HELP Seriousy Spooky Mare Bolting - Bad Fall this Morning :( Bye Bye Confidence

Do you actually desperately want to hack? I'm in no way saying avoid the issue but some horses, as amymay says, needs a real good hard job to do and don't really suit people who want them to do a bit of everything.

My own horse is probably equally as bad as yours to hack, he will rear and rear and rear forever and a day, bronc and leap with no regard for traffic, drainage ditches etc etc and then passage sideways home like an unexplored bomb.

He doesn't jump, will nap to a stop and threaten to rear.....on the face of it he doesn't sound like a nice prospect does he, but he loves his dressage, happily works ONLY in the school and is competing PSG, schooling baby GP.....perhaps your mare would be happier in a home where she is pandered to a bit, allowed to only do what she wants as long as she does it well????
Quirky horses need someone happy to let them have their way to a certain degree.
 
Sounds like you've had a nasty shock OP. I can't offer any words of wisdom in terms of dealing with this type of problem but noticed your location was Yorkshire. Whereabouts are you in Yorkshire (it's a big county!). Someone may be able to recommend a pro who could help you with the hacking side of things (and there will be plenty who are sympathetic and will not use force - simply because they are a professional does not mean they are harsh but what they will have is the experience of riding lots of different, probably quirky horses).
 
Not read all the replies so sorry if I'm repeating somebody! My instructor taught me how to do an 'emergency stop' the thinking behind it is that a horse cannot buck rear or bolt if their spine is bent.

So your horse is naughty and you think 'help I'm not in control', take one hand and put it on your hip (I grab the pocket of my jacket), drop the other rein completely and don't kick! Horse will come to a stop and release the rein when there is slack (i.e. the horse isn't pulling against you).

Be very careful using this on the roads or whatever but is perfect for in the paddock when you feel out of control or need to diffuse a situation.
 
emma.is said:
Not read all the replies so sorry if I'm repeating somebody! My instructor taught me how to do an 'emergency stop' the thinking behind it is that a horse cannot buck rear or bolt if their spine is bent.

So your horse is naughty and you think 'help I'm not in control', take one hand and put it on your hip (I grab the pocket of my jacket), drop the other rein completely and don't kick! Horse will come to a stop and release the rein when there is slack (i.e. the horse isn't pulling against you).

Be very careful using this on the roads or whatever but is perfect for in the paddock when you feel out of control or need to diffuse a situation.
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Do you mean pull one rein, if so I wish someone had told my oldie that works 30 years ago, He seemed to manage to go hell for leather over the moors with his nose on my boot
 
pollypock1211 said:
i dont think she is bored. She loves her work and she would keep going forever and a day. We only had one lesson per week (45 mins) the rest of the week consists of hacking (or it did). The lessons were an hours hack away as well.
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I think this is the issue - one lesson a week and the rest of the time hacking isn't very stimulating for a horse that needs a job to do and sure as heck doesn't keep the brai active, too much time to think up mischief...
 
I agree with the last poster! I tend to mix things up with my 4yo, schooling, flatwork, hacking , jumping, lunging, loose schooling over jumps which she adores. Maybe ad more variety to her work.
 
My gelding was spooky and not comfortable leaving home, I began with him in hand, initially he tried to get back home at high speed, even before we left the driveway. My PNH instructor at the time taught me how to keep him busy on our walks, asking for yields, and changes of direction etc, little exercises we could work through whenever something took his attention, or he was getting upset. We got to the point where he loved his walks so much that he would race up to the gate and be waiting when he saw my car, and that i did not even need to hold onto the lead, he would just stay with me, stop when i stopped, and start when i started.

If you have an NH or IH instructor available, they should be able to help with this. We used to find obstacles to play with, ie garbage bins, grates, ditches, creeks, scary letter boxes to jump/approach/get used to, and in time he would just have a go at anything.
 
I most certainly would if it was that easy - i am on a private yard with no school or facilities. The lessons are with the best in our area which come at a costly price!

I have been actually thinking moving yards with more facilities and a school where i can gain more confidence but the way i am feeling at the moment i do not want to even think about getting back on her.

In response to earlier post i am in South Yorkshire so if anyone can recommend any 'pros' near by to help with the hacking i would be very interested.

Thank you
 
emma.is said:
Not read all the replies so sorry if I'm repeating somebody! My instructor taught me how to do an 'emergency stop' the thinking behind it is that a horse cannot buck rear or bolt if their spine is bent.

So your horse is naughty and you think 'help I'm not in control', take one hand and put it on your hip (I grab the pocket of my jacket), drop the other rein completely and don't kick! Horse will come to a stop and release the rein when there is slack (i.e. the horse isn't pulling against you).

