Help WHITE LINE DISEASE

Roasted Chestnuts

Roasted Chestnuts

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Kia has WLD at the mo. No idea how he has got it so any info would be appreciated as tio the cause and how I can prevent it.

He gets his hooves cleaned at least 4/5 times a week (when they are picked out so i can check them) with disinfectant and he is out 24/7 so no smelly bedding etc and gets the hoof supplement Sequim (sp?)and farrier has been pleased with his hooves up until a week or so ago when the hoof wall collapsed and a hole appeared.

Farrier dug this out and cleaned it and advised I spray with bactakill everyday for a week then every second day.

So will this get rid of it and how do I prevent it comiong back. A friend has suggested it might be to do with the glut of cow crop they got last week.....would this affect it???

Nikki xxxx :confused:
 
There has been a lot of odd things with hooves this year.

One of mine has crumbling of the front of one of his hooves and another one has cracking of the heel.

My farrier told me to wash the hoof with soapy water dry well and use the purple spray over the area.
 
Thank you amamda I got that very much appreciated!!!

I am going to try a fairly intense scrubbing regime and continue the bactakill as he has good feet and I dont want them getting ruined by this!!!

Nikki xxx
 
White line disease is almost always due to too much sugar in the diet (can also be caused by illness, drugs). Get the horse's diet right and you will never have white line disease again. It's got nothing to do with standing in wet ground, or not cleaning the feet enough. Who cleans wild horses' feet? But they don't get WLD.

Basically if there is too much sugar in the diet the laminae become inflamed and weak. This allows infection to get in - what we see as WLD. So if you remove the cause of why the laminae become inflamed then the WLD disease will grow out.

Treat your horse as if he has laminitis (the word laminitis means inflammation of the laminae), starvation paddock, soaked hay. Treat the infection by using apple cider vinegar or something like Cleantrax if infection is bad. But if you don't address the initial cause - diet! - you will never get rid, or it will keep returning every time a flush of grass is eaten.
 
mrdarcy said:
White line disease is almost always due to too much sugar in the diet (can also be caused by illness, drugs). Get the horse's diet right and you will never have white line disease again. It's got nothing to do with standing in wet ground, or not cleaning the feet enough. Who cleans wild horses' feet? But they don't get WLD.

Basically if there is too much sugar in the diet the laminae become inflamed and weak. This allows infection to get in - what we see as WLD. So if you remove the cause of why the laminae become inflamed then the WLD disease will grow out.

Treat your horse as if he has laminitis (the word laminitis means inflammation of the laminae), starvation paddock, soaked hay. Treat the infection by using apple cider vinegar or something like Cleantrax if infection is bad. But if you don't address the initial cause - diet! - you will never get rid, or it will keep returning every time a flush of grass is eaten.[/Q

Talk about scaring the poor lass half to death!!
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Actually I agree with MrDarcy... diet is imo probably the main cause of wld,seedy toe or whatever you call it. Second imo is environment... but even then the lamina have to be weakened to be attacked by bugs. Healthy lamina do not generally succumb to infection. Laminitis (inflammation of the lamina) is really a symptom not a disease and along with thrush is a major problem often unrecognised until it becomes acute. Imo wld etc. is a warning sign something isn't 100%.

Here's a link I put in NL http://www.hoofrehab.com/end_of_white_line_disease.htm#Whiteline
 
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I hate to say guys as much as I appreciate your help if I had to treat him like a laminitic he will starve literally :(. He is a VERY poor doer. This year is the only time in the 7/8 years I have had him that he hasnt came out of winter looking like a hat rack and I dont pile feed into him or have him on very lush pasture.

He is cereal intolerant and can only have feed with a small amount of micronised wheat as it doesnt exacerbate his skin or tummy. He doesnt get pumped full of sugar if I had to show you pictures of him last year you would have me done for animal cruelty.

This is why I cannot understand if it has been his escape into the lusk cow crop he was only in there over night so would this short period have caused this so quickly as it was only last week??

Nikki xxx
 
NiknKia said:
I hate to say guys as much as I appreciate your help if I had to treat him like a laminitic he will starve literally :(. He is a VERY poor doer. This year is the only time in the 7/8 years I have had him that he hasnt came out of winter looking like a hat rack and I dont pile feed into him or have him on very lush pasture.

