Help - pony now constantly pulling head down in trot

book_lover

book_lover

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Hello,

thanks so much for all who posted last week to my thread re. new loan pony who was putting in mini-bucks as an obstinacy about work with my (nearly 9 y o) daughter. He is a week into his new home, on all grass livery and seems very happy otherwise. He's so loving, gentle enough on the ground, and he just seems to be trying to get out of work as he's been out of work for 6 months (back/saddle/teeth all check out fine). I've since spoken to an ex loaner of him, who said he is the most amazing pony ever, we have found the best pony, he will teach my daughter so much etc. Photos of him at shows, getting ribbons... but he is known for this behaviour at first.

Update - he is now not doing nearly as much bucking, but is pulling the reins away and head down as a way of getting out of trotting. We have worked, worked, worked him and tried to work through it - at one point it seemed L had got the hang of getting the reins up before he got his head down far. I'm trying to encourage her to drive him forward while regaining the reins. But today seemed to be a step back - over an hour of him just pulling the reins away, doing it repeatedly so she couldn't get them back properly before it happened again. Tried running round with her, (he's better then), stepping back and letting her deal with it.... but today she was just getting fed up - I want her to be able to progress. He broke (unasked) into a little canter and he seems to have a lovely gait - but daughter doesn't feel ready yet. Want this cracked before hacking him out. We finished with a really lovely trot for almost twice round the school without him putting his head down - but I think he knows what we want, and had got tired and wanted back to the field!! It took a loooong time to get there (and I'm stubborn and won't end on a bad note in the school for them).

So - any ideas? He does seem ever so strong. I know her arms are tired by the end of it. I'm obstinate, and I won't give up. We'll get there in the end. Considering grazing reins or a daisy rein just to give her a break and let her have a chance to enjoy it. Recommended by our local store (side reins could adjust so they are gradually not necessary). I know it's not their original purpose, or not ideal, but we just need a short-term break from this so she can start to enjoy riding her pony a bit more. As I said, cracking pony once he gets his head round work and I'm sure he wouldn't need to do this for long. As 5 foot 6, and 12 stone (not for long if I keep spending an hour plus running round a school), I don't feel it's fair for me to get on his back and school him.

thanks :)
 
Is there any chance your daughter is using the reins to balance? Can you tie a knot in the reins and lead her at a trot and see if he still does it? When you are 100% certain that she's not interfering with his mouth you could try the side reins.
 
thanks Jemima, will certainly check. She's been riding 3 years and has a good seat, good hands usually and never had this problem before (riding school ponies but also a friend's pony). There's no chance of a loose rein on this one, he would just take advantage! Will try what you suggest, thank you.
 
If he is pulling down very sharply, ie yanking the reins out of your daughters hands, it would be snatching - snatching the reins off her. Its a very cheeky pony maneuver! ( thats ofc since you have ruled out pain)

If he were leaning, ie just heavily hanging on your daughters hands, as if she is holding the whole weight of his head - its leaning and is a schooling thing for both him and her.

If he snatches at the reins he has to get a firm no from your daughter, and her not to give with the reins, take more of a feel at that very second. Currently he is realising that snatching is meaning she will release the contact, and he gets what he wants. He has to realise that he wont get what he wants when he snatches. If she is just not strong enough yet to work with this - then a daisy rein may help with the initial time of him realising that snatching is not on. Grass reins or side reins wont work as they can still snatch in them- just not all the way to the ground.

Before you do that though, best to see if there is any other reason why he is snatching. If you have ruled out all pain, and everything fits, see if he would be more comfortable in a different bit or nose band ( what is he in currently?). Then get a really good instructor to watch your daughter ride him and see if she is causing him to object in this way for some reason.

Good luck!
 
Hello

I am following your post with interest as we have a similar problem with our 11.2hh Sec A. My daughter is 6, has been riding 18 months and like your daughter she is simply not strong enough to stop her pony putting her head down. Unlike your situation however, our pony is not a serial snatcher, neither is she overly bolshy but of course it still un-nerves my daughter when it happens. I've been using a daisy rein and it has worked really well for us.

I hope you find a solution that works your daughter and pony and look forward to an update.

:)
 
That's brilliant thank you. He's currently in a simple noseband and a snaffle. I had wondered about a flash but whether that would actually help with the pulling? What kid of bit would you suggest? Don't want to go too harsh for same reason as had concerns about side/daisy reins - ie the underlying behaviour. Yes we want to get the local instructor to come along at the beginning of next month. Out of sheer frustration I did try some bailing twine from headband to d rings today and despite girth being as tight as I felt happy with, his pulling against it seemed to pull the saddle forward. I took it off pretty quickly but perhaps a proper one wouldn't have this issue.
 
