Help - problems with grazing licensee

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Ceriann

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My husband and I bought a house 6 weeks ago with 4 acres across the road - I have two horses currently in full livery and they are the main reason we bought the place (so we can have them home with us).

The sellers had a licensee on the 4 acres with horses (written grazing agreement in place). As we have stuff to do to the house eg stables we decided to keep the licensee for a while longer but notice was give under the licence she had (which she accepted) and we got her onto a new licence with us. We made some key changes in that we limited her to 2 horses (the rent is cheap and the licensee didn't appear to us to look after the land that well eg poor management, pony kept in shed with bedding thrown in field etc) and allowed ourselves the ability to put our horses in there too if needed. When we met with her to sign the licence she queried the number of horses in the licence as she already had 3 on there (she owns 2 and had let a friend add hers!) - as she explained this was temporary only we agreed to the third (on the understanding it was short term). She then signed the licence.

A week or so later we received an email referring to the licence and asking how set in stone the number of horses was as she had another friend that wanted to graze there. The field is a mud pit and on the basis the third horse hadn't gone we refused. She apologised for asking and said it was difficult to know how we planned to work things. As a result we decided to be very upfront and state that we would be looking to move our horses there in Spring (we had always been 100% upfront about this anyway) and that we didn't see how we could have 4 plus horses on the 4 acres and as such couldn't guarantee they could stay post that and that we would understand if she wanted to start looking ASAP. She was fine about this and seemed to accept the situation.

Couple of weeks ago I went to look at the field and there were 4 horses on the land - she had added a 4th without consent. We range her immediately and she said she'd bought herself a new one and that the horse she was keeping for a friend would be gone ASAP. We made clear we weren't happy and asked that she get down to 3 ASAP. 10 days later we had heard nothing and 4 horses still in the field. We asked for an explanation and we get a very off hand response about not having transport and it would get sorted. On the basis she has no regard for the terms of her licence and/or us we gave her a further day to sort the 4th horse or we would give her written notice to leave. Nothing happened so we have given her notice - whilst the licence states only a month is needed we have given her until the end of Jan 2013 as we appreciate finding somewhere now isn't easy.

She has responded stating she will leave when she feels like, probably Spring and we should consider her a sitting tenant! We have served notice and she has acknowledged she's got it. We've pointed out that she signed licence, it entitles us to give a months notice and she has acknowledged in lots of emails which we have kept that she is bound by the contract.

My husband and I are very stressed about this and our dream of moving our horses is turning into a nightmare - I pay 800 a month to keep mine in livery and have enough set aside until March for this.

If come 31 Jan she refuses to go what do we do?! Practically the field is over the road to us whereas she lives 4 miles away - she visits once a day maybe. I just want her gone and no aggravation but I suspect she won't go quietly. I don't want to do anything that will affect her horses but neither do I want to take back in Spring a field that is ruined because the 4 horses she has there will have churned it up and have to spend months tidying it up!

Sorry for the long email!
 
I'd tell her that as of 1st Feb the gate will be locked and you plan to start knocking down the shelter and spraying the land with fertiliser

If her horses are in the field at that point they will be locked in and may be affected by the works
 
You are going to have to be tough. I would suggest removing the gate at a certain date, but I suppose she could just erect a temporary fence. But you could threaten - or that you will turn the horses loose and lock the gate afterwards. I know it isn't nice and you don't want to harm the horses in anyway - or be responsible for an accident, but you have to let her know that you mean business.
 
Our solicitor reviewed the old licence and said it was ok subject to some tweaks eg we specifically allowed our horses to go on to make clear this is a licence and not a tenancy, and they told us to enforce things and keep on top of them because if you leave them to it you risk it becoming a tenancy.

We haven't asked the solicitors re this yet as we hope she'll accept she as to go - end of day I would if I had to travel 4 miles to get to a field I've been given notice to leave.

The suggestion re spraying is a good one - we wouldn't do it but we could always get the kit ready to.

We've also considered chaining the gate and/or blocking access (there is a small parking area not covered by the licence in front of the gateway). We are keen to avoid confrontation though!

I'll call BHs too.
 
We haven't asked the solicitors re this yet as we hope she'll accept she as to go - end of day I would if I had to travel 4 miles to get to a field I've been given notice to leave.
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I would involve your solicitor sooner rather than later, because it can take months to evict someone. And if you intend to use the land from the Spring onwards, then you want the horses off ASAP in order to rest and treat the field.
 
But surely if the OP removes a gate or let's the horses loose then if they cause an accident it will be OP's responsibility? This doesn't sound like its going to be straightforward I'm afraid :( get a solicitor ASAP, keep copies of all communication and don't engage in phone calls or face to face discussion about it as you want everything that has been said by both of you to be kept logged.
 
Thanks - with a licence I think you can take steps to take possession yourself (I spoke with a friend who is a sol just now), including sticking them on a lorry and sending them to hers. I will get a property/land sol involved though!
 
Must admit, I'm surprised you renewed, as the horses will do a fair bit of damage over the winter, as from the sounds of it it has been rather over grazed, and not very well maintained.
I would put in writing to them that you intend to put a maintainance plan in place as of then a date which suits you, and that you expect the horses to be gone by then.
I recently had to move mine after several years due to the death of the farmer, and things getting rather odd with the people who will, post probate inherit. They made us feel very uncomfortable and we moved. Maybe you could start hanging around, doing things, and taking down the shelter if it doesn't fit into your long term plans. Tbh 4 miles from where she lives is very close, which may have something to do with it, mine are now closer to home than they were, and they are 6 miles away.
 
If you think she will care about them enough to move them if you spray with weedkiller you could always spray with water (she will absolutely not know what's in the sprayer tank).

If you write to her and say you are spraying on 1st Feb at 10am, get all the stuff ready and even go in and start spraying - you will know that absolutely no harm will come to the horses at all but she will know any (if she cares about them) will take them out sharpish!)

Sad that you have to sink to such low measures but if you want to use from March you'll need as much time as you can to get the land ready.
 
Our sellers cocked up really and didn't give them enough notice to get them out. When we looked at the house and fields they only had 1 horse and 1 small pony (hence the 2 horse restriction) so didn't seem that big a deal and its 4 acres. But we are now dealing with 4 horses (two of which are heavy native types) and the throwing of bedding into the field is a new thing (as is using the shed for stabling of the pony We have 2.5 acres at the front of the house which we can (it just needs fencing off in the NY) so if we have to wait to get on the 4 acres that's ok.

Ive just spoken to a solicitor and as its a licence (he's looking at it now just to be sure but as we got a sol to do this at the time I'm confident of this) we can apparently take action to take possession, including removing the horses ourselves. We can also change locks etc and if they tamper with them it's criminal damage! Good to know.

Letter on its way to explain this ASAP!
 
Thanks everyone - some really good sugg. I like the idea of the field plan and putting this into action on the 1st feb, including "watering" the fields and taking down the shed!
 
There's an old saying, you don't keep a dog and bark yourself. You've got a solicitor so leave it to him. If the licensee wants to discuss things just say it is in the hands of your solicitors and you don't want to discuss it.

Of course, we haven't seen the agreement but a licence is usually an agreement that can be cancelled at any time by either side, subject to any specific clauses in that agreement to the contrary.

Personally, I would not take any other action, especially things like turning horses loose on the road, ripping down shelters, etc. and just let the solicitor do his job. If the licensee starts to be difficult, inform the police so it is at last on record. You can bet your life that the licensee has relatives in all the key positions with local government,etc. and country people are quite good at making things hot for an incomer!:eek:
 
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