He is cereal intolerant and can only have feed with a small amount of micronised wheat as it doesnt exacerbate his skin or tummy. He doesnt get pumped full of sugar if I had to show you pictures of him last year you would have me done for animal cruelty.

This is why I cannot understand if it has been his escape into the lusk cow crop he was only in there over night so would this short period have caused this so quickly as it was only last week??

Nikki xxx
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We have had a wet summer again.....please don't panic unless your horse goes lame. Hope that helps
 
This is the foot

DSC04950.jpg

DSC04948.jpg


Nikki xxxx
 
You're doing all the right things so don't worry!

The white line bugs are anaerobes (they survive without air) so you've done the right thing by having the area exposed. Keep being vigilant and it'll be fine!

I had a horse that had to have a huge chunk of his hoof removed (up to about 2cm below the coronet - stupid farrier didn't sort it when it started and in my ignorance I trusted his opinion). I just had to keep it clean and the new hoof grew down fine with no problems. My current horse has cr*p feet, some WLD and has hardly any sugar in his diet so I struggle to see how that would impact on him??

Hope it gets sorted soon!!
 
Yet again MrDarcy (An unqualified Barefoot Trimmer) is giving advice.

Look at the site it will give you some information on what WLD is and what causes it and also how to treat it.

WLD is caused by a fungal infection and thrives in wet conditions. With a dry summer and the a wet few weeks, it has been a good base for fungal infections.

http://www.equi-therapy.net/equi-therapy/horse-veterinary/white-line-disease.shtml
 
Well it makes all the difference that he is shod. No matter how much you try to get the bugs exposed to oxygen so that they can't breed, there is always going to be somewhere under the shoe for it to hide and beat you. Almost all horses have white line disease under the shoe to some extent. Every horse I have ever taken the shoes off has had it, so the diet discussion is possibly pointless while your horse has shoes on. Having said that, as a cereal intolerant horse on an already very restricted diet, he might be pretty difficult to get comfortable shoeless.

paulineh I too am unqualified (and not a paid trimmer) but it does not mean that we cannot offer some sensible advice. It would be much more constructive if you could, politely, point out where you think that Mr Darcy, who is generous with her time, might be wrong, than simply to carp that she is unqualified. It is not a legal requirement to be qualified and there are some really good unqualified trimmers.
 
mrdarcy said:
White line disease is almost always due to too much sugar in the diet (can also be caused by illness, drugs). Get the horse's diet right and you will never have white line disease again. It's got nothing to do with standing in wet ground, or not cleaning the feet enough. Who cleans wild horses' feet? But they don't get WLD.

Basically if there is too much sugar in the diet the laminae become inflamed and weak. This allows infection to get in - what we see as WLD. So if you remove the cause of why the laminae become inflamed then the WLD disease will grow out.

Treat your horse as if he has laminitis (the word laminitis means inflammation of the laminae), starvation paddock, soaked hay. Treat the infection by using apple cider vinegar or something like Cleantrax if infection is bad. But if you don't address the initial cause - diet! - you will never get rid, or it will keep returning every time a flush of grass is eaten.
Click to expand...

Vets,farriers and nutritionist speed may years training to do their job and to say that "If you do not address the initial cause DIET you will never get rid of it" is totally wrong.

As there are some horses that get WLD are on a low sugar diet how can it be that sugar is the problem.

If it was the case of the laminitic pony / horse then every Laminitic animal would have WLD.

WLD can also be caused by bad shoeing Or trimming.
 
paulineh said:
Vets,farriers and nutritionist speed may years training to do their job and to say that "If you do not address the initial cause DIET you will never get rid of it" is totally wrong.

As there are some horses that get WLD are on a low sugar diet how can it be that sugar is the problem.

If it was the case of the laminitic pony / horse then every Laminitic animal would have WLD.

WLD can also be caused by bad shoeing Or trimming.
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Please do your reasearch before you shout me down.

Some horses cannot tolerate any amount of sugar - Insulin resistant horses. The OP has already said her horse is cereal intolerant. This is usually because they are insulin resistant. So like with diabetic humans who cannot eat a chocolate bar safely compared to a non diabetic who can eat as much chocolate as they want, some horses can be on what we think is a low sugar diet yet still get the adverse reactions in the foot.

From the photos posted you can clearly see ring after ring growing down the foot - another very typical sign.

