Help sad update one of the last free roaming Fell herds

hackedoff

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One of the last few hill breeders for free roaming Fells has just lost a case against naturalnengkand who have sought to force his herd of the Fell. They have grazed their since the 1950s , well before natural England was invented! This all started following their rounding the herd and impounding it in Christmas Eve forcing the breeder who is in his late 70s to produce all the ponies passports and evidence of micro chipping before releasing them. The breeder is a last surviving and poor hill farmer, he is facing massive legal fees as the judge awarded natural England costs and of course they will have used a barrister. He could appeal but I gather this has pretty well broken him and he would need the funds to appeal as well. There is more behind this but can’t comment more in case it impacts on an appeal. God knows what Will happen to the herd now. There is a just giving page. I’m renowned for being tight fisted but have contributed . A £ or more from each forum member could turn the tide. My only interest in this is that I own a Fell that came from this herd.
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/fleur-hallam/updates/3b3a5?utm_term=gDebb2KZk
 

hackedoff

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I will donate when I get home. I really wanted to find out more about the case though, can you point me in the right direction please? Also a Fell owner, though not from that herd.

Best place is facebook Fell Pony Group for info. See also my other post as I pressed the send button mid post on my reply to you! Sorry about that.
 
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hackedoff

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Sorry pressed post to quickly! Here is a clip that shows why this herd is important and the breeder, the clip is about 10 years old. it makes me so sad and the breeder seems to be receiving little support from the breed society who seem to scared to act - presumably worried about the potential for action against their own herds - I don't know really.

https://vimeo.com/13389107
 

hackedoff

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The Queen rides a Greenholme mare, and I wouldn’t be surprised if their driving ponies are the same stock, so I don’t understand why things have got so bad.

Natural England. That’s the issue. The same body responsible for rewilding of saddleworth moor recently which went so well that it all set alight this year - no fire breaks.

Apparantly NE are doing the same in Dartmoor. The sad thing is the Greenholme herd herd is only 24 ponies. I believe this all kicked off with interference from a neighbouring sheep farmer who wants his sheep on the Fell which suits NE... I will try to answer any other queries later as just finished my late lunch break x
 

MotherOfChickens

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Best place is facebook Fell Pony Group for info. See also my other post as I pressed the send button mid post on my reply to you! Sorry about that.

yes, I'm a member but have failed to see any specifics other than what you've posted. I'd really like to see something from NE -a statement or something regarding this specific case if one is available as to why they've taken the action they have and timescale.
 

ester

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I'm also confused as to where the current legal fees re. judge awarding costs to NE has come from, what was the legal stuff all about?
 

hackedoff

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But this misses the point that the ponies had been there since the 1950s in the same numbers and no problem till a policy change by NE around 3 years ago, it’s unbalanced reporting and a court judgement that was flawed.
 

HBB

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But this misses the point that the ponies had been there since the 1950s in the same numbers and no problem till a policy change by NE around 3 years ago, it’s unbalanced reporting and a court judgement that was flawed.

Yes I agree but posters were asking where/why the court came to their decision. As you have said all the information is on Facebook but it is throughout many, many posts and comments. Information is being lost.

I have been following this case. It has been going on for nearly 5 years. Natural England have not released a statement on the case.

I know the Potters. I have donated. They are very likely to appeal.
 
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ester

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Yes but you/the gofundme didn't even say why a court case had even happened/what the charge was. That's all quite important information so that people can understand.
 

hackedoff

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Yes but you/the gofundme didn't even say why a court case had even happened/what the charge was. That's all quite important information so that people can understand.

Agreed perhaps we Fell lovers are too close to it emotionally, also there was a fear of subjuducy which I can’t spell if too much was said.
 

HBB

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I have lifted some FB comments from one of Mr Potter's legal team, which should hopefully explain a little more on the situation:

"Mr Potter was charged with grazing his Fell Ponies without the consent of NE. NE claim they had not consented to any grazing at all by Mr Potter. This was denied by Mr Potter. The common was designated a SSSI back in 1988. Mr Potters ponies were grazing prior to, throughout and after the designation without break."

"The Common is in an HLS but Mr Potter had chosen not to be a part of this scheme, which is his right. HLS scheme entry is voluntary and large payments are made to commoners who join them. Mr Potter did not receive any money under the scheme."

"HLS schemes cannot be imposed on anyone. Mr Potter was quite within his rights not to join it. You talk about "main income" those farmers who do join do obtain huge payments from the taxpayer and indeed if the taxpayer but knew I think there would be an outcry. Mr Potter exercised his right not to join the HLS and NE had no power to force him to join it or to impose the conditions of the scheme upon him. He did not want the money not because he could afford not to have it but because he took upon his own shoulders the seriousness of the situation facing Fell Ponies and was highly conscious of the fact he was only one of a handful of extensive hill farmers left keeping ponies on the common. NE and the FPS ought to hang their heads in shame."

