Help WHITE LINE DISEASE

Roasted Chestnuts

Roasted Chestnuts

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Kia has WLD at the mo. No idea how he has got it so any info would be appreciated as tio the cause and how I can prevent it.

He gets his hooves cleaned at least 4/5 times a week (when they are picked out so i can check them) with disinfectant and he is out 24/7 so no smelly bedding etc and gets the hoof supplement Sequim (sp?)and farrier has been pleased with his hooves up until a week or so ago when the hoof wall collapsed and a hole appeared.

Farrier dug this out and cleaned it and advised I spray with bactakill everyday for a week then every second day.

So will this get rid of it and how do I prevent it comiong back. A friend has suggested it might be to do with the glut of cow crop they got last week.....would this affect it???

Nikki xxxx
 
My advice would be to read barefoot info for this. My understanding is that it is a sign of poor/weak connection of the lamina which 'bugs' then invade, so treating the infection is only part of the 'cure', the reason why the lamina are not healthy and strong needs to be addressed. Diet, magagement etc. are major factors from what I've learned. Here's a link to a 2005 article for an over view. You may need to remove shoes for a long term solution, but I've found soaking feet weekly is a big help.
http://www.hoofrehab.com/end_of_white_line_disease.htm#Whiteline

I believe once the lamina are destroyed by infection they cannot regenerate so it's a case of keeping infection at bay until good hoof wall connection grows down.

Here's another link http://www.unshod.co.uk/ Look in articles at healthy hooves for an overview.
 
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hi, sorry i'm short of time to do a long reply but try not to worry, i battled for years with this with a pony - we tried all sorts of lotions and potions and the backakill 55 was the only thing that solved it!
i also started to feed D&H sure foot supplement.
i am sure your horse will be fine as it sounds as if you and your farrier are on top of it x
 
I battled this for a while with my horse, the key is keeping the hooves as clean and healthy as possible, its a viscous circle 'bugs' (and I say bugs as its not completly understood yet if its bacterial/fungal bugs) enter through cracks, nail holes ect live off dead hoof tissue to survive this in turn leads to further hoof damage and dead hoof tissue and in turn produces more food for the bugs so its a case of breaking this cycle. I have found that some anti bacterials will not work as you need an anti fungal ingrediant as well as, also you need to try and avoid products that are harsh on the hooves and will kill not only the bugs but healthy hoof tissue they come into contact with, thus producing dead tissue to feed any bugs left, these are treatments like bleech and hydrogen proxcide.

Backtakill 55 is anti fungal and bacterial so it should work well but you have to make sure the feet are cleaned throughly before appliying so it can penatrate into the nail holes and cracks to work. Either scrub clean will cold water or I found tubbing my horses feed in a solution of cold water and baby sterilising fluid (anti fungal/bateriala and virial) then scrubing clean and appllying backtakill worked wonders!! It shouldn't be too difficult to get rid.

I would also recommend thinking about your feeding and maybe adding a supplement to keep the hooves healthy to try avoid excessive cracking and crumbling of the hoof in the first place.
 
Thank you lots of helpful advice there!!!

I will start soaking his feet before spraying I was just washing them with hibiscrub/savlon then srpaying on the bactakill and letting soak in a bit befiore putting the offt down. The hole is near the bottom of his hoof do you think it will track up???

Nikki xxxx :)
 
I used to have one with this.....blinking nightmare! My best suggestion is to keep hooves as dry as possible...I know you say yours lives out,as mine did,but I had to bring in when wet in the end to allow hooves to dry out. Get farrier to dig out as much as he can so you can regularly clean out. A tooth brush dipped in hibiscrub solution is best. Then apply iodine or purple spray.

The key to it improving though is to keep feet as dry as possible. This condition is also known as seedy toe or foot rot..
 
The key to improving/eliminating WLD is to address diet! Wet conditions exercerbate the condition providing an environment in which bacteria/fungus thrive but wet conditions are not the cause! My horses live out 24/7, often in very wet conditions and do not get WLD. I have explained further in Veterinary but it is diet related, too much sugar, inflammation of laminae etc...
 
obviously diet in this day and age is a relevent factor. There are many hoof supplements on the market that improve feet which contain biotin.

I think treating as a laminitic is rather drastic,and comparing domesticated horses in wet boggy paddocks to those on the moors with access to roads,rubble paths and lack of rich grazing is an easy thing to do.

