Help! Rant on schooling

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express_75

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My (experienced) friend came over today to school my almost 5yr old mare. She was in a happy mouth, loose ring revolver at the start of the session but her head shaking was quite bad and was then put in a happy mouth pelham with two reins, head shaking was still there but not as bad, then she had head strapped down and worked for around 40mins like that.
She's my first horse and very green but we're having lessons and im sure we'll get there; i wouldn't feel happy riding her like that. She's not strong in the school but very strong minded (Welsh D) and im sure the head shaking is her being stroppy and trying to get out of working. I've had her teeth checked and the next step is the back.

She finds it hard to bend, turns her head in the opposite direction of the 20m circle on one rein.
When she stops the head tossing she looks lovely.

I've been told to ride her like that (above) in the school and even hack out that way?! She's lovely to ride out and i dont get any nonsense with her head...so i won't be hacking out strapped up.

Do i school her this way? Is it right? What do i do about her head? HELP! Im in a pickle and want to do the right this for my lovely mare.
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Thanks for reading, hope you guys can help.
x
 
personally i wouldn't ride her this way.....how much schooling has she done?? can you do some on hacks??
i have a welsh d, he is 5 and also tosses his head around and "curls" his neck and leans on the right rein, i had lessons and instructor had him working long and low, lifting his back and swinging through, and hey presto, as he became stronger and more balanced the head tossing diminished, and he started looking for the contact.....
 
She hadn't done much schooling, i've only had her 5 months and we've been taking it slowly. I've had two lessons on her and was told to ignore the head tossing and consentrate on her balance etc, she did settle in the end. I really don't want her in gadgets at such a young age, it seems harsh.

Do you think it's to do with the breed? Inexperience also, but that will come.

Sounds exactly what my mare is doing in the school!

You're sig pic is very similar to my mare!! Nebo lines...
 
No I wouldn't ride her that way.
If she's head shaking she's either got a physical problem or is attempting to show you she is uncomfortable.
What does she do when lunged loose then in side reins? does the head shaking go?
I am sorry but you need someone far more experienced and knowledgeable than your friend, sticking her in a pelham is not the way to sort her problems, especially as she is so young.
Look under the information for trainers and instructors such as BE accredited or bsja trainers, they will know what the problem is and they mostly are happy to help novices not just competition riders.
I've had quite a few section D's and to be honest, apart from one mare all were desperate to please when ridden. There could be loads of reasons from mites in her ears, your browband being too tight even her saddle pinching.. get some expert help!
 
Hmmm... people have different ideas about what's 'right', but it sounds to me you're already having serious doubts about the advice you've been given. Stay like this, as someone who readily admits to being inexperienced you'll have lots of 'experts' offering advice. You don't always have to follow it. Always get more than one opinion and then make your mind up. From what you've said here it sounds like your friend has applied entirely the wrong approach to your problem. Lots of horses headshake, it might be worth you looking into different methods of dealing with it in books and on the net. Good luck - and don't assume that just because someone is more experienced than you, they necessarily know what's best.
 
Thank for your replies.

I may be a new horse owner but even i know what's been done today isn't good.

When she's lunged in a caveson (with no bridle) there isn't any head tossing so it could be the bit?? I've got a happy mouth for her and its very mild. I don't think she likes the contact and when i've schooled her i start on a very loose rein and gradually take it in but everything went tits up today!
 
I think a lot of Welsh Ds really resent being strapped down. If you watch them move in the field, their head carriage is often quite high, nostrils aloft. I found the best way to get Saffron more through was just to work and work and work on transitions. The more engaged she became behind, the softer she came in front. I did try to "cheat" at one point ages ago and used a pessoa..but she just developed a really stiff neck even with very brief use and the back lady had to sort her out. Now I just do those transitions from walk to canter and halt to canter and lots of circles and loops and she gets softer and more pliant every time. Your baby shdn't be made to do too much...but you can flex her neck while on a hack and just work on changes within each pace...lengthening and shortening stride , making sure she is always coming off the leg and softening your hand when she does. Good luck!
 
