Help - will we ever get past this? Dressage woes.

[KikiDee]

I have a wonderful horse I have owned for 2 years.

Now I knew what he was when I bought him, albeit I admit I may have underestimated how much work he needed. He had hunted and team-chased and I loved his attitude to life - he is buzzy, forward and brave and tackles everything I ask of him. We have spent 2 years slowly retraining him to (hopefully) event and he has progressed massively. He no longer tanks at every fence and can jump a reasonably nice SJ round and be somewhat civilised out on a XC course and his flatwork has come on massively. The problem I have is dressage. He can school beautifully at home, arena hires and lessons, but in a competition atmosphere as soon as we get to the canter part of the test he just sets his jaw and leaves the arena!

There is no real malice in him, he just goes off on a little jolly and merrily canters off with me until I can pull him up shortly after. He is a very strong horse but I always ride him on the flat and hack in a dressage legal snaffle (bomber happy tongue) which he seems happy in. He jumps in the same bit but with a combination noseband which just gives me that bit extra to get him back when he gets a bit gung-ho, but he just does not respect the snaffle alone and in a dressage test will essentially just decide to go if it suits him.

I have spent 2 years solid reschooling him with the close help of an amazing trainer who has transformed him but I cannot crack this issue at competitions. I get him out as much as possible but it seems to make no difference and I really do not want to spend £££ entering him BE and driving across the country to have to hang my head in shame and get eliminated in the first phase.

Has anyone had similar and managed to work through it? Is there something I am missing? Do more in the warmup? (frustratingly he actually warms up beautifully, then always pulls this trick out once in the ring so it's not even something I can nip in the bud in the warmup) Work him harder the day before? (he does generally behave better on a bit of an "empty tank" but I need him to have enough to get round SJ and XC too on the day). Is it me? Perhaps my nerves when I get in the ring mean I just don't ride effectively enough, I really don't know.

I've basically given myself over winter to try and crack this before giving up on my hopes of eventing him so any advice or words of positivity gratefully received!

 

[I'm Dun]

Is it that you cant stop him at all? In your shoes I'd be going HC and going to dressage only events and using whatever method makes him controllable, you mentioned the combination noseband, I'd start there. Even something like a one rein stop could be very effective. Not as a permanent thing, but just until he stopped doing it.

It might be dressage isnt for him, but Id want to see what happened once I broke the habit of bogging off first. If he still doesnt want to do it then you have your answer and move on to something else. Id want to stop the casual bogging off either way though, you dont want him doing that on the road etc.

 

[KikiDee]

Is it that you cant stop him at all? In your shoes I'd be going HC and going to dressage only events and using whatever method makes him controllable, you mentioned the combination noseband, I'd start there. Even something like a one rein stop could be very effective. Not as a permanent thing, but just until he stopped doing it.

It might be dressage isnt for him, but Id want to see what happened once I broke the habit of bogging off first. If he still doesnt want to do it then you have your answer and move on to something else. Id want to stop the casual bogging off either way though, you dont want him doing that on the road etc.

He pulls up shortly after, it's not a true bolt, more of an over-exuberant charge off as soon as I ask for canter and then I can get him back and pull him up but for the 10 seconds he's off I have nothing in the way of brakes! He does it sometimes at home or in training but generally just if he's very fresh and I can nip it in the bud quickly and carry on, but obviously don't have that luxury in a test. He is generally very good and respectful everywhere else in a snaffle - schooling, training, hacking etc. I always have brakes, I think it's the atmosphere of a show the adrenaline over-rides his manners.

Dressage HC is a good idea thank you, I have been getting him out lots and getting lots of eliminations and bad scores with no improvement, I hadn't thought of taking him HC in a stronger bit so he learns that he cannot just take the mickey in that environment. We have been through a similar process with his SJ in taking him to lots of training shows and doing what I need to do to teach him he can't just charge round at 100mph, even if that means trotting every fence or circling etc.,and he has improved 100% so I think it is just a matter of doing what we have to do to break the habit and retrain his brain.

 

[DabDab]

Sounds like a buzzy horse, very sensitive to any buzzy energy from you, who's go to is always the accelerator pedal.