You stand a horse/pony in constantly wet ground and then dry out hooves in intense midday heat....it is bound to soften and damage them.

WLD is a disease of the white line NOT laminae.....although in some cases it can be an indicator of laminitis.

I would dry feet where at all possible.....
 
Cazza525 said:
WLD is a disease of the white line NOT laminae.....although in some cases it can be an indicator of laminitis.

QUOTE]

Just out of interest - what do you think the white line is?

You have sensitive laminae which become insenitive laminae in the bottom cm or so of the hoof. These insenitive laminae are what we see as the white line!
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This is the foot in question :)

DSC04947.jpg

DSC04950.jpg


Nikki xxx
 
It is hard to tell from these photos, but it looks a lot like the hoof has a bull nose which the farrier has tried to rasp out. It appears that the outer hoof wall has been heavily thinned at the bottom which is not going to help much.

The bull nose is usually an indication of a laminitic type problem - made worse by the trimming/shoeing technique employed.

Next time that shoe comes off, observe carefully both before, during and after trimming before the shoe goes back on and you will get a better idea if you have a stretched white line.

Have a look at: http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/lameness-removing-shoes-case-study.html
 
My horse actually had a very similar thing, originally caused by a split in his hoof which he sustained out hacking. I can show you the photos if you like, they are on my other phone, but could email you if you pm me. Because there was a split, from the nail hole to the shoe, it was hard to clean and infection crept in. The farrier resected back a chunk and dug out the infection. I then had to scrub the area every day, then get a farriers nail and actually scrape out the hole so that every single bit of dirt and grit was out, completely clean. Then follow that up with a spray of footmaster and once a week, instead of the footmaster, syringe in Hydrogen Peroxide 6%.
I used vaseline or cornucresine or effol moisteriser around the rest of the hoof as the hoofmaster can be quite drying.

This did clear it up and eventually the hoof grew down and the damaged area was paired away during his regular shoeing. Took about a year of religous cleaning though.

You can also get in behind the shoe from underneath and scrape any grit out with your farriers nail and direct the spray down there as well.

It'll be much easier for you if the farrier puts on quarter clips, rather than a toe clip. Quarter clips will support that damage fromthe sides and allow you better access to clean. A toe clip will just harbour dirt and could actually force that to seperate into a crack.

You'll also need a head torch so you can see to get right in there. My stable mats will forever more have purple splodges, but it was worth it.

F x
 
And don't stress too much about laminitis if your horse is healthy and showing no other symptoms.

Primary causes of WLD include damp conditions, poor or improper trimming or shoeing, conformation or trauma (as with mine),

WLD disease is often seen as a secondary condition to laminits, and quite often it's the WLD that is spotted before or together with other symptoms of lami, which is why people link the two so closely.

There are on people on here who preach very very stongly their views about barefoot horses, diet, trimming and shoeing etc. Best to do your own research, make up your own mind take advice from good recommended professionals with real qualifications and training.

Asides from any advice you see on here, you should research the symptoms of laminitis yourself, carefully so that you know the signs and you know your horses feet so well that you will spot any changes.
To say every horse with WLD is on the verge of laminitis is rubbish, but in some cases, the two may occur together, so you need to be knowlegable, know the signs, know your horse and pay attention to every detail.

WLD is perfectly treatable, even in a shod horse.
 
I have been doing research I ahve been at it most of the night trying to find a definative link between WLD nd Lami. He has never had Lami not eve LGL as hasnt been lame shod or not so i was looking for the signs that he was going to go lame. i try ot keep him in enough work and obviously monitor him.

If this was last year I honestly wouldnt have worried about him with Lami as normally he look rather lean even in the same or less amount of work this year tho i seem to ahve cracked his weight issues (long may it continue) due you think that fact that he used to be soo lean looking have affected his hooves even if he was getting a hoof supp???

Nikki xxxx
 
It's far more helpful that in America then call laminitis founder... I wish we did the same here, as people hear the word laminitis and automatically think their horse will be crippled lame, rocked back on his heels etc etc. All the word laminitis means is inflammaiton of the laminae and that inflammation can be acute and severe and result in what most people understand as laminitis or can be mild and transitory. Not every headache I get is a migraine, sometimes it's just a mild pain that goes quickly. Some tendon injuries are severe and some are very mild. So why can't you have mild inflammation of the laminae without it ever turning into acute laminitis? Of course you can. A healthy foot will not get WLD - even if living on wet ground. My own horses are testament to this. In fact I have more trouble with touches of WLD disease in the summer when the grass is growing.