Be very careful using this on the roads or whatever but is perfect for in the paddock when you feel out of control or need to diffuse a situation.
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I tried this whilst she was bolting yesterday more than once but it was disastrous not sure what i was doing wrong it all happened so fast - however it must have slowed her down to some degree. The path was narrow and i did manage to bend her around and straight into the hedge which only made her throw her head and rear. The second time i tried it i think she tripped or slipped and this is when i fell. Im sure she didn't actually throw me off. I was so glad when i did finally fall actually, i was relived it was over!
 
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I can quite understand you not wanting to get aboard again. If its any help I think part of the problem might be you being on a small yard with only another mare for company (hope that is right) and they have probably developed a very strong bond. Your mare has now learned that she can get back to the yard (and her friend) by bolting and has got away with it. If she were mine I would send her away to a professional to get her out of this habit and then find a yard that has facilities and a lot more horses so she is less inclined to bond closely with just one horse. Also, as has been said already, variety in her work to give her something to think about.
 
"One rein stops" have to be trained/practiced in a controlled environment to be reliably effective. Most western trainers teach them very early as part of the horse's general training so they are there both as an exercise and an "in case" once the horse is hacking, doing fast work etc. Without the training - for the rider, too - it can work, especially on a stiffer horse and/or one that isn't so committed or panicked, but it can also end badly if the horse is thrown off balance and doesn't actually know what the suitable response should be.
 
Just to say good luck. You have had a lot of good advice so I hope at least you don't feel so on your own. My only pennies worth is around her work. A horse that is in regular work and is bottomed out regularly can become quite a different horse when the work decreases. I hacked out last weekend with a good friend and her normally über reliable enjoyable horse is becoming a total pain in the a**e, and my youngster decided to copy every stupid thing her horse did. Even my old mare, who is the yard matriarch and bombproof took off with my sharer last week and proceeded to snort and jog when I hacked her yesterday... People very often under estimate the impact that a change of work will have.
 
^^^ Very true. As the cowboys say, wet saddle blankets make good horses. ;)

I'm starting with a horse tomorrow because the owner is struggling to find enough time to school him and he's becoming a massive t*t in every other way because of it. I have quite a few horses on my books I ride only when their owners don't have enough time because they have learned from experience it's better value to pay for a few rides than try to cope when the horse isn't doing enough. The other week we took a bunch to an big local indoor so they could have a good canter and a couple of jumps and be tired at the end of it.

It is possible your horse just can't live the sort of life you can currently offer her. Perhaps you can tweak other factors - feed for instance - but it might very well be worth looking at a move, at least until the weather improves, and possibly even someone else to ride her a bit if you are short of time. It might be, at that point, you decide you can't continue to accommodate her but it is also possible that, when you know her better, you might be able to keep her more successfully back in her current situation.
 
I think a yard move is a very good idea and could well make a significant difference in your situation - you need a school so you can work her reasonably hard 2-3 times a week so she's not fresh and having other people around to hack with etc will improve yor confidence too - having a highly bred sharp horse in a two horse yard with no facilities can be a recipe for disaster in my exp :-(
 
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pollypock1211 said:
To be honest i cant see how i am ever going to dare get back on her now - we could have caused such a serious accident and i cant believe i have come out of it with just cuts and bruises (bad!)
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IMO once you get to this point where you've had a serious scare then maybe you need to stop hacking for a while? One of my horses bolted twice early on when I first got him, first time he went straight through a barbed wire fence (still has the scars) into a boggy field where he then turned to broncing until I jumped off. Second time he span, I came off and he bolted for home (about 1 1/2 miles away) down a main road. Its quite a quiet road but lots of bends so he could so easily have been hit. Thankfully he stopped at some horses and a neighbour caught him. Seeing him take off down the road was the last straw, I simply stopped hacking from then on. Ive hacked him in company fine but never did alone again. We just schooled etc. and he was fine with that - if yours is that spooky, you wonder if he's enjoying the hacking anyway. I know its nice to hack but once you get such a scare I think its always at the back of your mind, Im terrified of hacking but will merrily gallop round a novice BE track!

Perhaps you could find a yard where you could always hack out in company? He's unlikely to bolt if he's with other horses. I didnt have that option as I keep my horses privately at home (with nobody else to ride with).
 
My horse is also kept privately at home :( but I am moving her. I've been up all night thinking & even if I am to sell her I would need to move her where there is an arena. I thought I could get away with keeping her at home & just boxing her hacking her up to our lessons weekly but it seems she needs more work, more trust and definatly won't be hacked out alone again :( I'm not sure if this is the type of horse I want.
 
