**HELP** Rearing Horse

[YoungsterBreeding]

Hi all

Having major issues with our rising 5yr old ISH chestnut mare. Since late December 2020, we've been battling bad behaviour from our youngster who previously has been good as gold. Starting with 'planting' during hacks, then napping when trying to work her in sight of her field companions, she has now taken it to the extreme and developed a party trick; black beauty type dangerous rearing, bucking, fly kicking and running backwards all within 5/6 seconds. From just doing it on hacks, to now when schooling both at home and away, she has become almost un rideable. After trying every 'amateur' method under the sun (chasing with a lunge whip, nice-nice, lunging, calmer) and getting the all clear from dentist, saddle, vet & physio, we hit breaking point and sent her away for schooling.
She spent 2 weeks being long lined, with varied and inconsistent success (still rearing). With no luck, she came home. We have officially hit the panic button as I feel there is no way out from this. She had been lined up to do BYEH and BE this season, she's got all the potential and scope under the sun, but she's barely rideable currently.

Anyone experience anything similar? Was there a light at the end of the tunnel?

 

[AmyMay]

If she’s previously been as good as gold, I’d guess something has gone very, very wrong with her training or there’s a physical problem that hasn’t been identified.

What vet checks did you have done?

 

[ycbm]

What checks did the vet do.?

Crossed with AM, I also think you will probably find something wrong with her. I would probably be starting with hock and back xrays and PSD scans.

 

[YoungsterBreeding]

Ulsers (clear), lameness, kissing spine, X-rays on hocks and fetlock

 

[AmyMay]

Did they X-ray her back?

 

[ycbm]

These are the worst, when you know something must be wrong but don't know what it is. Is there any link with her coming in season? It's very concerning that pros couldn't even work her on long lines, there had to be an issue somewhere.

I think I'd get neck xrays, because of my own and friend's experiences. Then maybe turn her away and try again in the autumn.

Not what you hope to hear, sorry

 

[YoungsterBreeding]

Did they X-ray her back?

Nope, not yet anyway. No soreness according to physio, no obvious pain (can be groomed and tacked up perfectly). May be our next place, but I wanted to see if anyone had any behavioural advise before racking up another vet bill

 

[YoungsterBreeding]

These are the worst, when you know something must be wrong but don't know what it is. Is there any link with her coming in season? It's very concerning that pros couldn't even work her on long lines, there had to be an issue somewhere.

I think I'd get neck xrays, because of my own and friend's experiences. Then maybe turn her away and try again in the autumn.

Not what you hope to hear, sorry

I don't think its season related as this has been going on for 3/4 months now. May be our next step to do neck and back X-rays. I am alternating between rising my hair out and crying.

 

[AmyMay]

If it’s only a physio that’s looked at her back, you need it professionally assessed, with x-rays.

 

[ycbm]

I assumed you'd had her back x rayed. You can't rule out kissing spines without. I'd have that done immediately, followed by her neck if nothing is found in her back.

I know 3 horses with kissing spines, one mine, another an immediate PTS, missed by qualified physios.

 

[YoungsterBreeding]

I don't think its season related as this has been going on for 3/4 months now. May be our next step to do neck and back X-rays. I am alternating between rising my hair out and crying.

**riping

 

[TheMule]

I doubt very much such an extreme change is behavioral.
If you have insurance or plenty of money to spend then I would send her to a very good referral center.

 

[daffy44]

I'm afraid I agree with everyone else, such extreme behaviour is most likely to be pain, I would do back and neck xrays and go from there, I'm so sorry, I know how frustrating it is when you know something is wrong but you dont know what or where.

 

[Equi]

Echo the others, a back/neck xray is needed. I don’t know her or if she’s good/bad but Sophie Seymour on fb seems to get a fair few in with these issues and invariably she tells owner to xray and they have come back with issues and been able to be rehabbed.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Full work up, it'll be pain related.

 

[fredflop]

Ulsers (clear), lameness, kissing spine, X-rays on hocks and fetlock

what exactly have you had done? What you’ve said isn’t clear of the exact procedures, and it could be that your horse has already been in for a full lameness work up, or the vet has had a quick once over and said they didn’t see anything.

however what you do next totally depends on your budget. I’d suggest a full lameness work up at the earliest opportunity. In the meantime see if you can get the teeth done. I had a horse throw real tantrums when he needed his teeth doing.

 

[eggs]

Funnily enough a Sophie Seymour Facebook video popped up earlier today. She had a horse in (Baloo I think) and after x-raying was found to have kissing spines. Operated on and rehabbed and the difference in the before and after videos of him hacking down the road are remarkable.

