Help with dangerous pawing by pony

[BackintheSaddle1983]

So new pony is rising 4 cob mare.

she has her mareish and youngster moments which I can deal with but yesterday she almost seriously hurt me.

She has a habit of pawing quite vigorously at the ground and anything nearby. She is fine to pick up all four feet for picking but she seems to be very averse to having her legs groomed. She dances around and snatches her leg away.

Yesterday I donned my helmet with the intention of doing some calm desensitising work on her front legs. All was going well and she was stood nicely whilst I was rubbing my hands down her fetlock (and I cannot be sure if it was malicious or not) she hastily pawed/struck out with her front leg and literally just brushed my cheekbone/eyesocket. My reaction was to jump up and shout at her as it really shook me up!

I was stood to her side which makes me think it was more of a strike, I don’t know, it happens so quickly and unexpectedly but it can’t happen again as its so dangerous. I can’t even imagine the damage she’d have done to my face if I’d have been a cm closer to her.

So any suggestions to stop the pawing and desensitise her legs? I’m willing to try anything to protect myself!

I’ll add I’ve only had her a couple of weeks and she seems to have settled onto the yard well. She is turned out with ad-lib hay in a small herd of mares. We have done lots of groundwork and I thought I’d set boundaries etc. otherwise she’s a very sweet and compliant pony!

Thank you in advance

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I would either put a stuffed marigold/grroming brush on a stick (held away from body in case she hits it towards you) - or a lunge line around the leg. Pressure and release with a treat, then extend the time touched over time.
I advocate big reactions for potentially dangerous things if the horse is generally being silly/impatient (aka: not genuinely scared/anxious) but if the OTT jump shout reaction has not immediately worked, then I wouldn't continue that as you may then create anxiety where she was just being a fidget and a PITA before.

 

[meleeka]

You really need to keep your head out of harms way! I’m trying to work out how she managed to get your cheek of you were standing next to her?

 

[Gloi]

If you had both hands on her fetlock when her leg was on the ground you had put yourself in a dangerous position, as you now realise. A youngster pawing isn't an unusual thing and you need to learn to position yourself so you aren't in harms way.
If she's very touchy with her legs start with a glove on a stick. Being a cob has she scabs in her feather making her legs sore. If so you need to get on top of that.

Take care and always think about where you position yourself. Hopefully as she gets handled more she'll quieten down. Until then try giving her a haynet to occupy her while grooming.

 

[Kaylum]

Sounds like mites. Feathered horses can get them. Ask your vet to look as legs can become inflamed and sore very quickly. Cobs are often very high maintenence.

 

[Bobthecob15]

I was just about to suggest mites/scabs on her legs making her sore and sensitive

 

[BackintheSaddle1983]

So when I pick out her feet, she’ll
Stand lovely and I’ve had a good rummage in all her feathers, front and back, and can’t see any scabs. She’s not itchy or scratching them so not worried about mites at the point.

she has a very interesting trim of her feathers. It looks like somebody has cut around near the hoof with scissors so they don’t touch the floor, very badly. She came from a dealer so can’t ask about the legs.

I honestly can’t tell you what happened as it happened so quick. I was stood at her right shoulder, reaching down with my right hand. I was bent over at the waist rather than crouched. I can only imagine she pulled away or moved before pawing so I was in a less than ideal position.

I am very safety conscious and had ponies for 30 years, including youngsters. I’ve just never come across this issue.

She always has a hay net whilst I groom or the pawing is worse.

 

[Bobthecob15]

So when I pick out her feet, she’ll
Stand lovely and I’ve had a good rummage in all her feathers, front and back, and can’t see any scabs. She’s not itchy or scratching them so not worried about mites at the point.

she has a very interesting trim of her feathers. It looks like somebody has cut around near the hoof with scissors so they don’t touch the floor, very badly. She came from a dealer so can’t ask about the legs.