You probably need two things - exposure in a test environment so that you become more blasé to it, and a strategy for keeping his head in the game. You and your trainer probably know him well enough to come up with a strategy, you might just have to think outside the box a little. If it was me I would probably go HC and say, right, today on each of the canter sections we shall just do one stride of canter then back to trot, and gradually build up but always with a backup plan in my mind that I will circle or one rein stop or something the moment I feel him take a hold.

Ultimately you have to have something in your back pocket to break the habit and keep reinforcing that the white boards=no Yee hahs

 

[St Nicnaclaus]

Have you tried a grackle noseband?
Do you get nervous/tense before the canter expecting this behaviour?

I would try different nosebands and get yourself some mindset coaching. Then just get out as much as possible. Make it boring and do loads of canter in the warm up keeping him in a rhythm.

 

[KikiDee]

Sounds like a buzzy horse, very sensitive to any buzzy energy from you, who's go to is always the accelerator pedal.

Yes, that's him in a nutshell!

You probably need two things - exposure in a test environment so that you become more blasé to it, and a strategy for keeping his head in the game. You and your trainer probably know him well enough to come up with a strategy, you might just have to think outside the box a little. If it was me I would probably go HC and say, right, today on each of the canter sections we shall just do one stride of canter then back to trot, and gradually build up but always with a backup plan in my mind that I will circle or one rein stop or something the moment I feel him take a hold.

Ultimately you have to have something in your back pocket to break the habit and keep reinforcing that the white boards=no Yee hahs

Thank you, yes I think you're definitely right. I used to have the same drama with him at home and my trainer pretty much trained 'me' out of it in that he stopped me from spiraling when things went wrong and got me to refocus and keep riding through it instead of getting into the headspace of "this is all going horribly wrong I can't do this". But I think in a test environment I'm so anxious about it going wrong that I almost become a self fulfilling prophecy, I'm anxious about him tanking with me and ruining the test and so I tense up and he feeds off this and explodes and I go into survival mode of "lets just get this over with" and stop riding effectively.

I'm definitely going to get him out HC and just take the pressure off and treat it like we are schooling at home, so if it goes wrong we just go back and repeat the exercise. I actually had a very nice judge at the weekend who allowed me to restart and finish the test and we completed the canter in a semi-acceptable fashion, so I do think if we got the opportunity to do this more we could hopefully recreate the progress we've made at home in the ring.

 

[KikiDee]

Have you tried a grackle noseband?
Do you get nervous/tense before the canter expecting this behaviour?

I would try different nosebands and get yourself some mindset coaching. Then just get out as much as possible. Make it boring and do loads of canter in the warm up keeping him in a rhythm.

I do have one, haven't tried it for dressage but will do. I'm a bit of a soft touch in that I try and problem solve and not mask problems but I do think he is just taking the mickey a bit because he knows he can, in the combination noseband we don't have any issues at all.

I always give him a really good canter in the warm-up but frustratingly he is an absolute delight in the warm-up, and then becomes a fire breathing dragon in the ring. But I definitely think I am so anxious about the test going well that he is feeding off my nerves.

 

[Trot_on]

Have you tried a pro or your trainer ride him at a competition? Does he do the same?

 

[Red-1]

I had a moose of a horse who would explode BE at the first canter. Sadly, he also knew where the canter would come in the test and was waiting... waiting.... waiting... for me to ask and, at the first hint that it was TIME TO CANTER.... YE-HAAAAAAA!!!

I just laughed at him. He was an exuberant moose. I rode on and just kept on line, even when the legs were doing mad stuff. Despite the ye-ha, he usually scored pretty well as the rest of the test would be good. Then one day he knuckled under and scored a 16 dressage, although that was old score, it was still an exceptionally good one! Weirdly, for both jumping phases, he was exceptionally steady and looked after me. It was the waiting to canter when he knew it was coming, and having to wait that did him - it kind of felt like a giggly schoolboy causing mischief!

A few years later, I had a mare who would also explode in dressage when asked to canter. At home she schooled beautifully. Hers was a sort of anger feeling though so very different. She would be better if worked well the day before, lunged before leaving home, lunged when arrived at the event, hacked around the venue for an hour, with a mini warm-up half way, then actually warmed up for the test.

