Help with blood tests

M

minime

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 September 2010
Messages
486
Location
North Italy
Visit site
I have just received the email with Eagle's blood tests and I am not sure what it all means. I am waiting for my vet to let me know. Anyone got any ideas??

Lactate dehydrogenase is 1532 should be between 75-700
creatinine is 0,90 should be between 1,00-2,30
Albumin globulin is 7,70 should be between 4,70- 6,70
CPK is 562 should be between 50-250
WBC is 4,04 should be between 5,40- 14,30
lymphocytes is 0,65 should be between 1,50- 7,70

Thanks
 
To make it quick, basically his neck became soft and flopped over. I was advised to put him on a diet which I did and I was then told to put him in work which I did but after only one week he started to look depressed he had visual signs of muscle pain, a bad coat, very slow to eat and a bloated tummy. So I called the vet and asked for blood and poo tests.
I have been told today that he is suffering from Polimiosite and miosite.
I don't know how worried I should be!!!
 
Not an expert by any means, but high CPK and LDH are indicitive of tying up. I'm not sure about the words you have at the end, but the 'mio' part in them could be 'myo' ie relating to the muscles. Do mini's tend to suffer from EPSM?
 
yes it is myo in english, I have never heard of EPSM in mini's but it could be possible.
He had only been in work about a week. Lunging for 20-30 mins trot and a couple of 30 min walks. It is more than he has done in a long time but he is out with a herd and walks and trots about most of the day checking his girls and the boundary. The reason he came back in work is that he wasn't looking good before (floppy neck, bloated tummy and seemed depressed) so I was told to increase his food and put him in work.
 
The low white cell count may mean that he won't fight infections very easily, low neutrophils (the majority of the cells) for bacterial, and lymphocytes for viruses. It can be a blip - I'd advise getting him retested for his FBC in 8 weeks.

LDH is raised in cellular breakdown and muscle wastage

High albumin is almost always caused by dehydration - low albumin is more of a concern and can indicate liver disease.

CPK - again raised in cellular breakdown and muscle damage

One thing to bear in mind is these changes can all occur if the sample is taken/stored incorrectly.

Looking at the clinical data from the other thread - these results are in keeping with something funny going on with his muscles...

Edit - just read that you have just brought him back into work - the LDH and CPK will be raised if he is suddenly brought into work. Lunging straight off for 20-30 mins is quite hard work. I would fitten them by doing a could of weeks of roadwork in walk only.

Mysositis is just technobabble for inflammation of the muscles - which he would have if he has been brought suddenly back into work...
 
Last edited:
Inky_and_Sunny said:
Edit - just read that you have just brought him back into work - the LDH and CPK will be raised if he is suddenly brought into work. Lunging straight off for 20-30 mins is quite hard work. I would fitten them by doing a could of weeks of roadwork in walk only.

...
Click to expand...

I agree, he was out all day though and spent most of his time running around checking his mares so he didn't seem to mind being lunged for 20/30 mins. (I DID NOT PUSH HIM)
He started work as you advised me to in order to help his floppy neck and lack of muscle, I also started to introduce some food as you said but I think this and the work has made it much worse. He is now back on rest and just hay at all times. He is getting Carniton b12, Excell E and Mytrofil.
We will re do his blood test in 2 weeks.
God what a nightmare, first he came in to keep the sick mare company and now the mare is better and is in keeping him company. When will it all end????
 
minime said:
I have just received the email with Eagle's blood tests and I am not sure what it all means. I am waiting for my vet to let me know. Anyone got any ideas??

Lactate dehydrogenase is 1532 should be between 75-700
creatinine is 0,90 should be between 1,00-2,30
Albumin globulin is 7,70 should be between 4,70- 6,70
CPK is 562 should be between 50-250
WBC is 4,04 should be between 5,40- 14,30
lymphocytes is 0,65 should be between 1,50- 7,70

Thanks
Click to expand...

LDH is non specific muscle/liver enzyme in the horse. this can be raised with either muscle damage or liver damage
Low creatinine is unlikely to be relevant.
Not sure what you mean about albumin globulin and the result as these are two different proteins. Either was they can be raised in dehydration sure, but also globulins are raised in inflammatory conditions, is the total protein raised?
More use would be SAA and fibrinogen. SAA is an acute phase inflammatory protein (show inflammation occurring withing hours; fibrinogen is chronic marker, shows inflammation occurring days ago). Mostly globulin value is calculated by subtracting the Albumin value from the TP figure.
CPK is a sensitive and rapid response muscle enzyme (peak level 24 hours after injury normal again in 7d). However, while a result of 562 is high, it can shoot into the millions, so this level is consistent EITHER with high levels on the way down from its peak OR not much inflammation.

