Help, Vet has recommended euthanasia

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MaxSP

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Hi, I have not posted on her before, in fact not posted anywhere before, just hopeing for a bit of advice. I have a Shetland, don't know his age but the vet thinks he is still young, I have had him 4 years, so he is probably around 8 or 9. He came to me in a bad state, I have never owned a horse, he and his friend a welsh section A had been abandoned and it was me or the meat man so it ended us as me. Anyway, he was very underweight, with lice and was untouchable, 4 years on and he is a lovely little chap, but he has always had problems with his feet, he also gets laminitis at the drop of a hat. The last few months he has been stiff on his front left leg. he would wake up in the morning and stretch it out and be stiff on it for a hour or so but then sort it self out. With his problems with laminitis I thought it might of been than so kept he away from grass etc. recently it got a lot worse so called the vet. She was here for 10 mins and said its arthritis and prescribed Meticam for a week. It has made no difference and he can,t seem to straighten his leg and can take no weight on it at all. he puts it down from time to time for balance but not often. rang the vet today and she has told be he has to be put to sleep. I was so shocked. he was running around fine a few months ago. The vet has said there is no point in exrays it won't help, also he wouldn't be able to get to the vets as he wouldn't be able to balance in the horse box. I have asked if we can try anything else, give him some time, stable rest extra, but she said no, and it's now a welfare issue, in her opinion he needs to be pts. He does have a problem getting about, but he is happy, still has a roll and enjoys his food etc. He gets by and looks happy enough. I just can't see how I can give up on him this quick, other than his leg, he appears to be his usual self. He is just a pet, never ridden, and he gets the best of everything. What do I do, get him pts on a 10 Min inspection by the vet, or give him some time. The vet seemed to suggest that i would be breaching welfare issues, she said it was because he might get the same problem in his other leg and that would't be something they couldn't allow to happen. But his other leg seems fine, if it does spread into his other leg, then obviously something would have to be done, but why now. Sorry I know this is a long one, just hopeing someone out there might have gone through them same thing and have some words of wisdom. thank you in advance.
 
sorry you are in this position, as far as i am concerned quality of life is the most important thing and if he is very uncomfortable and nothing can be done then im afraid you may have to PTS. but if he was mine i would get a second opinion from another vet and then make a decision... good luck
 
I know this likely is not the answer you are going to want to hear but.....a horse on three legs is not a horse with good quality of life. It is very likely that he will get what is called mechanical laminitis in his other legs caused by the increased strain from trying to balance on three as opposed to 4 legs. In some cases making the call a day early is much better than a day to late.

However as he has had little diagnostics ie xrays etc you should try to seek a second opinion of a experienced equine vet and do a work up to find out exactly what is causing his issues, unfortuanatly as your vet pointed out travelling a 3 legged animal may be an issue and cause the poor boy more issues so you may be looking at trying to get someone to come out to you.....although it sounds like a long term problem that has seriously deteriorated there could be another underlying cause as well as his arthritis. But down this route be prepared to work out a lot of money seeking down a diagnosis that may have the same final result..... or result in a long term medical treatment just to keep him comfortable.

But keeping a horse on 3 legs,however happy he may seem in himself at the minute, without seeking more answers or treating him to the extent he can weightbear either now or in the foreseeable is NOT an realistic or fair option to the little man and yes it would be a be a genuine welfare case. :(

Im sorry as he sounds like a wonderful little lad .
 
If you want to get to the bottom of this, with a view to treating your pony, then you should ask your practice for further diagnostics, and seek a second opinion/referral ASAP if they are not forthcoming. It is difficult to say what is wrong with him from the details you have given, and it seems that your vet cannot be conclusively certain either. Non-weight bearing lameness is a serious condition, an as others have said, it is unethical to keep a pony in this condition indefinitely, but assuming his condition is stable there is no reason why other investigations could not be done.
 
While non-weight bearing lameness is extremely serious your vet's advice seems a bit hurried and odd. For a start there are portable x-ray machines, the pony would not need to travel anywhere.

I would get a second opinion from an experienced equine vet asap. Some extreme lamenesses are actually relatively simple things like abscesses.
 
I would find a good equine vet with hospital facilities. Transport is possible using slings, some companies offer this service. If you post what part of the country you are in someone may be able to recommend both.

Definately worth more investigation, but it wont be cheap.
 
Work up will be expensive - you will need a minimum of £250 - 300 to allow for x rays and possibly a great deal more than that. If your pony is non weight bearing then it warrants work up ASAP or if you do not have the funds for work up then euthanasia. Sounds like this hasn't just come on suddenly do totally understand why the bet is sYing it's a welfare issue. You don't have much experience of horses so perhaps you are not aware that 3 legged lameness is a sign of suffering and therefore can not be allowed to continue indefinitely.
 
