help with aggresive livery

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tazanotabza

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last week a girl who keeps her horses with mine on a livery yard left her american thoroughbred in a field without a rug on in the thunder. i went up to do my horses and found it to be shivering. i do not know this girl well as im pretty sure she only does her horses once a week when she goes for a hack but i cant be there the whole time to see. her horse was shivering all over so i grabbed him put him in my stable dried him off as best i could and put her field rug on him and put him back out. i got laid into by her when i rang her to tell her for interfering al i said is "hi i just put his rug on to keep him warm" and got shouted at. Today i went up to the yard in the tipping rain and guess what her horse is shivering again without a rug on and now i can see his ribs. And shes doing an NVQ in horse management!!!
any help would be brilliant, should i talk to her? thankyou.
 
bill her for every time you have to bring the horse in and rug the horse up.. she will soon learn when her livery money goes up
 
It's not good that she's leaving such a thin-skinned horse without any protection but she's probably just feeling a bit defensive that some one 'interfered' (thinking from her perspective) with her horse and may be feeling bad because her horse care skills are being called into question. You might want to have a quiet chat with her and offer gently to rug him up if it's cold/wet so that you don't come across as confrontational or critical. If she continues to be cross/shouty then don't bother getting too involved. Let other people know to keep an eye out and maybe they too can have a word so it doesn't seem like it's just you who's getting after her. If things persist she'll end up with a horse with a cold or worse, so maybe mention how much antibiotics/keeping him in and off work could cost her!
 
Are you another livery or the yard owner or manager??

If the former, I would just let her get on with her own horse to be honest
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As sad as it is, you are not responsible for her horse..... would you be there to whip the rug off again if the sun comes out half an hour later and the horse is hot
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Horses will shiver if cold, but they may not be as miserable as they look. Losing weight is a worry, but again not your problem.

The amount of replies I have seen, where an owner is asking if people would be cross if someone else interfered, lead me to believe that most people would rather someone didnt interfere at all...... infact most people would be rather cross
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To be honest I would be annoyed if someone took it upon themselves to put a rug on my horse.... Shivering is a physiological mechanism to keep warm.. as long as the horse isn´t too thin I can´t see a problem.....
 
If the yard is yours, tell her you expect her to visit her horse at least once a day - and explain the standard of care you also expect. Part of this, would probably be you taking any reasonable action you considered was require to ensure her horse was being appropriately cared for.

If you are not the YO - tell your YO that you are concerned about the horse - and leave it at that.

No horse died from shivering - however, I would feel the same as you about it. And certainly her reaction was rather horrid. I wonder if it happens to her often??? I.e people feeling the need to step in to help care for her horse......
 
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To be honest I would be annoyed if someone took it upon themselves to put a rug on my horse.... Shivering is a physiological mechanism to keep warm.. as long as the horse isn´t too thin I can´t see a problem.....

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Same.
 
I agree with those that don't think shivering is too much of an issue I'm afraid. In the summer it often tips down and then stops and is quite warm afterwards. I only ever have a rug on mine if I need to keep them clean for a show the next day, for example, or if I'm going to need them dry to ride. It's my decision, and I actually feel quite strongly that most other liveries on my yard use too many rugs and mollycoddle their horses - but I wouldn't dream of taking their rugs off or deliberately turning them out without a rug if I knew the owner wanted one on. To my mind it's the same thing.
 
You tried to help, it wan't appreciated. Leave it and get on with your own horse. It is July, many horses are un-rugged. Some will get a bit cold when they get wet, but they'll cope and its not up to you to decide they shouldn't have to.
 
I agree with the above.. I wouldve been quite annoyed at someone taking it upon themselves to rug my horse in the middle of summer! If however they'd approached me to say 'it was pouring with rain the other day and X was shivering, would you like me to chuck a rug on him if i see him like that again?' I might be a bit more pleasant... but i'd still probably say no...
 
I would have been furious if someone had taken it upon themselves to bring my horse in, dry it off and then put it back out with a rug on IN JULY! If anyone on the yard was concerned they should have rung the livery and then she could have come and made her own decision. Horses are getting so molly coddled these days. When did you last see cows out in a field with a rug on? I rest my case.
 
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I would have been furious if someone had taken it upon themselves to bring my horse in, dry it off and then put it back out with a rug on IN JULY!

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I actually would be delighted if someone took the time to do that for my horse - providing I had a telephone call (as the OP did).
 
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I actually would be delighted if someone took the time to do that for my horse - providing I had a telephone call (as the OP did).