I let her have winters semi-off, and at the first dressage of the season, I'd go to a small one and use whatever kit I needed to, to ensure the canter wasn't unruly. One competition was draw reins, and I used my BE number bib to announce that I was HC, so no need to complain about the draw reins! Before I am jumped on, I didn't 'use' the draw reins, in that they were slack, unless she set sail broncing, in which case I would reel her in before it got too out of hand. I would then slacken them off again.

The two horses were very different. By working with him, the first one learned to curb his excitement and seemed to really enjoy his eventing. In fact, he never once faulted XC and looked for the flags, carrying me sedately and carefully round.

The second one was also wired in the jumping, although it didn't involve bucking as she was totally wired towards the fences and getting over them, so it didn't notice as much. She was 'keen' but I would say that she never did thoroughly enjoy her eventing, although she became a lamb in most situations outside of competition. She later proved to be in pain: despite the vet not being able to pin point anything during my ownership, she later was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and I believe the hormones on being excited at competition cause pain in that scenario.

 

[sbloom]

Bear in mind HC only means you're not competing, you will need to check with the organisers about any tack that's outside the rules of the competition afaik.

 

[sheep]

How is he with a very short warm up? If that’s suitable and appropriate for the level you’re at.

 

[Red-1]

Bear in mind HC only means you're not competing, you will need to check with the organisers about any tack that's outside the rules of the competition afaik.

Yes, that is correct. That is why I did a very local one, where the venue was run by a friend who understood my circumstances. I explained, asked permission, and then wore the number bob explaining the HC to other competitors.

If I am going for a confidence builder, I tend to enter as normal and just decide to disregard the competition aspect. Then, if the horse goes well, he is still in the running. I have to be disciplined about riding for the horse rather than for a result.

I have also run HC before when taking a very experienced horse and people would think I was pot hunting by entering a class lower than we would normally win at. I can't do with the glares LOL. I once had someone loudly declare that I should not be allowed to enter. Genuinely though, if you are allowed to compete by definition, then you should, without worry. It is extra practice at keeping your mindset as focus on the horse rather than the competition.

I would do HC also if, for example, I was missing the canter: that would be one for the organiser to know, to agree with the judge that no bells need ringing when no canter transition occurs. And obviously pre-agreed HC with the organiser if I have non standard tack. I used boots for a youngster for a while as he wasn't confident initially and was in an exciting environment, and not having boots was simply not worth the risk for the first few outings.

Most local venues round here are very accommodating for such requests. I do find the number bib with HC on stopped people getting antsy about it. This included about boots, where people seemed inordinately put out that my horse had boots on!

For dressage, I always ride for the NEXT competition, so am perfectly prepared to throw today's competition in order that the next one will go well. I find that attitude means I can laugh at the muppet who was excited about the impending canter, or give a strong half halt with one who is being unruly.

 

[Skib]

I dont know if this will work for you . It is a variation of and preparation for riding canter trot transitions going large. I was asked to ride a 20 m. circle away from the end of the the school, with 2 or 4 transitions between trot and canter. And on both reins.
Being bent on a circle slows the horse down.

 

[Alibear]

First, I'd see if my trainer would be willing to do a competition on him, just to see if the issue is more me than the horse. Then I'd go from there, it might be changing your thinking from focusing on NOT doing it, to focus on what should be happening. So focus on planning to set sail off up the long side, so first goal is to redirect him into the arena regardless of speed or llama impersonations. Focusing on what you want to happen is a real game changer.

 

[Spiderpig2009]

I would go to lots of dressage only shows- he will soon learn it’s quite boring with no jumps to do. If he were mine I would also warm up for a good while and do the two classes. Eventually he will learn it’s not that exciting- if you just go to unaffiliated it’s not on your record anyway. After the winter is over he will be much more settled with it. His reaction sounds like he really isn’t a fan of the arena. Even if for the first ten shows you get in and have a walk and trot round then come out again - that’s a win.

Getting someone else to ride is ok for a couple of shows, but ultimately you will be with him in the saddle long term.