I haven't read all the replies so this has probably been mentioned but have you tried magnesium? I have a spooky mare and it has made an enormous differance and it's only about £10 for at least a couple of months.
 
LD&S said:
I haven't read all the replies so this has probably been mentioned but have you tried magnesium? I have a spooky mare and it has made an enormous differance and it's only about £10 for at least a couple of months.
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Hi, yes she is on a magnesium based feed and supplement! It made no difference what so ever.
 
Sorry to be blunt here but it sounds like a somewhat 'sharp' mare with a somewhat inexperienced rider.

It sounds like this is totally learnt behaviour on her part - she has learnt from you that 'go' doesn't mean 'go' and 'stop' doesn't mean stop.

By consistently allowing her to loose her line (lack of straightness in the shoulders) and spook spin, bolt, etc, etc, it has consistently reinforced this behaviour. Turning in circles does not help at all and I'll tell you why - when they are able to put as much distance between themselves and the scary object as then can, it only confirms that they were 'correct' to bolt/run. By turning her in circles you are allowing her to loose her line/straightness. As such, you are not controlling her shoulders in order to make her face the scary object so as to lessen her fear. If a horse runs away from the scary object it reinforces just how 'right' they were to flee thus making it more likely this behaviour will occur again in the future.

To her, there is not enough pressure from your legs and your reins (and then the subsequent release that rewards the correct behavour) for her to be MOTIVATED to respond to your 'attempts' at stop and go.

Spooking can be because you lack control over the shoulders through the use of the direct and indirect rein. However, never mind about these as I don't even think that you have 'stop' and 'go' sorted yet.

A stronger bit will not help - only unless you can't deliver manually enough pressure to motivate her to stop immediately. However, with a stronger bit there is a danger you may apply too much pressure causing her to over-react to this - and then you've got another problem mixed in with the lack of 'go' and the lack of 'stop'. In my experience this is a recipe for rearing.

This behaviour will only get worse in my opinion and you need professional help to show you how to deliver the right amount of pressure that will motivate her to give you the behaviour you want. You need someone who is sympathetic and who will not 'blame' the horse or see her as naughty as you must 'shape' and reward any basic attempt she gives you at the correct behaviour.

The longer she maintains this behaviour, the more it becomes reinforced and the harder it is to correct.

I would think about your own safety first - you don't want another trip to A&E and a horse who's behaviour deteriorates even further to the point of needing rehabilitative work which will cost a fortune or worst euthenasia.

I may be totally wrong however, as it is so difficult to see when you're not there.

Best of luck, either way and I'm glad you're OK - that is the most important thing.
 
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Also wanted to say that - do you have her on a reasonably high carbohydrate diet?

Some horses metabolise and convert carbs to glucose in a way that produces some quite erratic behaviour.

You could try using more oil as this is metabolised differently and will thus not produce such unwanted behaviours.

You also mention that she is good in the school. I agree with the other poster who has stated that her basic responses of 'stop'/'go' are probably still be 'faulty' - but it's just that they simply won't show as much due to less environment stimulus.

Technically for your horse to be 'on the aids' and under your control they should exhibit the same behaviour in all environments. Going to a show, hacking, or a new environment will 'test' your ability at putting your horse 'on the aids' and for him/her to respond correctly.

Are you mainly in a school with your instructor? This may also be a clue as to why she's better behaved. You may be riding differently because your instructor is there.

Just a thought.
 
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I really sympathise, having once had a pony here that seemed to be looking for something to be scared of all the time. I would take him on the lanes, but never any ride that included main road, because he would act just as you describe. Stop, back, spin and rush off, although fortnately in this case he never went far. He too was quite OK in company and took his confidence from other horses. (In this case the older rider decided not to persevere with him and went to a different home where he is always ridden in company).

Sometimes a horse is not suited to an environment, yet another would be fine, so don't feel too disheartened.
 
Tonks said:
Sorry to be blunt here but it sounds like a somewhat 'sharp' mare with a somewhat inexperienced rider.

It sounds like this is totally learnt behaviour on her part - she has learnt from you that 'go' doesn't mean 'go' and 'stop' doesn't mean stop.