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I have to disagree, I would be fairly annoyed TBH even with a phone call. OP called livery AFTER she had rugged up horse. As someone who lives around 40mins drive from yard - considerably more in rush hour - it would be extremely inconvinient to me if someone had rugged up my horse without my consent and left him that way in addition to costing me money in fuel to go up and remove rug. ( this does assume livery had already seen to horse that day)

A phone call to tell me horse was shivering in the rain would be appriciated but not taking it upon themselves to question/correct my horse management style without consulting me.

I do not feel that a horse shivering in a summer storm is a welfare issue that requires second party intevention. A quiet word at this stage would be far more appropriate.
 
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I would have been furious if someone had taken it upon themselves to bring my horse in, dry it off and then put it back out with a rug on IN JULY!

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I actually would be delighted if someone took the time to do that for my horse - providing I had a telephone call (as the OP did).

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I agree with AmyMay...
and even if you didn't appreciate someone looking out for your horse, there is still no excuse for ill manners and rudeness, if it was something you didn't like and you didn't want it done again, then whats wrong with saying something like, 'thank you very much for looking out for my horse but I would appreciate it if you didn't do that again.' or 'I don't like my horse being rugged in summer even when its raining so could you not do that again but thank you for thinking about him.'
 
my poor tb was naked in the thunder storm the other day, and survived. infact i would be fuming if someone rugged my horse without my permission. infact it has happened to me and i was extremly annoyed. however i would tell the livery you expect them up once aa day to make sure there horse is alright.
 
Totally agree with you on this, in the middle of summer when the suns been out hot, and then it pours, the horse is bound to shiver, but then what do you do when say 1 hour later it's boiling again and some idiot has interfered with your horse putting a rug on?
 
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Yes, she did get a call but after she had already done the other girl's horse, surely you should ring first and ask?

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I personally would much rather someone took affirmative action if my horse was in need in any way - and then told me after the fact - rather than fannying around with trying to get hold of me first.

However, I am on livery with just one other - so our set up is slightly different. And whilst I agree that people shouldn't 'interfere' with how we look after our horses, surely the important thing is the horse, not necessarily how some one will react if we see a problem and try to help???

I, and the many others I was on livery with at the time, learnt a very sad and difficult lesson many years ago.

About 20 people at different times of the day had seen a horse lying down in the field (including the YO). A few people thought that it was a bit odd, given the time of day and how warm it was - but shrugged it off as nothing of any signifiance.

The horse was 'discovered' by it's owner later that day, still down and in great distress. It had severe burns to the whole side of it's body where it had been in the sun all day, and was severely dehydrated.

Everything that could be done was done by the vet to try and save it, but the damage was done - and the horse was destroyed the next day.

Lesson learnt, I'm afraid. And if I see a horse I think may be requiring attention - it gets it. I couldn't give a toss who it upsets.
 
Agree with AmyMay on this one, what matters is the horse. I am on a small yard with just one other and we both think the same way fortunately. We have an agreement that if the other is not contactable the person present will do what they think is best for the horse at the time. We both go to the yard at slightly different times so our horses all get checked 4 times a day and we both can rest easy that if there is a problem it will be dealt with. The problem comes I suppose on larger yards where there is bound to be differences of opinion on what is the right thing to do, speaking personally, I would be grateful if someone showed concern for my horse but would appreciate a phone call if at all possible.
 
Where I keep my two, we all look out for each others horses - I've often gone up to find someone (a friend) has checked mine and they haven't been happy, so they are in, with rugs and hay. In return I do it for them.

Or, if you don't know them well enough to do that, we text/call and ask what they want doing.

I'd be really shocked tbh to be shouted at by someone for looking out for their horses welfaare. I'd probably metion it to the YO, they may already have their concerns too.
 
although i am not a yard manager on my yard if i see another horse out, cold, or not well etc i alwasy etct the yard manager or the horses owner and say do you want me to put a rug on it/ egt it in etc and yes i think she should be coming up at least once a day. the horse is her resposability unless it is on part livery or full. If on DIY she needs to get her self sorted. be carefula about helping other peoples horse though. I have doen this too often now and been shouted at when i have thought i wlould expect them to do the same if it was my horse but now i just text and walk away. sad but it seems the culture we are living in now.
 
Id have been bloody annoyed if you had brought my horse in and rugged it.. If you had rung and said 'Hey X Y Z is shivering do you want me to rug them' and would of been delighted.. but to do it and then to ring was a bit wrong to be honest..

Lou x
 
My horse suffers badly from sweat rash if he overheats - and given you have already stated you don't know the girl, and presumably the horse, very well, I think she was quite within her rights to be furious, I would have been too, because there is a good health reason why my horse is not rugged in summer even if he is shivering.

You should have rung her first and offered to do this, not taken it upon yourself unless you are a YO/YM paid to do part or full livery.
 