I would even start off the intro walk and trot tests- he will learn it is so boring it will become second nature. Particularly if he has found it quite exciting going into the ring and jumping round. Doing walk, trot and halt for a few weeks at shows will help him switch off. Go to loads of them - one a week for a month and that will help him switch off and think he won’t be jumping each time in the ring

 

[KikiDee]

I had a moose of a horse who would explode BE at the first canter. Sadly, he also knew where the canter would come in the test and was waiting... waiting.... waiting... for me to ask and, at the first hint that it was TIME TO CANTER.... YE-HAAAAAAA!!!

I just laughed at him. He was an exuberant moose. I rode on and just kept on line, even when the legs were doing mad stuff. Despite the ye-ha, he usually scored pretty well as the rest of the test would be good. Then one day he knuckled under and scored a 16 dressage, although that was old score, it was still an exceptionally good one! Weirdly, for both jumping phases, he was exceptionally steady and looked after me. It was the waiting to canter when he knew it was coming, and having to wait that did him - it kind of felt like a giggly schoolboy causing mischief!

Thank you - I think we are definitely like this! Plus, as others have rightly pointed out, I'm waiting for the explosion so tensing up thinking "oh sh*t we have to canter in a minute" and boom off we go like a rocket

You've basically repeated exactly what my trainer tells me to do at home, which is stop going into panic mode and just keep riding and get on with it! I've definitely realised I think I am half the problem here.

 

[KikiDee]

Have you tried a pro or your trainer ride him at a competition? Does he do the same?

He hasn't ridden him at a comp but has ridden him at home when I am having problems, he still plays up but my trainer winds him in pretty quickly. He is much physically stronger and an exceptionally more talented rider than me so horse generally behaves very well for him. He was previously hunted by a big, strong man so is used to being ridden with lots of hand and leg, though we have spent a long time trying to teach him there is a better way rather than getting into a battle of strength with him. He's a quirky little thing and can be quite anxious, and as someone said earlier, his go-to is to put the accelerator pedal down if in doubt, I think he is definitely feeding off my own nervous energy in the ring and I am compounding it by not taking control and giving him the right direction (easier said than done when you are charging down the arena having just gone 0-60 in 2 seconds!)

 

[KikiDee]

How is he with a very short warm up? If that’s suitable and appropriate for the level you’re at.

I've tried both. Short warmup he behaves impeccably in the warm-up and I think "great, we've got this!" then into the ring we go and he turns into a hooligan again. I'm going to try a much longer and more intense warmup to see if maybe he needs to get into 'work mode' a bit more. I do find schooling at home when we have the yee-ha's he can sometimes need a good solid 20 mins of hard work to get his head in the game and realise what we are there to do, then he will be a dream.

 

[KikiDee]

First, I'd see if my trainer would be willing to do a competition on him, just to see if the issue is more me than the horse. Then I'd go from there, it might be changing your thinking from focusing on NOT doing it, to focus on what should be happening. So focus on planning to set sail off up the long side, so first goal is to redirect him into the arena regardless of speed or llama impersonations. Focusing on what you want to happen is a real game changer.

Thank you I think you are absolutely right and this is exactly what my trainer tells me to do at home, stop worrying about what just went wrong and think about what you're going to do next. I suspect I am definitely part of the problem, I am anticipating it going wrong and almost becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. I will ask trainer but he is quite busy and hard to pin down, I usually go to his yard to squeeze me in.

 

[KikiDee]

I would go to lots of dressage only shows- he will soon learn it’s quite boring with no jumps to do. If he were mine I would also warm up for a good while and do the two classes. Eventually he will learn it’s not that exciting- if you just go to unaffiliated it’s not on your record anyway. After the winter is over he will be much more settled with it. His reaction sounds like he really isn’t a fan of the arena. Even if for the first ten shows you get in and have a walk and trot round then come out again - that’s a win.

Getting someone else to ride is ok for a couple of shows, but ultimately you will be with him in the saddle long term.

I would even start off the intro walk and trot tests- he will learn it is so boring it will become second nature. Particularly if he has found it quite exciting going into the ring and jumping round. Doing walk, trot and halt for a few weeks at shows will help him switch off. Go to loads of them - one a week for a month and that will help him switch off and think he won’t be jumping each time in the ring

Thank you.

