Help with bits - i am so confused!!?

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Switchthehorse

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Hi, i really need some advice on bitting and hope someone can help??

I have a big girl (built like a tank) 17hh ish IDxWB. She is 6 and very green. We are doing a bit of jumping and she is learning to love it and tanks me round. Not super fast but really leaning on the hand when we do a course and i pull and NOTHING happens. So we have no steering and no brakes.

I ride her in a copper roller snaffle at the moment. I want to get another bit for jumping that gives me a tiny bit more control.

The problem is she super 'over' jumps, we are talking cat leaping at least 2ft over any fence (and i know i sound like i am exaggerating but i have pics to prove it :) and we are only doing 70-80cm fences so not as amazing as it sounds!) but quite often they are not the most graceful jumps and our rounds look pretty messy and terrible and quite often i get left behind so occassionally i probably sock her in the teeth a bit (terrible riding i know).

So my quandry is i need something to give me more control, but nothing that will dent her enthusiasm (its taken her a year to realise this is fun :)) but at the same time something that if she does do her awkward jumping i am not going to be causing her pain.

I have had the following suggestions: dutch gag (someone else looked aghast at that idea), waterford, pelham (tried once never again she hated it) and kimblewick (thought that was more for ponies??)

i want to try something sort of a grade up from what i am in rather than going all out as my concern is she will lean more and more and i will end up with the biggest strongest bit in the world!!

Any ideas very gratefully received sorry its so long!!
 
My horse really rushes fences and is very strong, so we go at lightening speed with no brakes or control either. I am like you, want something to help but not that will put him off, especially when I know I can yank by accident. First to stop the yanking I have just bought an rs-tor. For control, I am thinking of changing nose band rather than bit. Am going to try a figure eight nose band or a Kineton, not sure if the Kineton will be too harsh though!?!?
 
It sounds to me like you need to do more flatwork before jumping. The importance of good flatwork and schooling is often underestimated, but it is the basis for all disciplines.
Your mare needs to be respecting your seat and hands fully before embarking on the exciting stuff, where any disregard will be emphasised through her enthusiasm.

My suggestion would be to book some flatwork sessions with a good instructor who will get you doing loads of upward and downward transitions and bending so your horse listens and responds fully to you. Good luck!
 
Thanks for the advice re flatwork, I do have regular lessons and am fortunate enough to have some great trainers round my way. Completely agree with the idea that flatwork needs to be used to improve jumping. The problem i have is on the flat she is an angel, never leans, never tanks and if anything is a little behind the leg which is something we are working on. She is also very light in the hand. Its like having two different horses.

I have also tried people like Richard Maxwell and loads of ground work to get her to respect me more and build on our partnership over the last 3 years. The trouble is with jumping she gets so thrilled and excited its like she has tunnel vision and she just goes and me being c. 8 stone and her c. 690kg there is no competition, its like she doesnt even know i am there.

Hard to work on that on the flat when it doesnt happen :) I also do polework with her regularly and it doesnt happen then either!! And just to confirm everyone watching tells me she isnt actually going that fast, so we are not flat out, she just cant 'hear' me at all!!!
 
Sounds tricky then she obviously loves her jumping and also thinks she knows best!! How about a great showjump instructor - I am sure they will have come accross the 'rushing' problem many times before? She will likely settle in time - all the young are enthusiatic; just frustrating for you.

At 8 stone I expect she hardly notices your weight - eat some buns girl!!! Or I could give you my excess stone or 2 lol.
 
Sounds like a plan re the noseband thanks for that!

Re lessons it was my instructor who suggested the gag - but that was met by grimaces from some of the other liveries and i was concerned it would just encourage her to lean more!

Re tom thumb eeek that looks frightening, sorry i am a complete numpty i have only ever ridden in snaffles and pelhams before - is this really harsh? I dont want to ruin her!!?

Sorry and thanks!
 
a complete numpty riding in a pelham?
any bit can be harsh or kind depending on the rider.
pelhams are very severe bits as well, perhaps even on the same level as a tom thumb.
so as much as i understand your frustration, im going with the idea of not changing bit but improving your riding.
my 5yo tanked, bucked, head in the air, charged through jumps and has jumped the wings of a 60cm fence before. (my first 1.60 i was so proud, NOT!)
her bit was a D ring copper roller snaffle.
right now i changed it to copper eggbutt snaffle because my reins kept getting hooked to the bottom end of the dee so i'd always have to stop and unhook it which is why its now eggbutt, but nothing else has changed. shes still in a single jointed snaffle.
she no longer charges (well, she tries to...) and she jumps correctly. all due to flatwork my friend!

have you tried jumping on the lunge which may teach her about jumps more, or doing cavalettis or even just poles on the ground to get her used to them?
remember shes still a youngster who is green. maybe she is scared of them or doesnt understand jumping. maybe some groundwork might help: like leading her in hand at a walk over 30cm (any horse her height should be able to walk over a 30cm jump).

hope this helps! sorry i know its long.
 
Hi

Thanks for the responses so far, maybe i am being a little precious but no I am not a complete numpty.

I am not sure why i feel like i have to justify myself but I do! :) I am not a completely useless rider, ok i am no mary king but I am lucky enough to train with Richard Davidson, Richard Waygood etc (shameless name dropping) and have ridden for 30 odd years.

I agree you can always improve your riding and hence why i have these lessons regularly.

I think maybe you misunderstand my problems, she is confident, she LOVES jumping, we regularly do pole work and i also regularly free school her over fences and occassionally lunge her over fences. We also do raised poles.

She does the huge jumping through exuberance. I have endless pics of her ears pricked loving it, she is beautifully neat in front and very clean over the fences just gives them plenty of air - bearing in mind they are only 80cm.

One of my trainers said to me the other day the biggest problem i will have with her is sitting her jump as it is so huge.

I have been taking her slowly slowly over the last three years as she has matured into herself, always with support and lessons. I school regularly both on the flat and over fences.

The reason i dont want her leaning on me is mainly control over direction and she gets excited AFTER fences and sometimes broncs and yes i have had EVERYTHING checked several times and it has been put down to sheer exuberance or defiance if i have made her do something she doesnt want to she is quite an alpha mare!!

Two trainers have said i just need something in her mouth to help her respect me a little more and recognise i am there.

I know i didnt sell myself on my first post, and it probably sounded painful hearing about me 'socking her in the teeth' just to reassure you i am not a complete novice, I have ridden for years, yes i need improvement - dont we all - but i am not a numpty in terms of riding but about bits themselves!! and just about everyone who has ridden her over fences have had the same problem - sitting her ping and yet sitting back on landing so you dont go over her shoulder.

And breathe!! :)


How about a waterford??
 
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Have you tried a NS Verbindend? It's a type of snaffle, but it's brilliant for the tank-like leaning types as it refines your signals and helps to lift the shoulder. Not a cheap option, but not the most expensive either.
 
Pleasure - I know how it feels when a tank discovers the love of jumping :) In theory, waterford should work well as it discourages leaning, but I have found with mine, she just kind of falls/runs through it as it isn't rigid enough and the pressure isn't consistent enough.
 
I'm a vote for a Kineton I'm afraid :) wonderful, soft piece of tack in the right hands and means the horse is still soft mouthed and ridden in a snaffle :)

I have to disagree with whoever suggested the Tom thumb bit- from what you've described, an American gag (or variation of) like this would be far more than u need
 
Hi
I would try the Kimblewick, great for lack of stearing and brakes, cheap to buy of ebay so if it does'nt suit you will of only spent 3 - 4 quid. Worked a treat for my fjord who was like turning a tank after a jump and very strong in a snaffle.
 
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