"The fundamental point is that there is no obligation on any commoner to join an HLS (Higher Level Scheme) or any other improvement scheme on land whether or not it is in a SSSI (site of special scientific interest)"


It's a real life David and Goliath situation, Natural England bullying an elderly hill farmer who has grazed his Fell ponies on the fell/common for many, many years, long before Natural England was "invented". Mr Potter is in very poor health and this court case has caused him and his wife a huge amount of stress and upset.

I hope some of those comments have helped explain what is happening.
 

DD

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if he'd joined the HLS scheme the outcome might be different. it sounds to me that there are too many animals grazed on the area. If the amount of animals on a given area are deemed to be detrimental to the ground then stock needs to be reduced. the payments are to compensate the farmer for loss of income due to this measure. it applies to sheep cattle and ponies. the guy is over stocking the land. I have no sympathy at all. joining the scheme or at least reducing his grazing units ( ponies) to the recommended levels would have meant he could have kept some on the hill I would think. if hes allowed to overgraze a triple si then it sets a precedent and other areas will have to be allowed to be trashed too. triple si's are Sites of Special Scientific Interest with many species and plants which are often rare for example newts and cotton grass.
 
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Nudibranch

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As a Fell owner and also someone who is currently being royally fleeced by the beaurocratic cash cow that is NE's regulations on bat licences for building work, I can sypathise with the poor man. I will definitely read up on this and donate. The intentions behind NE may be worthy but the way they do things is often nonsense.
 

gallopingby

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It seems there could be far more to this than meets the eye! People need to be aware of all sides in matters like this in order to reach a balanced view.
I would be interested to know what the Bar Council/Solicitors regulatory body thinks of comments being posted on a public forum, if I had employed a 'legal team' and they posted comments on facebook I'd be questioning their credibility.
 

HBB

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It seems there could be far more to this than meets the eye! People need to be aware of all sides in matters like this in order to reach a balanced view.
I would be interested to know what the Bar Council/Solicitors regulatory body thinks of comments being posted on a public forum, if I had employed a 'legal team' and they posted comments on facebook I'd be questioning their credibility.

It has been to court all information is now in the public domain.
 

HBB

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if he'd joined the HLS scheme the outcome might be different. it sounds to me that there are too many animals grazed on the area. If the amount of animals on a given area are deemed to be detrimental to the ground then stock needs to be reduced. the payments are to compensate the farmer for loss of income due to this measure. it applies to sheep cattle and ponies. the guy is over stocking the land. I have no sympathy at all. joining the scheme or at least reducing his grazing units ( ponies) to the recommended levels would have meant he could have kept some on the hill I would think. if hes allowed to overgraze a triple si then it sets a precedent and other areas will have to be allowed to be trashed too. triple si's are Sites of Special Scientific Interest with many species and plants which are often rare for example newts and cotton grass.

"The guy" is nearly 80 years old and was born and bred on Birkbeck Fell, he has farmed there all his life. It is a brutal existence. For anyone who has not been there it is over 1,800 acres of desolate moorland, Bill Potter only grazes 24 Fell ponies on it now. All he is guilty of is not being forced to comply with signing up to Natural England's ideology.
 
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HBB

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Which information? I don't think this answers the question, but it seems anyone can say anything about anything. Don't people have a right of appeal?

You've lost me? You were the one questioning the credibility of his legal team. I replied that it has been to court, so no longer under judicial consideration. The Potters have given their permission for what happened in court can be discussed in public to raise awareness. The Potters are very likely to appeal but he is a very ill man and this has all taken it's toll on him.
 
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DD

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"The guy" is nearly 80 years old and was born and bred on Birkbeck Fell, he has farmed there all his life. It is a brutal existence. For anyone who has not been there it is over 1,800 acres of desolate moorland, Bill Potter only grazes 24 Fell ponies on it now. All he is guilty of is not being forced to comply with signing up to Natural England's ideology.

we farmed in a similar area in the north of England. I know all about existence in that environment. We kept a large flock of sheep on a grouse moor which went into an environmental agreement. Thousands of acres. changes had to be made and time has shown that it has all been for the better. You have to move with the times its all about conservation of environment now not just letting people do what they want on the fells because they have always done it.
 

HBB

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And that is where Natural England will be failing our rare native breeds. It will be a sad day when you can't see the very small amount of semi feral herds of Fell ponies grazing in their natural habitat on the Cumbrian Fells. I suppose at the end of the day elderly traditional hill farmers are easy targets for NE.
 

Leo Walker

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They are still grazing though arent they? I thought he had just been asked to reduce numbers? To be honest, sad though it is for the faarmer, having watched the video clip I'll be glad if anyone who still "swings" foals gives up horses!
 
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