Help with a big tanking horse!

ImmyS said:
I ride my horse in a rope halter currently, for hacking as I only use my seat aids, leg aids when hacking.. Whilst I school in my barefoot bridle and will continue to jump in it etc.. once my horse is fully recovered from injury.
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I can do the same with my lad and he behaves like a gent. But if i was doing a hunter trial or a team chase, with all the excitement of the loud speakers, crowds, other horses, his adrenaline goes up and he just wants to go, he absolutely loves it and thrives on it.

In a similar situation if your horse was a bold, brave competitive horse, could you honestly go bitless and just use your seat and leg aids?!
 
The schooling issue yes could be relevant, and goodness knows we could all work harder in that aspect of our riding. But its not always the answer.

I think you are probably to be commended that you are able to do as much as I imagine you can in a simple rope halter. I wish I was as brave.
 
paddi22 said:
In a similar situation if your horse was a bold, brave competitive horse, could you honestly go bitless and just use your seat and leg aids?!
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I would work as hard as it would be necessary to make my horse comfortable and calm enough to be able to do that, yes. If we never got to that point, then that would be ok with me, I would accept my horse wasn't ready :)
 
amymay said:
The schooling issue yes could be relevant, and goodness knows we could all work harder in that aspect of our riding. But its not always the answer.

I think you are probably to be commended that you are able to do as much as I imagine you can in a simple rope halter. I wish I was as brave.
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I know it is not the be all and end all.. It was a mere suggestion.

No need to be brave, I put the time and hard work in, and my horse knows what I expect of her.. That's all :)
 
He doesn't need to go back to basics, he is an 11 year old, well schooled he just takes the pee sometimes. I won't try and re school him. He has a giant bug strong head and will be strong regardless! Teach me for not having another ex racer!
 
Beans2000 said:
He doesn't need to go back to basics, he is an 11 year old, well schooled he just takes the pee sometimes. I won't try and re school him. He has a giant bug strong head and will be strong regardless! Teach me for not having another ex racer!
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:eek: ex racers are the best! Would love to have another!
 
You miss understand! I have 4 ex racers and I get something different and that is the problem not the tbs ! The horse in question is id x carthorse :p
 
what sort of race would an id x carthorse run? one minute its a racehorse... next its a wagon machine... :D
 
Think confusion had come from my comment and the fact that in my OP I ask a seperate question about the tbs!

Trust me this giant footed big headed thug is not one of my precious tbs! Though I do love him all the same!
 
ImmyS said:
No need to be brave, I put the time and hard work in, and my horse knows what I expect of her.. That's all :)
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So with your rope halter, are you able to work the horse in fast company, knowing that the horse will never get strong in any way? Or any other situation really where a horse may get strong??
 
I think the confusion in last few posts comes from OP saying it'll teach her for NOT having another ex racer...in other words, she wishes she had got another ex racer rather than this tanking beast.

Regarding the tanking. I refuse to get into a debate about bitted or bitless bridles. Those debates are not helpful to the OP.

What I will say is that, yes, horses can get extremely excited at certain things and become stronger due to the adrenaline and eagerness to do the job.

Yes, sometimes this can be partly helped by going back to basics a little to remind the horse of a few things. This doesn't gave to mean back to basics in the flatwork. This can also mean, for example in jumping. Going back to doing exercises like a pole five strides after a jump and going over the jump, then stopping before the pole. Reduce until the horse stops within two strides. There are loads of useful exercises like this that encompass basic training without the need to go right back to the beginning and to he honest, we should all do things like this as maintenance training from time to time.

Yes, you can desensitise a horse to excitement to a degree and you can also use calmers if you feel the need, but honestly, to think you can make a super excitable horse less excitable through hard work and practise is completely unrealistic. Some horses just truly love their jobs and want to go. Is it not better to give them that mental and physical enrichment every now and then despite them being strong, than keep them from having that while we try and try to curb them to the way we want them to be.

A horse that doesn't love something should not be forced to do it because we think they should.
A horse that does love something should not be kept from doing it because they don't do it in the way we would like them to. Instead the good horse owners look for compromises and ways to make it possible to allow the horse to do what it loves so much, but in a safe way.

I do not agree with harsh bits for 90% of riding, but you know what, sometimes I would rather see a horse in a gag having the time of its life than sat at home doing circles in the school in a snaffle or bitless bridle because it is calm that way.

OP, good luck. I can PM you lots of tools to help if you want so just PM me.

This post was brought to you y the "I don't give a damn if you ride bitted or bitless, I just want to help foundation"
 
Another vote here for the Kineton noseband. One of these combined with a jointed snaffle worked very well for my old hooligan who got very strong cantering in company. I had much more control with that than any bit I tried, though it was a little trial and error at first to get the right combination between pressure on the nose and pressure from the bit.
 
_GG_ said:
I think the confusion in last few posts comes from OP saying it'll teach her for NOT having another ex racer...in other words, she wishes she had got another ex racer rather than this tanking beast.

Regarding the tanking. I refuse to get into a debate about bitted or bitless bridles. Those debates are not helpful to the OP.

What I will say is that, yes, horses can get extremely excited at certain things and become stronger due to the adrenaline and eagerness to do the job.

Yes, sometimes this can be partly helped by going back to basics a little to remind the horse of a few things. This doesn't gave to mean back to basics in the flatwork. This can also mean, for example in jumping. Going back to doing exercises like a pole five strides after a jump and going over the jump, then stopping before the pole. Reduce until the horse stops within two strides. There are loads of useful exercises like this that encompass basic training without the need to go right back to the beginning and to he honest, we should all do things like this as maintenance training from time to time.