Just to add, of he can't straighten his leg which can result from not using it due to pain then that alone warrants euthanasia.
 
You need to ask for a second opinion. However, as many people have said, it seems a bit odd that your vet has made this recommendation so speedily. But you need to be ruthlessly honest with yourself. There are many posts on H&H detailing instances where owners have felt that the vet is recommending treatment after treatment and investigation after investigation for no good reason. Could it be that your vet is being brutally honest in that a whole array of tests could be thrown at your pony but the result would be the same but would cost you £thousands? Do your circumstances run to that, if the result would be the same? I'm guessing the pony is uninsured. As others have said, a pony on 3 legs and non weight bearing on the 4th leg is a welfare issue.
 
Oh dear, this is a difficult position for you, but one that needs a quick response. I have sympathy with the vet, he/she has seen laminitis a lot this year and knows how chronically painful it is, and how difficult it is to treat successfully. It takes meticulous care from the owner, drugs and superb foot trimming, possibly hoof support as well.

To advise you whether the vet was right in their advice you'd have to know the pony, and its history and your facilities/ability to care for it in the short and long term (its no use recovering it, if you can't sustain the right environment for a chronic laminitic to stay free of the disease), hence the erring on PTS being kindest.

photos of the ponies feet from the side/solar view would help us advise you. How often has he been trimmed? These ponies need trimming every 3 weeks in the early stages to help them cope, I trimmed one a week ago, before it couldn't lock its knees and was effectively standing on tiptoes, afterwards it locked both knees and looks so much more comfortable and is making good improvement with superb care from the owner.

It ain't easy but it can be done.
 
I can only echo the others that a chronically lame horse - to this extent - has no reasonable quality of life. Horses are flight animals. They know they need to be able to run to survive. When they can't run they are only waiting to die.

The reccommendation to Pts looks quick - but may well not be unreasonable. Further diagnostics etc will be very expensive and you need to balence that against the possibility of actually turning up something you can treat. It may not help much to know that it is incurable arthritis and pts then anyway.

You do need to know you did all you could for him. And if your resources extend to being able to have extensive tests done then absolutely you can do that. But at the heart of all of this has to be his welfare.

I think it is probably true of most if not all of us. We often wait a day too long to do the right thing by our beloved freinds. We need to be sure that we have explored everything. But in the end our ultimate responsibility is to ensure a quick and stress free death when the time comes. Very few of us are priviledged enough to have our horses die in thier sleep. Most have to face this decsion at some point. My heart goes out to you.
 
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Booboos said:
While non-weight bearing lameness is extremely serious your vet's advice seems a bit hurried and odd. For a start there are portable x-ray machines, the pony would not need to travel anywhere.

I would get a second opinion from an experienced equine vet asap. Some extreme lamenesses are actually relatively simple things like abscesses.
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Ditto!! Frankly, any vet who recommends PTS on the basis that 'arthritis' (if that's what it is) doesn't respond to a week of Metacam, WITHOUT offering further diagnostics, is irresponsible.
 
Janetgeorge - without OFFERING further diagnostics perhaps, but with no response topain relief, a novice owner with little knowledge of how to care for a horse AND I suspect ( apologies if I'm wrong) very limited finances available - a recommendation to euthanase is justifiable. However, further diagnostics must be offered. Should the owner not be able to give evidence of ability to pay then euthanasia is a very justifiable " treatment".
 
I would say that on three legs or not it is too early to kill a pony who willingly lies down and rolls and gets back up again.

Horses that are ready to die either don't lie down for fear of not being able to get up again or lie down to stay down.

OP you need to find at least £500 and a vet with a portable xray machine and get a proper diagnosis of what is wrong with your pony.

Does he have any external lumps and bumps on that leg that are not there on the other leg? Is there heat anywhere? Can you straighten his leg for him, or is it locked bent? If you can straighten it, can you also bend it? Is there any reason known why a pony that small, that young, who has never done any joint stressing work would get arthritis?

Just to finish off though, if you can't find at least £500 to diagnose and treat whatever is wrong with him, you really must have him put to sleep, because you can't keep a horse on three legs long term. He is already a laminitis risk, and horses that stand long term on only one foreleg or hind leg very often experience a complete breakdown of the foot on the good leg. You can't allow that to happen to him :(
 
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I agree with pretty much every poster above, if it was me I would find a vet who has access to a portable xray machine before I decided to PTS. It could be something very treatable, or on the other hand your vet may be totally right. But by xraying before PTS at least you can put your mind to rest you did everything in your power, I wish you all the best.
 
follow the advice of booboos and janet george, i can't see how a definite diagnosis can be made without further investigation, you are also entitled to a second opinion, i would always ask for one in serious circumstances.
 
