Help with a big tanking horse!

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I have a really strong big Irish horse who is currently jumped in a Dutch gag on the bottom ring and a grackle and martingale. I'm looking for a less severe but as effective Bitting combination if anyone can recommend?

He is strong and crosses his jaw and tanks!

Also while we are on the topic how much do you rate the NS bits I'm thinking of shopping the tbs into them! They are fussy mouthed!
 
I find they can just get hold of the dutch gags and go through them, a pony on my yard went into a waterford snaffle from a gag, it has made a real difference, not my favourite type of bit but he does not take hold of it in the same way and now has brakes, worth a try.
I would always go for a double myself but I am happy using two reins, not everyone is, you can ride on the top rein with the curb coming in just when required.
 
In my opinion when I here about 'strong' and resistant horses, I immediately think there is a gap in schooling somewhere? Unless obviously there is a medical issue, have teeth etc.. Been checked?

And with the fussy tbs, consider bitless, me and my ex racer haven't looked back once after swapping to bitless.
 
My TB goes extremely well dressage, jumping and hacking in a Team Up NS bit. My instructor recommended NS bits when I started his re training and have to say I agree with her! If you get them from the Bit Bank, you have a month to try them out
 
When he does this are you in a position to really push him on and work him hard? Worked for us with our thug who used to take off after jumping a fence, pushed him on into galloping circles around the field and soon got fed up of that game!
 
All checks have been done, he is fit and sound :D

Wouldn't say he is badly schooled just big and knows it!

Tbh I haven't tried the go on gallop off thing, I'd imagine he would just buck me off or jump out the arena!
 
I have a ID mare that used to be strong. I went back to a French Link snaffle and basics in the school. When she got strong I gave the reins. She soon stopped pulling when she realised there was nothing to pull against :)

Lots of transitions also helped. Did mainly walk with just a few strides of trot at a time then moved up to trot with a few strides of canter. Didn't do any jumping until she was good on the flat then started again with trotting poles. Took a while but she's never gone back to her old ways
 
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I bought my strong Westphalian in a Dutch gag, previous owners used one rein on 2nd ring. I bought NS Universal, use it with 2 reins and never had a problem.
 
I have used the NS universal too. I could ride ride him in a snaffle but needed this for XC and hunting. He was also strong and a big lad. 17hh and me just 5ft 3". I found he went very well in it. I hired mine before I bought it as expensive if it doesn't work.
 
ImmyS said:
In my opinion when I here about 'strong' and resistant horses, I immediately think there is a gap in schooling somewhere? Unless obviously there is a medical issue, have teeth etc.. Been checked?

And with the fussy tbs, consider bitless, me and my ex racer haven't looked back once after swapping to bitless.
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What Immy said....I had this with my beastie...he taught me no matter what bit i put in he could run through it...
After all if i had a bit in my mouthi could still move my legs :D

No so sure bitless is a good idea tho....
 
I haven't read all of your replies, but have you thought of trying a kineton noseband? I really rate them as they only come into action when really needed and nose pressure really works for some horses and in this case you have the combination of your bit and the kineton action.

As for the NS bits - well I really rate the Verbindend - have used it on my fussy mouthed WB and he loved the thinner mouthpiece and pressure off his tongue - much happier.

I have just swiopped to the same for my cob mare who has a tendency to go on the forehand and she too loves this bit - great salivered mouth and I can really notice how much lighter on the forehand she is. I have just ordered the second one so they don't have to 'share' :D Will be looking at the NS starter bit for my youngster later this year too.
 
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ImmyS said:
In my opinion when I here about 'strong' and resistant horses, I immediately think there is a gap in schooling somewhere? .
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Not necessarily. Some horses are just 'big and strong'. I had one of those. Manners to burn, and well schooled - but too big and strong for me...
 
I have a big horse like this and often ride him in a nelson gag with a waterford mouthpiece but for less severe bitting I use a Waterford snaffle with a controller noseband often referred to as a lever noseband I think he's very respectful of that combination
 
ImmyS said:
In my opinion when I here about 'strong' and resistant horses, I immediately think there is a gap in schooling somewhere? Unless obviously there is a medical issue, have teeth etc.. Been checked?

.
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Not always, my much missed 18 hand heavyweight show hunter RID gelding did dressage to elem in a fulmer, light as a feather and very supple.