Ps he did eventually gO beautifully but not until an hour and a half had passed - he was probably very tired. We can't ride for that long every time in order to end in a good note though. Worth mentioning that he apparently hates the wind, and it was quite whistly but where we are is exposed and windy and he will have to get used to that. It
May have explained things a but but this wasn't a one off.
 
Hello Havannah and thankyou! Really pleased to hear the daisy rein is working for your daughter, makes me feel more encouraged. It's so frustrating isn't it!
 
Hugely...who'd be a pony mum? It's so much easier when you can get on yourself. Like you I tried bailing twine to d-rings before investing in the daisy rein. We will undoubtedly look back in a few years when they are bombing around a cross country course or flying over huge showjumps and wonder why we ever worried about cheeky ponies with attitude! :)
 
ugh, just lost a reply.

Hippona, yeah by someone fairly experienced in the yard, but not by a saddler. We're quite a way out in the sticks and I'm sort of worried a saddler would want a sale, whether necessary or not. Maybe I'm being too cynical! Is there any way for me to be doubly sure? It seems spacious underneath and not pinching.

Havvanah that would be nice! Can I ask what didn't work with the bailing twine? With us it seemed to pull the saddle forward.... hoping the daisy rein would be better!
 
Ponies - you solve one problem and they come up with another !
We have two Sec A's that over the years have tested my daughter and niece with an arsenal of various tricks and cunning plans. Perfect leading rein ponies and now the girls are much older they can ride them easily and are much better riders for it!
However, trying to stay one step ahead is not always easy. A daisy rein may be a solution although its not something I have tried. The first thing I teach any young rider is a 'One rein stop'. It has to be an immediate reaction to a horse that either bucks, snatches the reins, naps to the gate or tries to take off.
Have a martingale stop on the reins close to the bit. Ensure your daughter is wearing gloves. Start teaching it at a slow walk by having your daughter reach forward and take hold of the inside rein between the bit and the martingale stop. Then pull the ponies head round to her knee and make the pony stand for a moment. Keep practising so the pony becomes used to what your daughter is asking it to do. With the ponies head brought round to the knee your daughter has control. Pulling on two reins will never work! It takes practice but I think it is imperative that all children are taught this.
Adding flash/drop nosebands, a stronger bit etc is not going to work. You have to build your daughters confidence slowly, keeping her safe but enabling her to take control of the situation. The pony will soon learn that its naughty behaviour will be dealt with swiftly.
I suggest that you also look at a bit that will enable a 'one rein stop' safely without pulling the rings through the ponies mouth. Either a full cheek or tom thumb snaffle or french link.
Pain, discomfort etc must obviously be ruled out first.
Keep the first few sessions short and slow then build up from there.
 
thanks Cambrica. I will work with her to learn this. Would the pony not just keep going but turning into the middle of the school though? (another of his tricks is to veer into middle of school actually, that reminded me!). So the idea is that he will get fed up of trying and having this response? Other things I've read online about snatching of reins (or bucking) is to keep pushing them on because if they get to stop, they get what they wanted? Which approach is best given it's about getting him to trot, and he doesn't do this in the walk?

Dismayed listening through the windows at the howling wind. He clearly has a problem with it, and if we don't get to work him tomorrow I'm then away for the whole week. I worry that whatever we achieve one day will be lost if there's a big gap.

I think you're right - he's had at least 3 little people to learn from and hence build up his "arsenal of tricks"!!! He's a dartmoor btw - although not sure if that is or isn't relevant! (and he's 10).

I must be honest and say that I don't feel I have enough experience to start fiddling around with tack I don't know - unless an instructor were to recommend it. I'd rather build his trust than enforce it (hence my reluctance regarding the daisy rein but my daughter needs a break).
 
I should say that my daughter is a little apprehensive about using much leg, as she feels pony may buck (as was very frequent in first two or three days). Pony responds well to voice but I feel she needs to be able to use leg and should not fear doing so.
 
Yes pushing them on in theory would be better but I then have visions of your daughter picking up speed and still not having control so if its not working then move from Plan A to Plan B.
The pony is not getting its own way by pulling one rein round, its being stopped from doing what it wants to do, evading the rider. It puts your daughter back in control and as soon as he realises that he cannot pull the reins away your daughter can then build on that confidence by pushing him on more knowing that at any time she has the ability to make him stop.
I'm not sure what bit you have but a full cheek snaffle is a bit I use on my youngster. It aids with steering and being a snaffle is still a very mild bit.
 
this makes sense, thanks Cambrica. He's in a standard snaffle (forgive me - is that eggbutt? just plain old round rings...). Yes he's getting his own way because she's lost the reins and is struggling to get them back (she can't do it as quickly as I'd like her to - poor lass had to point out to me that I was getting frustrated with HER too, today!) so yes, I think this would work - but as the problem is in trot only (he's a lazy boy!) then she'll have to do it in trot.... he's fine in walk you see. For obvious reasons no cantering has been tried yet (my poor girl, so excited about jumping, and hacking out - now she sees the reality of not having a perfect push button pony!).
 