By consistently allowing her to loose her line (lack of straightness in the shoulders) and spook spin, bolt, etc, etc, it has consistently reinforced this behaviour. Turning in circles does not help at all and I'll tell you why - when they are able to put as much distance between themselves and the scary object as then can, it only confirms that they were 'correct' to bolt/run. By turning her in circles you are allowing her to loose her line/straightness. As such, you are not controlling her shoulders in order to make her face the scary object so as to lessen her fear. If a horse runs away from the scary object it reinforces just how 'right' they were to flee thus making it more likely this behaviour will occur again in the future.
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Thank you for your good advice :) i do not allow her to loose her line whilst out hacking/schooling and during the approach of a spooky object. If i did, i would have been a lot worse off now with far too many near mishaps. I have never turned her in circles as i knew this would increase her tension it was just what someone had suggested to get her attention back on to me. I understand in dealing with bolting there is the prevention and the cure. I have tried to prevent the bolt by knowing when she is going to spook and then not allowing her to spin. However passing the spooky object i do try to keep her neck slightly bent, with her nose to one side or the other by lifting one rein. In that position, i assume I have more control and can pick up one rein to gain leverage over her. When her neck is stiff and straight, I am in a tug of war that i cannot win!


Tonks said:
A stronger bit will not help - only unless you can't deliver manually enough pressure to motivate her to stop immediately. However, with a stronger bit there is a danger you may apply too much pressure causing her to over-react to this - and then you've got another problem mixed in with the lack of 'go' and the lack of 'stop'. In my experience this is a recipe for rearing.
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She has never had her bit changed and is always ridden in a french link snaffle and always will be. I have said this from day one.

Tonks said:
This behaviour will only get worse in my opinion and you need professional help to show you how to deliver the right amount of pressure that will motivate her to give you the behaviour you want. You need someone who is sympathetic and who will not 'blame' the horse or see her as naughty as you must 'shape' and reward any basic attempt she gives you at the correct behaviour.

The longer she maintains this behaviour, the more it becomes reinforced and the harder it is to correct.
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Totally agree with this and professional help is being sought. Although something i have figured out with this mare is that she does not respond well to pressure.

Tonks said:
I would think about your own safety first - you don't want another trip to A&E and a horse who's behaviour deteriorates even further to the point of needing rehabilitative work which will cost a fortune or worst euthenasia.

I may be totally wrong however, as it is so difficult to see when you're not there.

Best of luck, either way and I'm glad you're OK - that is the most important thing.
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Thank you :)
 
Tonks said:
Sorry to be blunt here but it sounds like a somewhat 'sharp' mare with a somewhat inexperienced rider.

It sounds like this is totally learnt behaviour on her part - she has learnt from you that 'go' doesn't mean 'go' and 'stop' doesn't mean stop.


This behaviour will only get worse in my opinion and you need professional help to show you how to deliver the right amount of pressure that will motivate her to give you the behaviour you want. You need someone who is sympathetic and who will not 'blame' the horse or see her as naughty as you must 'shape' and reward any basic attempt she gives you at the correct behaviour.

The longer she maintains this behaviour, the more it becomes reinforced and the harder it is to correct.

I would think about your own safety first - you don't want another trip to A&E and a horse who's behaviour deteriorates even further to the point of needing rehabilitative work which will cost a fortune or worst euthenasia.

I may be totally wrong however, as it is so difficult to see when you're not there.

Best of luck, either way and I'm glad you're OK - that is the most important thing.
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Tonks said:
You also mention that she is good in the school. I agree with the other poster who has stated that her basic responses of 'stop'/'go' are probably still be 'faulty' - but it's just that they simply won't show as much due to less environment stimulus.

Technically for your horse to be 'on the aids' and under your control they should exhibit the same behaviour in all environments. Going to a show, hacking, or a new environment will 'test' your ability at putting your horse 'on the aids' and for him/her to respond correctly.

Are you mainly in a school with your instructor? This may also be a clue as to why she's better behaved. You may be riding differently because your instructor is there.

Just a thought.
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Don't always agree with everything you say, tonks, but I think you are absolutely on the money on this one, couldn't have put it better myself.
 
Tonks said:
Also wanted to say that - do you have her on a reasonably high carbohydrate diet?

Some horses metabolise and convert carbs to glucose in a way that produces some quite erratic behaviour.

You could try using more oil as this is metabolised differently and will thus not produce such unwanted behaviours.
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Not at all - she is on a complete fibre feed (Mollichaff Calmer)

Tonks said:
You also mention that she is good in the school. I agree with the other poster who has stated that her basic responses of 'stop'/'go' are probably still be 'faulty' - but it's just that they simply won't show as much due to less environment stimulus.

Technically for your horse to be 'on the aids' and under your control they should exhibit the same behaviour in all environments. Going to a show, hacking, or a new environment will 'test' your ability at putting your horse 'on the aids' and for him/her to respond correctly.

Are you mainly in a school with your instructor? This may also be a clue as to why she's better behaved. You may be riding differently because your instructor is there.

Just a thought.
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Always in a school with my instructor - so this is a possibility
 
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