I would recommend the OP get in touch with the Metabolic horse group on Yahoo and ask for specific diet advice. There are lots of horses in similar situations to hers.
 
Re rings around the hoof.

I have yet to meet a horse that doesnt have some rings around the hoof and i was led to believe that these can be due to winter/summer grass changes and the obvious changes between hay in winter and grass in summer.

So was i led wrong all these years??? Should my farrier have picked up on the fact that I am now getting told he is a lami case???

I havent heard this from my farrier, who has to shoe him for a deviation he has always had and is very careful with his feet, Only the fronts are shod as he is not comfortable without front shoes.:)

Nikki xxx
 
Are you sure you mean WLD and not seedy toe?

In any case same advice - see if you can reduce the sugars, and that means less grass too.

Mineral balance really important - especially copper/zinc and magnesium

He is cereal intolerant and can only have feed with a small amount of micronised wheat as it doesnt exacerbate his skin or tummy. He doesnt get pumped full of sugar if I had to show you pictures of him last year you would have me done for animal cruelty.
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This is a tough one - but quite solvable. I have a cereal intollerant lad as well - Link gets colic when he has cereals. I have all cereals removed BUT oats in small quntities seem to be OK - it is the wheat, soya , barley and maize that are questionable.

They don't need it anyway - there are alternatives. Think about micronised linseed which will help keep weight on and they look fantastic on it, use fast fibre perhaps, think unmolassed beet as a filler, and a great mineral supplement. Also you can think about feeds such as coolstance copra meal which are all great for poor doers and hoof safe
 
brucea said:
Are you sure you mean WLD and not seedy toe?

In any case same advice - see if you can reduce the sugars, and that means less grass too.

Mineral balance really important - especially copper/zinc and magnesium



This is a tough one - but quite solvable. I have a cereal intollerant lad as well - Link gets colic when he has cereals. I have all cereals removed BUT oats in small quntities seem to be OK - it is the wheat, soya , barley and maize that are questionable.

They don't need it anyway - there are alternatives. Think about micronised linseed which will help keep weight on and they look fantastic on it, use fast fibre perhaps, think unmolassed beet as a filler, and a great mineral supplement. Also you can think about feeds such as coolstance copra meal which are all great for poor doers and hoof safe
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Hi thanks for the info!!

Farrier stated WLD just stating what i was told.

I have been looking into feeds for ages for kia since he was dianosed years ago, we went th=heough hair loss, lumps swellings lameness you name it until wefound stuff that worked. I would love to try the copra mel as everyone raves about it but I am alergic to co**** which is what it is lol.

I have no luck wouldnt you agree lol!!!

Nikki xx
 
NiknKia said:
Re rings around the hoof.

I have yet to meet a horse that doesnt have some rings around the hoof and i was led to believe that these can be due to winter/summer grass changes and the obvious changes between hay in winter and grass in summer.

So was i led wrong all these years??? Should my farrier have picked up on the fact that I am now getting told he is a lami case???

I havent heard this from my farrier, who has to shoe him for a deviation he has always had and is very careful with his feet, Only the fronts are shod as he is not comfortable without front shoes.:)

Nikki xxx
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Nikki barefoot horses don't tend to have growth rings. I have four without a ring between them unless I change something drastic (like one had a tie-back and that did it big-time!) and my friend's horses are all the same. We all graze our horses and we buy in batches of forage, so they have the same changes as everyone else's horses. But we all have pretty much perfected a high fibre low sugar diet and restrict access to the sweetest grass during the afternoon and early evening. We do that to make sure they stay capable of working on stones all year round.

Laminitis is simply inflammation of the laminae, not necessarily some horrific emergency disease. That inflammation can be very slight, but it would mean that a barefoot horse will feel stones, so the owner knows about it. So if we stop that slight inflammation where the owner of a shod horse does not because they don't realise it's there, then the shod horse will get rings and the barefoot one will not.


ps Bruce seedy toe is white line disease at the toe :)
 
cptrayes said:
Nikki barefoot horses don't tend to have growth rings. I have four without a ring between them unless I change something drastic (like one had a tie-back and that did it big-time!) and my friend's horses are all the same. We all graze our horses and we buy in batches of forage, so they have the same changes as everyone else's horses. But we all have pretty much perfected a high fibre low sugar diet and restrict access to the sweetest grass during the afternoon and early evening. We do that to make sure they stay capable of working on stones all year round.