It will work in trot of course but she needs to learn it in walk and feel confident in 'executing' it quickly ;) and the pony needs to learn what it is being asked to do. Then progress to trot.
Its is something that my kids learnt from a very young age. I know that if one of their ponies tried to tank off or try and throw a few bucks that they can immediately stop the pony in its tracks, especially now they are doing a lot more road work.
Your pony will soon learn that it cannot snatch the reins and start to behave but your daughter has to show him she means business albeit in a calm and quietly confident way ;)
 
Definitely get the saddle checked by a saddler. One of our ponies put in the most awful stops when jumping because the points of the tree were digging in behind his shoulders poor lad. Took a good saddler to spot the issue.

Once saddle checked, if he's still doing it, a daisy rein will help support your daughter by not allowing the behaviour. As she gets more confident with him ou should be able to then take it away.
 
Is he bit enough for you to get on - this is a habit lots of ponies have cos they know the child can't hold on. The fastest way to stop it in my experience is to get an older child to ride it or get on yourself or alternatively a short term use of a grass rein can help...
 
book_lover said:
ugh, just lost a reply.

Hippona, yeah by someone fairly experienced in the yard, but not by a saddler. We're quite a way out in the sticks and I'm sort of worried a saddler would want a sale, whether necessary or not. Maybe I'm being too cynical! Is there any way for me to be doubly sure? It seems spacious underneath and not pinching.

Havvanah that would be nice! Can I ask what didn't work with the bailing twine? With us it seemed to pull the saddle forward.... hoping the daisy rein would be better!
Click to expand...

Hi.... Mine too was wide enough, but the points were too long for him.
What saddle is yours in?
 
Hiya, I feel your pain !!.
I bought a shettie cross for my kids when they were younger . She is a little toad at times. She will, given the chance , snatch the reins and put her head to the floor . If you smack her she bucks etc. She has attitude. I used to put grass reins on her so the kids didnt get bored . As they grew in confidence we were able to dispense with them . We used to use a crupper aswell otherwise she would just pull the saddle up her neck . She wasnt in pain she just knew every trick in the book . I think she even made up a few special ones of her own :).
It just took time for the kids to get quicker with their reactions and to see what was coming first. She taught them a heck of a lot , their dressage instructor used to laugh and say she certainly taught your kids to sit up .
We still have the little monkey , she is 21 now, she is perfect on the lead rein and I drive her aswell.
It is still early days so I would get the saddle checked and then go for side reins , your daughter deserves to have some fun aswell doesnt she . In time when he has settled and she has got her confidence with him then you can start dealing with these hiccups .
If you have an older child around who could pop on him now and then it would help.
I hope things improve
 
hi MrsMozart and thank you. I will investigate our most local one. Hippona, forgive my ignorance - it's a leather saddle, typical pony saddle. Just looks like this but I'm sure there are subtle differences in type I'm not aware of: http://www.crewesaddlery.co.uk/black-country-gpd

blitznbobs, I'd assumed I was too big - he's 13.1hh (but a chunky Dartmoor), I'm 5ft 6, and more over 12 stone than I care to know about on the scales. Maybe last year before I ditched my diet it would have been ok - what do you think??

Maree, yes I think a crupper will be necessary, he just kept pulling til I noticed the saddle had been pulled!

Some people think side reins - others the daisy rein? I'm leaning more towards daisy rein as it's designed more for this (albeit in terms of them putting head down for grass, although this is happening in a grass free school!).

Just willing the wind to die down now - am sure he performed worse yesterday as he clearly doesn't like it. And I'm going away for a whole week. She can ride when with my hubby through the week, but he is less knowledgeable than me, and I worry he'll do it differently. I know he's not prepared to run round with them for example! So she may ride this afternoon but wind dependent.
 
If he's been out of work for 6 months should he even be trotting? He needs to be built up gradually starting with 5/6 weeks of just walk work first.
 
Hi 3Beasties, this is interesting thank you. There must be a range of feeling on this, as this is not the advice we have received. Indeed, we're deferring to the owner (he's a loan pony) on first steps.
 
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