mine hated the happy mouth!! put him in a hanging cheek french link which he accepts much better, what sort of head tossing is it?? the headshaking, irritated sort or flicking the whole neck up and down?? you see how my lad is built, he has a huge neck, and will chuck his head around until he is comfy in his neck, then i can pick him up a bit and ask a bit more, they do tire quickly at that age, and TBH 15 mins just stretching the muscles and getting some quiet relaxed work would be far more beneficial to her at this stage, than shoving her in a pelham strapping her mouth shut and forcing her to work for 40 mins......she will sour quickly. i would be inclined to hack 1st then have a short schooling session afterwards.
 
no, your instincts are absolutely right, that is absolutely not the way to train her. resistance and resentment, especially in a mare, lead to a downward spiral imho. find a good, patient, kind instructor who likes your horse and can teach you how to train her, and how to be confident in a system of training.
she is YOUR horse, so if anyone is doing anything with her that you don't like, it really is totally up to you and well within your rights to say NO. this can be difficult, especially if you respect the person doing it, but even top people get it wrong sometimes.
fwiw i let a very very top trainer get on and seriously over-discipline one of my horses years ago. the horse's 'crime' was being a big gangly 5 year old who couldn't do a simple change yet... probably because i'd never tried it because i thought he wasn't ready. the trainer made him do them, repeatedly, by socking him in the chops and booting him. i still feel guilty about it, i let him do it, but the horse had never had that kind of pressure on, didn't need it, and started to grind his teeth from that moment onwards. i bitterly regret that i didn't have the courage to stop it from happening to him.
best of luck with your mare. please follow your instincts, not the words of your experienced friend, who doesn't sound that great to me tbh.
 
The tossing is her chucking her head in the air, up and down and not looking where she is going. She's got a massive stallion neck too. When she does this her head comes right up.

I don't want her ruined as she has a wonderful, sweet nature and she's mine for life, id never part with her.

Lessons with a kind instructor are the way forward i think, i'll be keeping that to myself! I want to progress without all these bits n bobs.
 
Lots of babies/unfit horses do this when they are showing discomfort from using their neck muscles. I wouldnt strap it down.Just aim for long and low outline at this point. When the headshaking starts push forward for another few minutes going whole school and then ease off. Your horse is telling you it hurts so listen but ask for a little more each time to establish further fitness.
 
Hi Express!
B, the 4 year old sec d does this, and we have gone through such a long list of things to find out whats causing it. In the end for him I think its a combination of his rider being a bit nervous and him being very green and not understanding that you can work forwards into a contact. Instructor riding him once last week really helped imrprove him.

I KNOW that you know your friend isn't doing the right things on your horse. Just because you are inexperienced doesn't mean you don't know whats right and wrong. Put your foot down, thank her politely but say firmly you'd rather it was just you riding her, carry on with your lessons and enjoy
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My rising 5 year old shakes his head when tied or stressed, this is usually the case with most youngsters. It should be seen a s asign to give him a break, take the pressure off or work him long and low. IMO strapping hs head down will onyl create resentment and future difficulties.
 
I think you need to try her without the browband. From what you've said about her not tossing her head without a bridle, I would say this could well be your problem. The browband may well be too tight for her, or she may be a horse that simply cannot tolerate the feel of it - this isnt unheard of.
 
Hiya, I agree with all of above, follow your instincts if you are not happy about her head being strapped down, then don't let it be. I know happy mouths are supposed to be really mild, but I think some horses just don't like them-has she been cheewing it and its gone all sharp and pointy? What about trying a full cheek french link, or a sweet iron french link to try to encourage more acceptance of the bit but still have amild bit? good luck!
 
I'm no expert on schooling and my boy is quite difficult and unco-operative in the school, but I would not ride him in the way your friend rode your mare.

Your mare is still quite young and I would want to avoid any strong arm tactics with her. If you can get the result without strapping her head down or using stronger bits then that has to be better for all concerned. You may take longer to get the result, but you won't sour her in the process!

Ask around for instructors that have experience with young horses and who will bring her schooling on sympathetically and in a way that YOU are happy with.
 
Personally I wouldn't ride her in a pelham. Head shaking could be her way of evading working so I would persevere. I would try lots of flexing, transitions, circles etc to keep her attention whilst schooling. I would also praise her when she doesn't shake her head
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