 

[Alli54]

So strange , have also had a similar experience . Have a young horse who was a bit naughty but then one day all he'll broke lose...same as you did the vet thing, zadel maker , bit fitter and physio...ended up going to clinic for x rays and there it was ....basically a blocked muscle in the neck....was treated with physio and a laser treatment and now have a very well behaved horsey riding high level dressage....don't give up there is an answer for it. Good luck !

 

[Lady Jane]

This is not what you want to hear. My young horse has has scintigraphy, everything x-rayed that can be x-rayed, everything scanned that can be scanned (except no CT on head), MRIs on feet, and loads of nerve blocks, motion sensor analysis and they still can't work out what's wrong but agree he isn't quite right. He just won't go forward when he 'goes wrong' so I can have a lovely horses for a few weeks and then the next day he doesn't even want to trot. My point of this is not to depress you but there are many many things for you to test/investigate yet before you give up. You need to get to see one of the top equine vets in the country. Where do you live? He is now turned away for a couple of years to see if he comes right, he is 8 this year

 

[shortstuff99]

This is not what you want to hear. My young horse has has scintigraphy, everything x-rayed that can be x-rayed, everything scanned that can be scanned (except no CT on head), MRIs on feet, and loads of nerve blocks, motion sensor analysis and they still can't work out what's wrong but agree he isn't quite right. He just won't go forward when he 'goes wrong' so I can have a lovely horses for a few weeks and then the next day he doesn't even want to trot. My point of this is not to depress you but there are many many things for you to test/investigate yet before you give up. You need to get to see one of the top equine vets in the country. Where do you live? He is now turned away for a couple of years to see if he comes right, he is 8 this year

Have you tested for PSSM 1 and 2? Your symptoms do sound as if they could fit.

 

[Lady Jane]

@shortstuff: he has had various blood tests but I'm not sure what for to be honest. I will ask my vet. Thanks for suggestion

 

[shortstuff99]

@shortstuff: he has had various blood tests but I'm not sure what for to be honest. I will ask my vet. Thanks for suggestion

It is a genetic test for them, this is a good group to join if you are on facebook

https://www.facebook.com/groups/420056078181332/?ref=share

 

[Lady Jane]

@shortstuff99 I have been reading up and his symptoms just don't fit?

 

[shortstuff99]

@shortstuff99 I have been reading up and his symptoms just don't fit?

It was the lack of forwards, pssm horses really dislike going forwards. They can also be explosive.

 

[Widgeon]

I'm afraid I agree with everyone else, such extreme behaviour is most likely to be pain, I would do back and neck xrays and go from there

Another vote for this, a friend's youngster started with similar symptoms at a similar point in the backing process and he turned out to have very bad neck arthritis. Can't hurt to rule it out, at least.

 

[paddy555]

Have you tested for PSSM 1 and 2? Your symptoms do sound as if they could fit.

both of these problem horses sound to be similar. ie youngsters who worked OK and were fine and then went bad for absolutely no apparent reason. That is classic PSSM symptom. OP your problems started Dec. Late Oct, Nov, Dec depending on how early the bad weather comes is also classic PSSM time. Very few physios will find it unless they know to look out for it. It is often bottom of vets lists.

Before doing anything else (which must be back X rays near the top of the list and will be expensive) I would experiment to try and rule it in or out.
PSSM1 test is around £35 and doesn't need a vet. Just a hair test you do yourself and get a definitive answer.

Testing for PSSM2 is more difficult. You have the choice of a muscle biopsy or a test that is not peer reviewed and some think questionable,some are happy with it.

Many just manage for PSSM 2 and see if there is any success. I would suggest that you take around 3 weeks on PSSM2 management and see if there is any change. This involves high dose vit e, keeping the horse warm both in the field and ridden (exercise sheet) and keeping the horse exercised preferably daily. Not all PSSM horses require all these things all the time but doing them does cover most bases. Also keeping a diary and trying to relate your symptoms to both the weather and work/management regime. There are also other adjustments you can make which are detailed in the files section of the FB link SS gave you.
Some people blood test for vit E levels before dosing, some just dose to try and see if there is a result. Results come quickly if that is part of the problem and the bad behaviour goes.The bad behaviour of course is simply being caused by pain.

OP if your pro had problems with long reining what were they using eg bridle/side reins? If so I would long rein on a headcollar and even get rid of that and LR on a neck rope (in a safe place) Just to try and relieve all pressure on the head and mouth. If there was any success I would get a vet who was qualified as a dentist to double check the mouth. I appreciate you have had the dentist but to get to the bottom of this I think you will have to revisit things and double check them again.
If not then you are onto the neck and back.

 

[Lady Jane]

It was the lack of forwards, pssm horses really dislike going forwards. They can also be explosive.

Have discussed with vet - being scoped for ulcers this week. I don't think I described his issues very well

 

[Goldenstar]

My guess would be a major lameness issue bilaterally behind .
Get the horse straight to a good work up vet ASAP .