He indeed hates flatwork, it's really not his thing but he will humour me for a while. He's actually a really easy horse to take out on the gallops or a farm ride and has fantastic brakes which you'd think the opposite, but schooling wise when he's had enough of something his get-out-of-jail card is to set his neck and tank - it's almost like a naughty riding school pony trick!

I sent him in for a full work up, x-rays, scans and a gastric scope last year just to make sure it wasn't something niggly but all clear, he just is what he is

We have done loads of intros and the trot bit of the test is fairly acceptable now, but I have stepped him up to prelim with the thought we have to get round a BE test at some point and it has all gone to pot a bit! But I think I will step him back to intros for a bit until we get that bit really relaxed and get him out as much as possible every weekend over winter, even if it's HC.

 

[Irishcob6]

What about just doing intro tests to start? Get him used to the dressage arenas without the stress/excitement of canter and teaches him that dressage can be laid back and boring? You may find that you ride differently without the worry of the issues that will appear when you get to the canter section

 

[Alibear]

A bit of a left field thought, but as you say he's polite cantering at other times. Perhaps when you step back up to prelim for the canter movements do those in two point/light seat to start with, one so you have something to focus on rather than worry about what might happen and giving him more of an opening/space, it might encourage him to play along a bit more. Could be worth a shot especially if it's a place with a friendly judge

 

[ester]

Sounds more like a tension issue, prob from both of you than a running off issue. I’m sort of wondering if you’re both holding your breath before that first canter now.
I also think trying 2 point would be interesting, if no further progress I would pay trainer to ride him out, on the basis that he then really gets a feel of how the horse is in the competition arena.

Don’t be too downhearted it sounds like you’ve done a great job overall.

 

[DabDab]

There's definitely an element of being able to meet a horse at their energy level and then being able to shape what they are doing and being able to bring them back to a more productive mindset, rather than just trying to immediately shut them down every time when they get an adrenaline spike.

 

[vhf]

Have you tried indoor dressage? What happens then? If there's nowhere to bog off to, maybe you could crack the habit - or, at least, develop nerve coping strategies that work for both of you. How about sacrificing the canter altogether, trot it and get a zero once or twice until you both learn to handle the anxiety. I do feel your pain, speaking as someone who once had a judge flag me down, tell me to breathe, and ask whether I wanted to start the test again!

 

[HufflyPuffly]

It would be interesting to know if he does this in both eventing dressage and straight dressage tests?

Topaz was out competing at around adv med and still would loose the plot doing dressage on grass, especially if she'd spotted the jumps... I could get her to be somewhat obedient but not up to the level of where she was for just straight dressage...

 

[Widgeon]

There's definitely an element of being able to meet a horse at their energy level and then being able to shape what they are doing and being able to bring them back to a more productive mindset, rather than just trying to immediately shut them down every time when they get an adrenaline spike.

I will never forget the lesson in which my quite-lazy cob was assaulted (his words) by a pigeon leaping out of the big conifer hedge along the side of the arena. He took off with my instructor standing in the middle shouting delightedly, "USE the pigeon! USE the pigeon!". She wasn't wrong, once I'd gathered all the legs back together it was a very nice, forward canter. It always makes me laugh thinking about it.

 

[ester]

I will never forget the lesson in which my quite-lazy cob was assaulted (his words) by a pigeon leaping out of the big conifer hedge along the side of the arena. He took off with my instructor standing in the middle shouting delightedly, "USE the pigeon! USE the pigeon!". She wasn't wrong, once I'd gathered all the legs back together it was a very nice, forward canter. It always makes me laugh thinking about it.

Sorry that's perfectly brilliant!

 

[Goldenstar]

I am another that would use a grackle and I would try another bit the loose ring myler snaffle with a thin mouth piece is what I would go for .
And just get him out more every unaffiliated you can get to go ride as many test as they will let you.I would canter in the warm up a lot and I would teach the shoulder in in the canter so you sneak into shoulder in positioning as you make the the transition you the have the horse more bent in the rib which should make it easier to control him .

 

[tristars]

Ideally canter in an arena should have a very slight inwards bend

And just transitioning from trot in that position would give you a lot more control if the slight flexion is there from the start it may stop him from coming off the bit and you losing control