Just out of interest - how do people think those rings round the hooves develop? What is the physiological process behind them?

NiknKia - if he is cereal intolerant then this is a metabolic issue... weight is not always a factor in laminitis. Horses with Cushings get laminitis at the drop of a hat yet you may be able to see their ribs. I'm absolutely not saying that your horse is about to go lame or get acute laminitis but he clearly has dietary issues, stemming from his cereal intolerance. Has he been blood tested?
 
mrdarcy said:
NiknKia - if he is cereal intolerant then this is a metabolic issue... weight is not always a factor in laminitis. Horses with Cushings get laminitis at the drop of a hat yet you may be able to see their ribs. I'm absolutely not saying that your horse is about to go lame or get acute laminitis but he clearly has dietary issues, stemming from his cereal intolerance. Has he been blood tested?
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Extensively it cost me a lot of money as wasnt an illness or injury do insurance wouldnt pay out.

He got much better on a vet assisted diet which I have stuck to for years now. I just have to extensively read the back of packets of feed and get samples of ew stuff from companies i am on several mailing lists lol!!!

At the moment for maintenance he is on alphalfa and a low cereal nut with beetpulp, his hoof supp and general supp, he gets a low cereal conditioning cube added i he loses weight and oil added to his diet. He hasnt had a feed now for over a month except for a handful of chaff for is supplements daily.

Nikki xxx
 
Nikki, your horse may have WLD due to a cause completely unrelated to diet.

It's worth researching the other causes before you start worrying too much and assess what the cause and treatment might be for your horse.

Aside from that, Laminitis & WLD are two completely separate conditions. They are not a symptom or a cause of one another.

WLD caused by poor nutrition, could be seen as a warning light, as that same poor nutrition could potentially lead to laminitis, but the WLD won't cause lami.

WLD is often found in a laminitic foot due to the conditions in the foot that laminitis creates. but it's not caused by lami.

My horse is a testement to the fact that WLD can be caused by something other than diet and treated easily with no change to his diet or routine.

I have been directly involved in the care of 2 other horses with severe WLD, one directly due to poor trimming and the other triggered by diet changes and not detected therefore, exacerbated by trimming and lack of treatment. None of these horses ever had or has since shown the slightest hint of laminitis.

You need to do the research and decide what the probable cause was for your horse and whether you can treat topically. or whether your WLD has taken root due to a more serious underlying problem like lami, or whether your horses nutrition still needs further developed while you treat topically.
 
Baileyhoss said:
Nikki, your horse may have WLD due to a cause completely unrelated to diet.

It's worth researching the other causes before you start worrying too much and assess what the cause and treatment might be for your horse.

Aside from that, Laminitis & WLD are two completely separate conditions. They are not a symptom or a cause of one another.

WLD caused by poor nutrition, could be seen as a warning light, as that same poor nutrition could potentially lead to laminitis, but the WLD won't cause lami.

WLD is often found in a laminitic foot due to the conditions in the foot that laminitis creates. but it's not caused by lami.

My horse is a testement to the fact that WLD can be caused by something other than diet and treated easily with no change to his diet or routine.

I have been directly involved in the care of 2 other horses with severe WLD, one directly due to poor trimming and the other triggered by diet changes and not detected therefore, exacerbated by trimming and lack of treatment. None of these horses ever had or has since shown the slightest hint of laminitis.

You need to do the research and decide what the probable cause was for your horse and whether you can treat topically. or whether your WLD has taken root due to a more serious underlying problem like lami, or whether your horses nutrition still needs further developed while you treat topically.
Click to expand...

Thanks BH.

I have researched lami and I am fairly certain he doesnt have that even went so far as to call vets. They think its localised and due to a crck and the nail holes, farrier thinks this as well and has told e to treat it the way i ahve been advised then if it doesnt clear up to look at diets.

When you see people throwing round that yournhorse has lami it immediately sets off alarm bells ;)

Nikki xxxx:)
 
It does indeed,

If you decide to treat topically have a look at my earlier post above for the treatment plan that worked for me. patience and dedication and an old toothbrush and farriers nail is the key :(

There is a good farrier on here, can't remember the name, maybe TheFarrier? he has a photo of himself shoeing in his avatar. Might be worth emailing photos to him to ask for comment on the shoeing. Going on the photo alone, I'm still not convinced a toe clip is helping, but obviously I'm not an expert in your horses feet :p
 
Try using a mix of pure eucalyptus oil & 10% strong iodine solution, mix 50/50,& shake before applying. Then use an old toothbrush to paint around the nailhole areas on the outside of the foot, & on the sole(plus under the shoe when shod/trimmed). It works incredibly well, & is absorbed quickly. You can also use pipette or syringe to drip it down the old nail holes.
 