Booboos said:
While non-weight bearing lameness is extremely serious your vet's advice seems a bit hurried and odd. For a start there are portable x-ray machines, the pony would not need to travel anywhere.

I would get a second opinion from an experienced equine vet asap. Some extreme lamenesses are actually relatively simple things like abscesses.
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You cannot run any portable xray machine from a generator - even with an interrupter eliminator attached. Believe me I researched this when I needed to xray my laminitic mare. They have to be powered by mains electric.
 
I think you should phone the vet NOW and relay your worries, it may have seemed like he was too quick to write off, but it may have been that he felt there was no room for discussion, and may have felt you were looking for a solution that was not practical/possible.
We all rely on the vet when it is out of our experience.
A pony that cannot stand on four legs, something needs to be done, and soon. Did the vet bandage it?
I saw such a thing on a yard I was at, owner was in tears when she realised the outcome meant pts, she chose shooting, so poor thing had to hop out of stabling to the lorry, as far as I know it, it had no Sedalin, only one vet visit, and that after three days, the vet did not bandage it. The whole thing was avoidable, it had not seen a farrier for ever and a day, and eventually pulled ligaments.
 
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Firstly, you are not giving up on this pony as you have given it 4 years of love and affection in a safe home. Your responsilbilities extend now to making sure you give your pony a dignified end and not prolonging it for selfish reasons. These decisions are never easy but please don't think you are letting him down, as you are meerly setting him free........
 
I would be asking more questions from my vet and if they don't give me I would search for a new vet.



  1. Is the pony living out full time winter
  2. is his coat long
  3. does he wear a rug
  4. does he have joint supplements
  5. where is the arthritis

He is a young animal and if he is happy in himself I would not PTS at this time.

Surpass has got a good reputation for improving the pain with arthritis
http://www.smartpakequine.com/surpass-topical-cream-2716p.aspx.

Without actually being in your situation and knowing the pony first hand its easy for the PTS to be said as the only option. But we don't know first hand the situation only what you tell us.

I would do EVERYTHING humanely possible before the last outcome was the only option.


As an example my big dun mare 16 hh was bought at the age of 14.

Underweight (bordering emaciated) not worked for many years feet :mad::eek::eek::eek:
mossy47.jpg


she could not get up after a roll without almost going A** over T*T many times falling forward walking like sheep doing when they graze on their knees.

We put her on flexijoint problem gone.

don't give up yet there are many things like acupuncture aromatherapy water therapy etc to try first.:)
 
Leviathan said:
Without actually being in your situation and knowing the pony first hand its easy for the PTS to be said as the only option. But we don't know first hand the situation only what you tell us.

I would do EVERYTHING humanely possible before the last outcome was the only option.



don't give up yet there are many things like acupuncture aromatherapy water therapy etc to try first.:)
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Everything humanly possible, on a horse that is standing on three legs........ is not a solution many people would choose, particularly if the vet has told the owner it should be PTS, I hope the poor thing is no longer suffering, sorry if the owner is very upset, but if she does not do something and pony continues to suffer she is risking prosecution.
 
Miss L Toe said:
Everything humanly possible, on a horse that is standing on three legs........ is not a solution many people would choose, particularly if the vet has told the owner it should be PTS, I hope the poor thing is no longer suffering, sorry if the owner is very upset, but if she does not do something and pony continues to suffer she is risking prosecution.
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Just because a vet said PTS after 10 mins diagnoses and prescribes drugs without any of the below would make me question if I wanted to keep this vet .,:rolleyes:
  1. What exam was done ?
  2. Where are the xrays
  3. where is the proof on how bad it is
  4. where are the scans
  5. Could it be in the foot or elsewhere

    There are a number of lameness and reasons that could be causing this, it could be and If my vet did not even do an x ray sheesh how can you know what is going on withing the leg and prescribe drugs on a quick 109 min visit.
Most insurance would want a detailed reason and proof why horse needed to be PTS.

OP I would ask for a second opinion and insist on an xray.

There is always the option of nerve blocking the foot for him to travel IMO it would be worth it. At least then you can see the x rays for yourself as to the problem's severity and diagnoses.
 