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Yes, she did get a call but after she had already done the other girl's horse, surely you should ring first and ask?

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I personally would much rather someone took affirmative action if my horse was in need in any way - and then told me after the fact - rather than fannying around with trying to get hold of me first.

However, I am on livery with just one other - so our set up is slightly different. And whilst I agree that people shouldn't 'interfere' with how we look after our horses, surely the important thing is the horse, not necessarily how some one will react if we see a problem and try to help???

I, and the many others I was on livery with at the time, learnt a very sad and difficult lesson many years ago.

About 20 people at different times of the day had seen a horse lying down in the field (including the YO). A few people thought that it was a bit odd, given the time of day and how warm it was - but shrugged it off as nothing of any signifiance.

The horse was 'discovered' by it's owner later that day, still down and in great distress. It had severe burns to the whole side of it's body where it had been in the sun all day, and was severely dehydrated.

Everything that could be done was done by the vet to try and save it, but the damage was done - and the horse was destroyed the next day.

Lesson learnt, I'm afraid. And if I see a horse I think may be requiring attention - it gets it. I couldn't give a toss who it upsets.

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I take your point but I don't think you can compare, there is always a story like the very sad one you have just recounted.
A horse stood up but shivering in a sudden downpour of rain on an otherwise warm July day is not exactly the same, the horse is obviously perfectly alright, just a bit cold.

I would have gone and checked a horse lying spark out in an open field, if it had been down for any length of time, just to see if it was ok, as would most people. This is a sad story but in my opinion cannot be used as an example.

I still would not want someone else interfering with my horse without asking me first.
 
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My horse suffers badly from sweat rash if he overheats - and given you have already stated you don't know the girl, and presumably the horse, very well, I think she was quite within her rights to be furious, I would have been too, because there is a good health reason why my horse is not rugged in summer even if he is shivering.

You should have rung her first and offered to do this, not taken it upon yourself unless you are a YO/YM paid to do part or full livery.

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Common sense at last, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
 
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A horse stood up but shivering in a sudden downpour of rain on an otherwise warm July day is not exactly the same, the horse is obviously perfectly alright, just a bit cold

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Everyone is assuming that it was a sudden downpour of rain on an otherwise warm July day but all the OP said was the horse was out in the Thunder, for all any of us know it could have been the end of the day and she could have been the last person on the yard that evening and it could have been one of the awful nights of storms we have had recently, none of us really know except the OP... I still think whether you are pro or against what the OP did, its still no excuse for rudeness.
 
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A horse stood up but shivering in a sudden downpour of rain on an otherwise warm July day is not exactly the same, the horse is obviously perfectly alright, just a bit cold

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Everyone is assuming that it was a sudden downpour of rain on an otherwise warm July day but all the OP said was the horse was out in the Thunder, for all any of us know it could have been the end of the day and she could have been the last person on the yard that evening and it could have been one of the awful nights of storms we have had recently, none of us really know except the OP... I still think whether you are pro or against what the OP did, its still no excuse for rudeness.

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Yes...have to say I agree with you about the rudeness.
 
I agree the rudeness was out of order. In a perfect world we would know what fellow owners on our yards prefer to be done with their horses and trust eachother to know whats best. You did what you thought was right - she should have said that she would rather you left him in future if thats what she thinks is best (my horse gets very dross if over rugged).
In my opinion she was defensive because this has happened a lot - perhaps for good reason if you think she only visits occasionally.
 
im sorry i didnt explain myself very clearly,
me and the yard owner had been trying to get in touch with her for a week, it was raining most of the week and we were noticing the horse was shivering slightly and loosing weight rapidly. after 4 days trying to contact her i came up to the yard, it was thundering and tipping it down and didnt look like this was going to change so i tried to ring her again several times and no answer. her poor boy was stood away from the others shivering from head to foot. i contacted the yard owner who was away at the time and she agreed with me to put the rug on and contact later.
i left a message on the owners answer machine simply saying i put one of my rugs on him because he was cold.
it took her a week to phone me back or for any sign that she had come up to the yard.
she phoned back and layed into me, i understand her frustrations but it was necesary and the things she said were pretty disgusting. i hung up on her after trying to get a word in edgeways for about 20 minutes.
now because the horses are in a different field and loads of grass around and the weather seams to be improving slightly it is obviously of less of a concern except that she fails to visit her horse more than twice a week.
my vet saw the horse last week when she was checking one of mine and said the condition score was very low. and this is an improvement!!
how do i persuade her to come up to the yard more often and take a more active role in care for her horse which is a sensitive thoroughbred not a good old hardy cob???
 
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