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Baileyhoss said:
It does indeed,

If you decide to treat topically have a look at my earlier post above for the treatment plan that worked for me. patience and dedication and an old toothbrush and farriers nail is the key :(

There is a good farrier on here, can't remember the name, maybe TheFarrier? he has a photo of himself shoeing in his avatar. Might be worth emailing photos to him to ask for comment on the shoeing. Going on the photo alone, I'm still not convinced a toe clip is helping, but obviously I'm not an expert in your horses feet :p
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I may get the farrier back out to do quarted clips then.

good tip about the nail tho i will certainly be gouging about with it!!!:)

nikki xxxx
 
Can't really add much to the other advice, except to agree with Baileyhoss to take everything into account, do all your research (which you have been doing) and deal with it accordingly.

Having battled with WLD and a deep central sulcus infection for over a year now, I can offer some advice on how to get whatever you're using to clean into the right place, though. Plastic syringes are handy, but they are a pain as you keep having to put the foot down to go and refill them. And then you end up with an agonisingly sore back and have to start the process again, because helpful horsey has plonked foot down on the dirtiest bit of floor they could find! :rolleyes:

I use one of these:
http://www.sallyexpress.com/viewProduct.aspx?pid=735227

Works wonders ;)
 
To go with Edie's suggestion I would reccomend having whatever you are syringing in a small bucket/bowl next to your foot and practice pulling the plunger back up one handed before you pick up the hoof so you can refill without putting the hoof down.
 
Lillith, sounds like you also speak from experience. Great fun, isn't it? :D

I find the tinting bottle thingie really useful, though. The nozzle's small enough to get into the tiniest cracks and gaps and you only have to fill the blooming thing once.
 
I'm going to be really smug here & tell you i managed to train my horse to rest his hoof up on an upturned bucket while I scrubbed, picked and zapped away. I could therefore still manage myself when I had my broken arm. He's quite a co-operative chap though.
 
Ooh, good idea. Bet I could do it with a bit of clicker training.

I'd probably need something sturdier than an upturned bucket though, my boy has absolute dinner plates for feet - he's unshod and I remember looking for hoof boots for him for hacking. Unfortunately none of the well known makes go up to 9.5-10 inches across!
 
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He will stand in a bucket of water????

Could I soak the hole in a solution??? He will happily stand in a small tubtrug with wamr water in it or disinfectant. I taught him this when he injured his leg a few years ago and I have used it frequently for cleaning feet (how lazy am I lol)

WOuld that help??

Nikki xxx :)
 
we almost lost a pony last year with this in the extreme!! All four feet were involved he was almost unable to walk..had had lammi and was wearing plastic shoe's.. which rotted his front feet and back shoes had it under them as well...he was on i do on livery...he was very well cared for but it still got in.the lammi had just left his hoof wall so weak...it got to the stage the vets were talking about putting him down.. but we were able to talk the owners into letting him have 6mths to see what we could do...so the long suffering farrier and myself worked our our socks off to do what we could...he had all his shoes removed feet trimmed as hard back as we dared and he was thrown out in bare paddock 24/7 as much as we could...watching out for lammi...and stress...also the moment it rained he has to stay in- the dry was so important in the whole programme...his feet were scrubbed, allowed to dry then a foul smelling liquard from the vets applied up to 4 times a day for 6 weeks then twice a day for a month to finally once a day...his feet fell apart to the point that we could see his lammi layer and two thirds of the wall broke away...but it did grow back slowly but much stronger then he had ever had.....he is now back in solid work keeping front shoes on...and fully healed....his owners are so thrilled...he is just one of the ponys who was worth the work and time and hard graft paid off...
just keep the feet as dry as you can and talk to the vet and farrier together
 
Hi Nikki, it would help rinse off the mud on the outside of the hoof and soften the muck that's in it, but it won't do instead of getting in and scrubbing and picking out the little bits of dirt and gravel, especially if you have a shoe on, you are going to have to scrape out any muck deep in the hole or caught between the shoe and the affected area.

F
 
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