Laminitis is simply inflammation of the laminae, not necessarily some horrific emergency disease. That inflammation can be very slight, but it would mean that a barefoot horse will feel stones, so the owner knows about it. So if we stop that slight inflammation where the owner of a shod horse does not because they don't realise it's there, then the shod horse will get rings and the barefoot one will not.


ps Bruce seedy toe is white line disease at the toe :)
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Ok fair enough :)

Should he have them on his barefoot back feet then???

He does have rings there and he has been barefoot at the back for around two years now!!

Nikki xxx :)
 
Also can be caused by fungal infection of the coronary band where the hoof grows from. Paint affected area with Formaldehyde, or stuff they use for sheep feet, or Coppertox. Wear gloves as all are carcinogenic. For the coronary band, rub some Mi creme into the area and surronding and then use something like cornucrescene to encourage healthy growth.
 
NiknKia said:
Ok fair enough :)

Should he have them on his barefoot back feet then???

He does have rings there and he has been barefoot at the back for around two years now!!

Nikki xxx :)
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I think the point CPTrayes was making is that if a barefoot horse has metabolic problems the symptoms show at a much earlier stage and so can be addressed before they become chronic. So a barefoot horse will get a bit footy over stones and the carer if they spot this can make adjustments to management (usually diet). In this way it is possible to grow a hoof free of rings even if the horse has metabolic problems.

However a horse with metabolic problems which are not addressed even if barefoot may have rings.

I say may have, because I know one horse which is very metabolic, and is still symptomatic, but is being kept 'steady' so although there is inflammation etc it is hard to see it as individual rings. (unless the surface of the hoof is lightly sandpapered).

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/which-one-is-laminitic.html
 
I thought seedy toe and WLD were the same thing too.
Re rings on hooves, all my horses are barefoot and I only have two without any rings. Those two are keep with one who is very prone to laminitis so only soaked hay minimal grass, salt, magnesium supplemented. The three bigger horses all have rings but have access to grazing and have been out 24/7 over summer, they're in now. To me this indicates a strong dietry factor in non metabolic horses.

Best of luck getting him sorted.
 
Ah right thank you i just wasnt getting that point lol!!!

All these links are great it has really fired up my interest I like reading about all these thing and sometimes its hard to sort the trash from the sense. iread one barefoot website and a hoofcare website that said that biotin was useless but if it was why do all the supps have it???

What are peoples thoughts on Seaweed for hooves???

Nikki xxx:)
 
Another link for you! lol http://www.tribeequus.com/trace.html

Book by Nic Barker and Sarah Braithwaite "Feet First" talk a bit about using seaweed as part of the diet. In my understanding the thing is to get the diet as balanced as possible so you need to look at it as a whole, rather than giving one or two extra/different things.
 
ps Bruce seedy toe is white line disease at the toe
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Yes - I know CP - but because it's localised rather than round the hoof the treatment/approach is slightly different and to a degree easier to open up to the air.

Either way it'll be hard to treat quickly/easily with the shoe on - needs fresh air to kill the bacteria.
 
cptrayes said:
Nikki barefoot horses don't tend to have growth rings. I have four without a ring between them unless I change something drastic (like one had a tie-back and that did it big-time!) and my friend's horses are all the same. We all graze our horses and we buy in batches of forage, so they have the same changes as everyone else's horses. But we all have pretty much perfected a high fibre low sugar diet and restrict access to the sweetest grass during the afternoon and early evening. We do that to make sure they stay capable of working on stones all year round.

Laminitis is simply inflammation of the laminae, not necessarily some horrific emergency disease. That inflammation can be very slight, but it would mean that a barefoot horse will feel stones, so the owner knows about it. So if we stop that slight inflammation where the owner of a shod horse does not because they don't realise it's there, then the shod horse will get rings and the barefoot one will not.


ps Bruce seedy toe is white line disease at the toe :)
Click to expand...


Correction - on looking extremely closely today all my horses have shadows of rings on their feet but they can mostly not be felt at all, or only very slightly. With hoof oil on they would disappear completely. So they do show forage changes, but nowhere near the extent that they would if they were allowed uncontrolled grazing.
 
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