Cubbing we went and for extra safety I put on my most hated bit of kit, a running martingale. Anyway, the horse did plenty of running, mostly past the field and field master. Some clown took a photo of us, the horse black with sweat and with a huge grin in his face. Me with the knot on my tie under my ear, hair escaped from hairnet, hat lop sided, puce in the face and sweat dripping off my chin and an expression of utter terror.

After a week in bed, I took him again, this time in an american gag with a back strap on it, a flash noseband and a standing martingale. Much better this time and I was enjoying the day until he wiped me off under a tree.

We returned to the dressage and show ring in our snaffle and double without incident and he was a gentleman as always.
 
Mine was a whips horse before, so had only been hunted by a man and up front. I had a tough time keeping him under control. Once took him in a snaffle (don't know why) and he took off over some big hedges I didn't wanna jump but had no choice lol.
 
AdorableAlice said:
After a week in bed, I took him again, this time in an american gag with a back strap on it, a flash noseband and a standing martingale. Much better this time and I was enjoying the day until he wiped me off under a tree.
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So it is okay to strap your horse down with every bit of kit because you were enjoying it? If a horse was that difficult to hunt, I wouldn't strap it up just for the sake of having fun for a few hours, I just wouldn't hunt it.
 
On advice from a show jumper I recently swapped my horse from a dutch gag (which she did just run through once she set her neck) to a good old fashioned Kimblewick. The difference was amazing. I have the curb quite loose but I now longer need a flash and the response is immediate, no fighting or towing. She actually seems happier as well. I'm just using it for jumping and still use a snaffle for dressage but this seems to have finally got the message through that tanking off after a spook or a jump is not generally well received!
 
ImmyS said:
So it is okay to strap your horse down with every bit of kit because you were enjoying it? If a horse was that difficult to hunt, I wouldn't strap it up just for the sake of having fun for a few hours, I just wouldn't hunt it.
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Classic.

That idealistic comment has just put a lot of big hunters on the dole.

I keep horses to enjoy them. I expect them to respect me. In return I lavish a lot of money, time and heartbreak on them.

A sharp bit used properly is far better than continual hauling on a snaffle. The same as a good poke with spurs is better than non stop nagging with the leg. The same applies to the whip, if it is necessary to use it at all, use it once and mean it.

I will bow to your knowledge of riding 18h fit heavyweights (my lad was 3/4 of a ton on the weighbridge) and I off to buy a rubber snaffle for the next H/W I am growing in the shed.
 
My cob is a strong girl, she knows how to use her shoulders against me.
I ride her in a pelham to jump and hack (with two reins) but i have bottom rein quite loose, i can ride her in a snaffle and its hard work! Takes a intense schooling sessions. Lots of softning. Transitions and lateral work but in the end she will relax over her back and become light! If she does tank in canter i have to give her a good half halt. Just takesa lot of effort, but i find shes more content to be in the pelham (this is the only bit she doesnt jaw cross in), it has taken me 3yrs to get to grips with this girlie to get her light and working from my seat (minus a 2months break from a colic op)
 
Not a particularly tall horse, but my previous cob was a HW vanner, so plenty of horse if he decided he didn't want to go where I asked... Once he realised what fast work was, and he'd been on his first fun ride, he got progressively stronger and we went from loose ring french link, to full cheek single jointed snaffle, then when that stopped working my instructor suggested a kimblewick. Best thing ever for brakes! Didn't have such good steering in the kimblewick, but we could always stop, however much fun he was having...

I too found that the Dutch gag didn't really do anything to stop him if he wanted tog o for a run, and the same with my current lad - it's enough to stop the new cob, but it's a bit like putting the handbrake on. He's actually better in a plain snaffle and drop than the gag, and if the snaffle just won't be enough, then we love his pelham - with two reins of course.

Does anyone you know have bits in your size that you could try just to test out mouth/cheekpieces for your horse?
 
Im with Adorable Alice but then I also have a 18hh HW ID who tanked off with me yesterday having a canter out hacking, yes he is only 5 so no not perfectly schooled ! and he was in a french link and cavesson but will go into his waterford next time we go for a jolly round the farm. Sometimes I wonder that these people whose horses go perfectly all the time actually ever do anything exciting with them !!

Beans waterford mouthpiece on either loose ring or 2/3 ring gag is very useful for tanking horses !!
 
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