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Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond, It's greatly appreciated. The vet practice I have used is apparently the best in my area so I have rang them and spoken to another vet at the practice, after a few phone calls back and forth he is now booked In for Friday for X-rays and an MRI scan if required. I get the impression that the first vet was perhaps giving me an easy way out, knowing he was just an animal I took on, and have no actual use for, but he knows differently know. In the end, he may well be right, but i have to give him a chance. i asked about a mobil X-ray but they said it may take more than a few X-rays so it would be wise to bring him in, also because they think it's his knee it may be tricky to cover all the angles on a mobile machine as they have to take them back to process them etc. I don't have insurance or pots of money but he will get what ever he needs, who needs holidays anyway, very overrated! I spent the weekend watching him to see if it's just my wishfully thinking that he is happy, but I belive that he truly is, as best he can be with a gamy leg. By all accounts he has had a terrible start in life and he seems not to expect much from it, he is happy to potter, he still enjoys a good roll and is as I type grooming his best mate. thinking back to when we first got him my farrier thought he had joint problems then, due to the length of his feet when we got him, it took a lot of work by the farrier to get them sorted. But he does have tiny feet, they do not splay out like other horses they are the same width from top to bottom and he looks like a Balarina when they are trimmed. He bends his leg no problem and is happy for me to do it, but he can't seem to lock it straight, it seems he can't put any weight on it, he puts it down only when he is in his stable, but even then it doesn't look like its locked straight. Its not hot, and does not look swollen, perhaps slightly, but it does not feel swollen. The vet put tweaser like things on his foot and he showed no discomfort, he moved his leg with no obviouse pain, but he flinched twice when he pinched the back of his knee. i think he would get by on three legs, but clearly this puts far to much strain on his other legs and that can only end badly. Also as he has had such a tough life, he may be hiding his pain well. But what ever happens, as a few of you have said, I need to know i have done all I can for him. Thanks for your advice. fingers crossed.
 
So, after one vet tells you that he is not fit to travel, another vet, who presumably still has not seen the animal tells you to bring it in for X-rays and possible MRI, all very weird.
I did advise you to get back to the vet in my first posting on the matter, but I would expect them to send another vet out to see if in fact it is fit to travel. Has this matter not been raised?
You should ask for an estimate, it could be a lot of money if it goes to an MRI, vet livery alone is pretty expensive, I know a horse who had a lot of problems, it cost over £6, 000, to sort that out, plus ongoing drugs, then a year later, there were more problems, no more insurance.
 
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MaxSP said:
Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond, It's greatly appreciated. The vet practice I have used is apparently the best in my area so I have rang them and spoken to another vet at the practice, after a few phone calls back and forth he is now booked In for Friday for X-rays and an MRI scan if required. I get the impression that the first vet was perhaps giving me an easy way out, knowing he was just an animal I took on, and have no actual use for, but he knows differently know. In the end, he may well be right, but i have to give him a chance. i asked about a mobil X-ray but they said it may take more than a few X-rays so it would be wise to bring him in, also because they think it's his knee it may be tricky to cover all the angles on a mobile machine as they have to take them back to process them etc. I don't have insurance or pots of money but he will get what ever he needs, who needs holidays anyway, very overrated! I spent the weekend watching him to see if it's just my wishfully thinking that he is happy, but I belive that he truly is, as best he can be with a gamy leg. By all accounts he has had a terrible start in life and he seems not to expect much from it, he is happy to potter, he still enjoys a good roll and is as I type grooming his best mate. thinking back to when we first got him my farrier thought he had joint problems then, due to the length of his feet when we got him, it took a lot of work by the farrier to get them sorted. But he does have tiny feet, they do not splay out like other horses they are the same width from top to bottom and he looks like a Balarina when they are trimmed. He bends his leg no problem and is happy for me to do it, but he can't seem to lock it straight, it seems he can't put any weight on it, he puts it down only when he is in his stable, but even then it doesn't look like its locked straight. Its not hot, and does not look swollen, perhaps slightly, but it does not feel swollen. The vet put tweaser like things on his foot and he showed no discomfort, he moved his leg with no obviouse pain, but he flinched twice when he pinched the back of his knee. i think he would get by on three legs, but clearly this puts far to much strain on his other legs and that can only end badly. Also as he has had such a tough life, he may be hiding his pain well. But what ever happens, as a few of you have said, I need to know i have done all I can for him. Thanks for your advice. fingers crossed.
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You sound like a very concerned, caring owner. However please be aware that this could run to several thousand pounds. Make sure you tell them what your maximum limit is and don't let them go over it. Good luck, I hope it's nothing serious.
 
I would ring another vets practise who have a more advanced portable xray machine. I have recently used one on a fractured splint and my 2nd opinion vet brought out the most advanced equipment with laptop so images could be seen immediately. I think the xrays cost £130 and he took 6 shots. :)
 
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