HELP!! sorry another post about the new trailer law!!

I think a massive part of the problem is that the DVLA don't make it at all clear what is and isn't legal re towing laws.

I've tried so many times to work it out from the direct gov site and just ended up giving up and taking the damn test so I know I'm covered!
 
so if i was to tow an ifor williams hb506 (which im buying next week!) with java in the total weight would be 950 + 550 = 1500

so does that mean my tow vehicle has to be 2 tonnes or under? we use a land rover discovery im not sure what the weight of that is?
 
Kirsty+Java said:
so if i was to tow an ifor williams hb506 (which im buying next week!) with java in the total weight would be 950 + 550 = 1500

so does that mean my tow vehicle has to be 2 tonnes or under? we use a land rover discovery im not sure what the weight of that is?
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It means if you don't have your B+E entitlement on your license you need to take your test.
 
jesstickle said:
sorry SF. That sounded a bit grumpy when it really wasn't supposed to at all :) I do wish I could drive a lorry, but that'll be another spensive test when the time comes. Sounds like you're in a good position if you ever need a driver. I'm jealous!

I do think there are some people out there who really haven't ever been shown the ropes, not so much us horse people as we're carrying precious cargo, but I do wonder about some people pulling caravans!
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That's ok no offence taken. No need to be jealous I don't have drivers any more oh is ex hubby and dad is now too infirm to drive lorry :( Which is why I have had to change my lorry to one with an easier clutch after my ankle replacement I could no longer drive the old one. Still waiting for the conversion to be completed. But hey it was done on very limited budget with old box put on newer chassis (nothing posh but practical)

I think your right about caravans though, I do know several people who just go and buy one then off they go, with no clue at all!!!
 
charlotte79 said:
ok so i just found this
http://www.allansvehicleservices.co.uk/23701/21463.html
which says gvw 2115kgs so + the 1400 =3515 which is over but i could get the trailer downrated to 1200??
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There is no such thing as downrating an unplated trailer. This is only a manufacturers recommendation. Providing the gross train weight does not physicaly exceed 3.5 tonnes and the maximum towing weight of the car is not exceeded ,it is legal.
 
Mike007 said:
There is no such thing as downrating an unplated trailer. This is only a manufacturers recommendation. Providing the gross train weight does not physicaly exceed 3.5 tonnes and the maximum towing weight of the car is not exceeded ,it is legal.
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What about if it does have a plate on. You sound like someone in the know so I'm going to pester you until I understand :p
 
jesstickle said:
What about if it does have a plate on. You sound like someone in the know so I'm going to pester you until I understand :p
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There are two sorts of "plate" One is the manufacturers plate which shows what the engineers have calculated is the maximum safe load for the trailer. The other is a VOSA Plate which is for much heavier trailers .The problem is that people get the two confused.
 
Mike007 said:
There are two sorts of "plate" One is the manufacturers plate which shows what the engineers have calculated is the maximum safe load for the trailer. The other is a VOSA Plate which is for much heavier trailers .The problem is that people get the two confused.
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ditto this.
My trailer (a sinclair type) was plated at 2200kgs, my car MAM is 2150kg, after speaking to the trailer officer at DVLA I had the plate "turned" and engraved to say 2000kg so it is now legal! Must add - I have removed the central partition and only ever travel one horse so I can be confident to stay below the new max weight. You don't have to 'apply' to change the plate but you must not excced the weight on it.
 
Mike007 said:
There are two sorts of "plate" One is the manufacturers plate which shows what the engineers have calculated is the maximum safe load for the trailer. The other is a VOSA Plate which is for much heavier trailers .The problem is that people get the two confused.
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Right. I see. So basically a horse trailer only has the first type so it doesn't matter what it says is your maximum weight it is all about how much you actually have on when you're escorted to the weigh bridge? Am I getting that right?
 
festivecheer said:
Not quite. The plate also has to say a number less than the MAM of the car.
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Right. Yep I think I get that bit. Laden trailer mustn't weigh more than the car BUT it is the actual weight of the trailer which mustn't be more than the car rather than the hypothetical maximum weight of the trailer??
 
Mike007 said:
No ,it is merely a manufacturers recommendation. What counts is the actual weight.
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DVLA's trailer officer was insistent that the number on the plate had to be correct. It took me 2 days to find someone to believe! So I'm sticking with it.;)

it is criminally confusing though, and imposible to find a clear consistent message.
 
Yes it is confusing. The problem is that while there is no requirement for the trailer to have an equal or lower weight than the towing vehicle under construction and use regulations .There is however ,under the Driver and vehicle licensing regulations to be driven within category B(not having passed a trailer test or being exempt)The problem is that the manufacturers plate was not even a legal requirement until comparatively recently .
 
You would need to check your licence carefully. You may find that the 3.5 tonne is Gross vehicle weight, not gross train weight.
Some licences may show you can tow up to 750kg others may not, seems to be no set procedure.
For example, my origional car licence allowed 7.5 tonne GVW and 12 tonne GTW, but after I took my LGV 'C' (rigid) licence the train weight now dropped to pulling a 750kg trailer!
Then I took my LGV 'C&E' which removed all towing limits.
Check what it shows on the back of your licence, and be sure what you are doing is legal!
 