Yes, you can desensitise a horse to excitement to a degree and you can also use calmers if you feel the need, but honestly, to think you can make a super excitable horse less excitable through hard work and practise is completely unrealistic. Some horses just truly love their jobs and want to go. Is it not better to give them that mental and physical enrichment every now and then despite them being strong, than keep them from having that while we try and try to curb them to the way we want them to be.

A horse that doesn't love something should not be forced to do it because we think they should.
A horse that does love something should not be kept from doing it because they don't do it in the way we would like them to. Instead the good horse owners look for compromises and ways to make it possible to allow the horse to do what it loves so much, but in a safe way.

I do not agree with harsh bits for 90% of riding, but you know what, sometimes I would rather see a horse in a gag having the time of its life than sat at home doing circles in the school in a snaffle or bitless bridle because it is calm that way.

OP, good luck. I can PM you lots of tools to help if you want so just PM me.

This post was brought to you y the "I don't give a damn if you ride bitted or bitless, I just want to help foundation"
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In the spirit of the help foundation, how is a gag less severe than a Pelham/kimblewick?
 
Horses for courses I guess. Mine didn't like a Kimblewick but was happy in a happy mouth 2 ring gag with a peanut roller. Sometimes trial and error which is why I have my very own bit bank :)
 
My lad used to tank when he was younger, he has stopped doing it, be about 4 years now... inhand work may help, and checking to see if he has issues with the bit itself? If he's clamping down on the bit when you're putting pressure on it, he's not listening and is evading, which then spirals as you put more pressure on it, he evades further..
It also might be worth trying him in other types of bit to see which one he's happiest in..
 
See my lad in my avatar? He's a very different horse these days ;)
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He's in a loose ring french link sweet iron bit.. made all the difference :)
 
tallyho! said:
In the spirit of the help foundation, how is a gag less severe than a Pelham/kimblewick?
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I can't see that I have said that anywhere. The implication is that the gag is indeed a harsh bit. I would rather see a horse in a gag having fun and enjoying its work, than at home in a snaffle bored of the same old stuff.

I do think all leveraged bits are harsh, there are many non leveraged bits that are harsh. Hell.....even a snaffle can cause a lot of pain in the wrong hands. So too can any bitless bridle.

I am not getting into that debate. I simply shared my opinion on how I would like to use compromises to make the horse happy. It isn't't all about us and what we might think is right. It is about the horses and what is going to give them the most fulfilled and happy life.

Does that make sense. I do realise I could have said, "harsh bit" in place of gag. :-)
 
I seriously believe no matter how much work I did with my horse I could never make that statement.

I could not hunt/XC in a rope halter. Horse would love it cos he could go as fast as he liked and wherever he liked! :0
 
People always seem very opinionated about bitting and this thread has turned into another one of those debates about using stronger bits - something that has crossed my mind is this - I agree that schooling can of course help with a lot of issues - but not everyone has easy access to a school. So sometimes you need to do something with more instant results as a stepping stone until you can put the schooling in. Also some people are just happy with hacking out but need something they have more confidence in. Sorry if this has gone off topic at all but some people always jump in with comments about schooling schooling schooling but it's not always possible. We all do different things with our horses and as long as they're not suffering because of things we impose on them then we should accept that different things work for different people :)
 
I would rather soil myself than hunt something as placid and steady that it could be hunted safely in a rope halter, to be honest with you I am not sure such thing exists.
As wonderful as it is to have a well schooled, well mannered and responsive horse, I maintain that anything, no matter its schooling, has the potential to get hot and strong in fast company, particularly hunting.
 
RunToEarth said:
I would rather soil myself than hunt something as placid and steady that it could be hunted safely in a rope halter, to be honest with you I am not sure such thing exists.
As wonderful as it is to have a well schooled, well mannered and responsive horse, I maintain that anything, no matter its schooling, has the potential to get hot and strong in fast company, particularly hunting.
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The problem with this is that, however much fun it sounds, it's a car crash as no one is in control.

Basically, it's training not bits or the lack of them that we are talking about here.

If you are just part of a stampeed, it's rubbish, often people think their horse is enjoying himself when in fact he is quite distressed. Horses crave safety above all else and mad gallops normally mean death if they get caught. They are not enjoying it, if you think they are, you are wrong.

I want my horse to go from gallop to a walk or stop, even in a mob, because I want that control over his feet.

It's hard to explain, but when a trained attack dog bites, it does so on command, not out of rage or hate or out of control, only because it's been asked to. It stops biting on command because thats it's training. If it doesn't stop, it's not trained properly, same for the horse thats out of control.

If you let them run out of control three times in a row, its a habit, so good luck with that.
 
Immy please come ride big lad in a rope halter!

There is the bits are cruel group at yard, however they r happy to let there kids swing off the curb rein on a Pelham when they ride there horses.... But it's ok as they are rubber!! Also nice to know they can't even pull there horses to a halt for incoming traffic and nearly kill there horses. But it's ok As they are bitless!!
 
Beans2000 said:
Immy please come ride big lad in a rope halter!

There is the bits are cruel group at yard, however they r happy to let there kids swing off the curb rein on a Pelham when they ride there horses.... But it's ok as they are rubber!! Also nice to know they can't even pull there horses to a halt for incoming traffic and nearly kill there horses. But it's ok As they are bitless!!
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I don't want to ride your horse in a rope halter, I want to ride mine in it because that's how she goes best.
 
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