feel the difference between these!

We had a mini break through in our lesson yesterday, when my trainer asked me to half pass on a 3m circle: this helped to get the right vision in my brain and improved my feeling but my brain hurt!
Does anyone else have any other tips or tricks they could share please?

Thanks all

 

[lizziebell]

Walk pirouettes are the work of the devil !! They are also not the easiest to judge either, as its really hard to judge the regularity of a four-beat walk through a pirouette.

Both HP and SI into the walk piri is really useful (I particularly like squares - so SI the sides and quarter piri the corners) I tend to work more on quarter piris and only occasionally add in a half piri in training as it’s so easy to get stuck and hung up about them (or is for me anyway).

Sorry - no real tips, but looking forward to others suggestions.

 

[shortstuff99]

If you have access to Burghley TV Carl Hester does a really good demo on the walk piris and how to get better marks

 

[Skib]

I have a long Word document of notes from my lessons on how to ride a walk demi pirouette. What these notes seem to show is that though one thinks of it as a halt, one needs an active walk into the pirouette, with contact. The impulsion needs to be maintained in the turn but so does the contact with ones back.
I spent several years learning these things, on a lesson horse kept supple by the lessons she gave. The horse I ride now is a hacker with little bend and I would hesitate before asking this of her in the school. or need to ask the YM.

I realise after posting that one doesnt need bend but one does need the hind legs to cross.

 

[shortstuff99]

I have a long Word document of notes from my lessons on how to ride a walk demi pirouette. What these notes seem to show is that though one thinks of it as a halt, one needs an active walk into the pirouette, with contact. The impulsion needs to be maintained in the turn but so does the contact with ones back.
I spent several years learning these things, on a lesson horse kept supple by the lessons she gave. The horse I ride now is a hacker with little bend and I would hesitate before asking this of her in the school. or need to ask the YM.

I realise after posting that one doesnt need bend but one does need the hind legs to cross.

No hind legs shouldn't cross in a piri the inside hind should go up and down on the spot and the hind leg move around it.

 

[tristars]

Walk forwards in a feeling mouth contact, then put weight into inside stirrup, ask for slight looky in direction of travel, use outside rein against neck, and ride with the seat into the piri, at the same time as still getting the forward feeling sensation, that is your impulsion, guide with the bit, but don't pull back, use your outside leg to push against the horses side in direction of travel

Feel When the horse marks the movement with the hind legs and does not just swivel


It one the first things we teach the babies

 

[silv]

Walk forwards in a feeling mouth contact, then put weight into inside stirrup, ask for slight looky in direction of travel, use outside rein against neck, and ride with the seat into the piri, at the same time as still getting the forward feeling sensation, that is your impulsion, guide with the bit, but don't pull back, use your outside leg to push against the horses side in direction of travel

Feel When the horse marks the movement with the hind legs and does not just swivel


It one the first things we teach the babies

Good advice. I tend to think of them as the movement from hell, some judges admit to finding them difficult to mark too.
My trainer used to tell me to think of haunches in on an 8 meter circle.

 

[spookypony]

For a prep exercise for walk piris, I think of a 1/4 piri as a two-stride corner (corner with travers) instead of a three-stride corner, and like to ride 20m squares where I alternate 3-stride corners (towards the wall) and 2-stride corners (away from the wall). One can then make the square smaller (e.g. 10m) and ride it from quarter line to quarter line instead of the whole width, and put 1/4 piri at each corner. Eventually, one can combine two 1/4s for 1/2.

As with travers and other related movements, a common problem is the outside hind swinging wide, so I guard it with the outside calf if I feel that about to happen. I often video exercises like this, so I can see if my impressions are correct.

It sounds like what your trainer was asking you to do is a passade, or travers on a small volte, which is a logical preparation for pirouette. As the volte gets smaller and the number of strides decreases, you finally end up with a pirouette. So if that helped, then yay!

I find lateral movements get a lot simpler if I think of them all as variations on travers. Fundamentally, the movement is the same ("butt in"), but the line along which I'm riding is different (along the wall, along the diagonal, along a circle). Even for renvers, I just imagine riding travers along the inside track. What I had a hard time with was getting travers in the first place; for some reason, I couldn't wrap my head around how to explain it to the horse. Turns out she's smarter than I am sometimes...

 

[Skib]

No hind legs shouldn't cross in a piri the inside hind should go up and down on the spot and the hind leg move around it.

That makes sense, but it isnt what I wrote in my lesson notes.

And what is the difference between that and a turn on the haunches?

 

[spookypony]

That makes sense, but it isnt what I wrote in my lesson notes.

And what is the difference between that and a turn on the haunches?

French! Seriously, though, the ToH can be bigger, is my understanding.

 

[tristars]

I find always thinking about going forwards into the movement helps, the babies do the turn on the haunches pretty early, sometimes quite big and go around till it's not good, then walk forwards and pick it up again , sometimes it varies into a piri but I try to keep it large to start

That quarter piri thing feels a lot more together, collected but still stepping forwards into it is needed

 

[millitiger]

Thanks all, some useful tips and thinking points there!
I will be practising tomorrow- it is definitely harder at home, alone, to link up what looks right and how that feels.

I struggle with keeping the bend through the ribs at the moment.
And if I do keep the bend then he tends to step out behind... Which I think shows that actually rather than bending, he is opening his outside shoulder.
It's tough!!

 

[nikkimariet]

I have to think of riding them as 2 x quarters

 

[spookypony]

I was thinking about this question today while riding. The false bend problem happens to us very easily, especially on the hollow rein, so today, I rode (in walk) alternating shoulder-in and travers along the long side, just 4 strides or so of each before briefly straightening and switching. The weight transfers between outside and inside hind leg and the shoulder turning seemed to help with the escaping shoulder problem. The Ballerina Mare is quite fat and unfit at the moment, and is anyway very good at wiggling out of any situation that seems like hard work, so hopefully, this will help get her belly a bit more involved in matters...

 

[Muddywellies]

From my recent experience, judges judge these very differently. My trainer who is a list 1 judge trains them a certain way. I was judged recently by a list 3 judge who ripped my piris to pieces. I was happy they were ridden as I am taught and have it on video.