You really need to contact VOSA and get the legal requirements - my understanding was that the law has changed recently.

Your car needs to weigh more (see log book for details I believe) than the trailer's MAM weight (I believe this is the maximum laden weight) - it does not matter if you only ever carry a trailer full of cotton wool balls - if VOSA pull you over at the side of the road and find your trailer plate shows your MAM is higher than your vehicle weight you will get fined.

I believe this is because there are not many weighbridges around when you need them so cannot prove your trailer (with whatever you are carrying) is less than your car. They take the plate details as read and do you if the maths do not add up....

But I would reitterate - you need to speak to VOSA and not people on this forum....
 
The trailer manufacturers plate does not determine the MAM ,It is often higher than the MAM (but never lower). Incidentaly the requirement regarding not exceeding the towing vehicle weight is not an offence of overloading under the construction and use regulations but an offence under the Driver and vehicle licensing regulations. The DVLA are the relevant authority.
 
See. Bl00dy minefield. I'm very glad I took my test. I will make sure I buy a nice, old (but safe OH is engineer so can make sure for me) trailer with no manufacturers plate and they can either believe me about my weights or take me to a weigh bridge. What a load of rubbish the DVLA are. You would think they were trying to catch people out you really would.
 
Having just spent 700 quid to take an intensive course and get my B+E trailer licence i would recommend taking it.

You can be fined up 3k and/or have your trailer taken.

Plating or not if your car weighs 2000kgs then you plus tack/water/equpment what another 2000kgs, then you have however much diedel is in the tank added to the weight say full tank so another 50kgs plus then the trailer lightest I could find was 700kgs leaves you with 2950+kgs so would really be skimming the plate thin for horse, hay etc.

I did it for 2 years on the above beliefs and I crapped myself everytime I passed a weighing station and eventually I just found it wasnt worth it.

Nikki :)
 
NiknKia said:
Great minds and all that eh??? :D
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I'd love to say yes but then it seemed like the only obvious thing for me to do given that I have 2 of the beggars now and one day I might, shock horror, want both of them on the trailer at once!

On the other hand, because I spent nearly a grand on learning (because I'm useless and failed first time!) I now have an absolute pittance with which to buy a trailer. For pittance read nothing. Grrr.. At least I'll be legal when I get one though :D
 
LOL, I have NOT read all your replies!! This subject always gets people very confused!!!

The cheval liberte lightest trailer is a single with an unladen weight of 655Kg, the laden/MAM of it is 1400Kg giving you a payload of 745Kg, now depending on the size/weight of your horse you will need I'd say at least 100Kg to play with for things like tack, hay, bedding, water etc possibly more (never weighed the lot together!) so say 150Kg so already you can only take a horse that weighs 595Kg. Unless you put all tack, water, hay in the car instead, which will give you a little more weight available in the trailer. Anyway your trailer mam is 1400Kg (i don't think you'll get away with downrating it as the payload is pretty low already, unless it's a pony you have...

So to the tow vehicle:... you would need a tow vehicle that has an unladen weight of over 1400Kg but a gross weight of less that 2.1 tonnes, which rules out the pajero I believe......

And just to qualify the law here it is copy/pasted from direct.gov

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, AND THE COMBINATION DOES NOT EXCEED 3.5 TONNES MAM. (so total weight (MAM) must not exceed 3.5 tonnes)
 
Category
Description
Minimum age

B
Motor vehicles with a MAM of up to 3,500 kg, no more than eight passenger seats, with or without a trailer - weighing no more than 750 kg
17*

B
As category B but with a trailer weighing more than 750 kg. The total weight of the vehicle and the trailer together can’t weigh more than 3,500 kg. The weight of the trailer, when fully loaded, can’t weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle
17*

The above is straight off the DVLA Website.Not a mention of manufacturers plates .Its purely done on the physical weights.
 
ok so if I have a 14hh middle weight cob, and bought a cheval liberty trailer weighing 655kg what cars/ 4x4s could I legally tow it with?
 
Re the towing of a car and trailer making a combination weight of 3.5tonnes, yes you can. Hopefully the below e-mail response that I got from the DVLA will clarify for everyone:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: drivers.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk [mailto:drivers.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk]
Sent: 11 May 2009 16:58
To: Kitt, Alex
Subject: RE: Towing license query


Thank you for your email.

I am sorry for the delay in replying to your email. We are currently experiencing technical difficulties resulting in delayed receipt of emails.

However, I can confirm that as the holder of a full Category B licence, you are able to tow the following combinations:

If your car weighs less than 3.5 tonnes maximum authorised mass (MAM) you are able to drive a combination weight of 3.5 tonnes (i.e. car of 2.5 tonnes and a trailer of 1 tonne). In this instance the laden weight of the trailer must not exceed the weight of the towing vehicle.

If your car weighs exactly 3.5 tonnes MAM you are able to tow a small trailer of 750kgs.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Mrs Z Coates
www.direct.gov.uk/motoring


As it happens, I did my trailer test anyway, and pleased that I did for peace of mind, plus I am now not restricted so much. I was originally looking at getting a cheval liberte single and having it downgraded to 1200kgs to tow with my older Rav 4 which has a braked towing capicty of 1500kgs....but then I got a larger horse so it would never have worked!!
 
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