WBC is the total number of white blood cells, those fighting infection or producing inflammation. Low numbers can mean viral infection commonly or that they are going somewhere outside the blood stream to fight infection.
Low lymphocytes ( a specific type of WBC) again can be viral...

Myositis is certainly possible and the symptoms described could mean more unusual causes rather than tying up...e.g. EPM (not common in Mini's i'd agree). How long after the start of the problem is this test...the AST level will be a better use as well longer term inflammation will mean a high value here.
Are you in the N Italy? I'd have to check up on the more regional causes as well - the UK don't see EPM much and other infectious causes may be possible.

Next step, recheck CK/AST/LDH/SAA and fibrinogen in 5-7d, while using anti-inflammatories and possibly consider discussing a muscle biopsy to diagnose better.

Hope that helps a bit for now.
Imogen
 
Last edited:
Do vets still use fibrinogen as an inflammatory marker? That's crazy funny :) As a haematologist it is one of the most pointless (and expensive) haematology basic tests. It is only truely useful in cases of DIC and hereditary clotting deficiencies.

A better range of tests for inflammation are ESR, plasma viscosity, CRP and more recently discovered, THS.

Edit - oh and a raised platelet count is usually indicative of inflammation.
 
Inky_and_Sunny said:
Do vets still use fibrinogen as an inflammatory marker? That's crazy funny :) As a haematologist it is one of the most pointless (and expensive) haematology basic tests. It is only truely useful in cases of DIC and hereditary clotting deficiencies.

A better range of tests for inflammation are ESR, plasma viscosity, CRP and more recently discovered, THS.

Edit - oh and a raised platelet count is usually indicative of inflammation.
Click to expand...

Yeah and fibrinogen is still shiny and new!!! lol It's actually pretty useful in the horse but SAA is better. Not very expensive for us either.

The others are not commonly used as we don't really have the best reference ranges for the horse and will not be commonly in vet labs....cost is probably high as a consequence if available and I've not got any experience there. Don't get those results from the big labs (AHT/Liphook/Beaufort cottage) so I guess not available as yet commercially on the vet market.

We don't see raised platelets in horses that much and certainly not enough to go with generalised inflammation....:o

Thanks for the info though!!! :o
 
ImogenBurrows said:
Yeah and fibrinogen is still shiny and new!!! lol It's actually pretty useful in the horse but SAA is better. Not very expensive for us either.

The others are not commonly used as we don't really have the best reference ranges for the horse and will not be commonly in vet labs....cost is probably high as a consequence if available and I've not got any experience there. Don't get those results from the big labs (AHT/Liphook/Beaufort cottage) so I guess not available as yet commercially on the vet market.

We don't see raised platelets in horses that much and certainly not enough to go with generalised inflammation....:o

Thanks for the info though!!! :o
Click to expand...

Isn't it funny how things vary species to species?

I'm planning on doing my PHD project on reference ranges for common tests across multispecies with the plan of introducing testing into our lab. We currently just do synovial fluids. I cannot believe how much the vet labs charge for tests - a colleague had a THS done on a dog (not even including T4) and it cost £46, we can do it for £4.20!!!!

It could be a nice little sideline for the NHS to increase fund and improve the service for us hoomans...
 
Inky_and_Sunny said:
The low white cell count may mean that he won't fight infections very easily, low neutrophils (the majority of the cells) for bacterial, and lymphocytes for viruses. It can be a blip - I'd advise getting him retested for his FBC in 8 weeks.

LDH is raised in cellular breakdown and muscle wastage

High albumin is almost always caused by dehydration - low albumin is more of a concern and can indicate liver disease.

CPK - again raised in cellular breakdown and muscle damage

One thing to bear in mind is these changes can all occur if the sample is taken/stored incorrectly.

Looking at the clinical data from the other thread - these results are in keeping with something funny going on with his muscles...

Edit - just read that you have just brought him back into work - the LDH and CPK will be raised if he is suddenly brought into work. Lunging straight off for 20-30 mins is quite hard work. I would fitten them by doing a could of weeks of roadwork in walk only.

Mysositis is just technobabble for inflammation of the muscles - which he would have if he has been brought suddenly back into work...
Click to expand...
Thanks I will wait and see if the supplements make a difference and then get his blood works done again. I am so worried about my little man. He seems much more comfy now he has his rug on and his temperature has risen too but he seemed so sad in the field yesterday.
 
He seems to be doing a bit better thanks Meg2. This morning he was keen to go out and he went and said Hello to each of his mares. (which he hasn't done for a while) Fingers crossed it looks like the supplements are starting to work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top