I honestly can’t tell you what happened as it happened so quick. I was stood at her right shoulder, reaching down with my right hand. I was bent over at the waist rather than crouched. I can only imagine she pulled away or moved before pawing so I was in a less than ideal position.

I am very safety conscious and had ponies for 30 years, including youngsters. I’ve just never come across this issue.

She always has a hay net whilst I groom or the pawing is worse.

Is there a possibility she’s not been well fed in the past and is therefore protecting her hay? We have a mare on the yard who strikes out at people at times and they think it is food aggression, if anyone gets too close to her net etc she would go nuts and lunges or strikes out. Does she paw if no food?

Do you know what her routine was before you had her? If she was excessively stabled and the change in routine etc it could be ulcers? Does she show any other signs? The mare above had ulcers, the stable behaviour along with other issues such as bucking under saddle etc led them to scope and it turned out she had ulcers too x

 

[ester]

Often this time of year big feathers do get that cut kind of look from bog burn/hair breaks cos of the mud.

 

[Maxidoodle]

So when I pick out her feet, she’ll
Stand lovely and I’ve had a good rummage in all her feathers, front and back, and can’t see any scabs. She’s not itchy or scratching them so not worried about mites at the point.

she has a very interesting trim of her feathers. It looks like somebody has cut around near the hoof with scissors so they don’t touch the floor, very badly. She came from a dealer so can’t ask about the legs.

I honestly can’t tell you what happened as it happened so quick. I was stood at her right shoulder, reaching down with my right hand. I was bent over at the waist rather than crouched. I can only imagine she pulled away or moved before pawing so I was in a less than ideal position.

I am very safety conscious and had ponies for 30 years, including youngsters. I’ve just never come across this issue.

She always has a hay net whilst I groom or the pawing is worse.

That sounds more like bog burnt feather, they snap off due to being in very wet muddy conditions, they’ll grow back. Does it looks like this stock image? Her pawing sounds like out of frustration, my mare did similar when I got her (she had been with travellers all her life), she would get frustrated when tied up and impatient, she’d also paw and wave a leg around if I asked her to stand for example when we stopped to speak to someone while riding out (also reversing into a ditch once too as she didn’t want to stand still ), it’s a lack of training, I spend a lot of time teaching her to stand still and I do give her a haynet when tied up and she’s fine. In the meantime, keep your head well away from hooves, if she is being tricky to touch anywhere on her legs, absolutely stuff a glove with someone, duct tape it to a pole and work it up and down her legs and reward her with praise and wither scratches.

 

[dorsetladette]

I have a leg waver. He spends most of his time showing you his knees. One foot is nearly always on the bottom rail of the fence when he is talking to you at the fence. As he had quite a bad start and was withdrawn when he arrived we loved the fact his little character was coming out.

He's two! (and a tw#t!) so we do make some allowances, we probably have been a little softer with him than we have other youngsters (we've had lots) because of his start, but he is expected to stand nicely when we are doing things with him. To manage his behavior by correcting it immediately, smack on the shoulder, step back a few steps, a wiggle of the lead rein. I'm now very firm with him if the leg gets waved in my direction.

When you pick her feet up run your hand over the inside of her knee and down the leg before asking for her to lift her foot.

One thing to remember - babies have a very short attention span so keep the sessions short and sweet and finish on a good note even if the good note isn't what you planned to achieve in that session. And until your comfortable please wear your hat when handling her legs.

 

[southerncomfort]

Often this time of year big feathers do get that cut kind of look from bog burn/hair breaks cos of the mud.

Yes this has happened to both my Fell and my mini Shetland this year.

 

[Hallo2012]

lets not over react....youngsters paw, i doubt it was a malicious strike as if it was you would be nursing that bust eye socket!

i have stallions, so by nature front leg wavy and impatient little devils....if they paw i push them hard in the shoulder thus pushing them off balance so they have to stand square to rebalance. do it every time and they learn pawing=nearly falling over and pack it in!

wear a hat and keep sessions short and sweet, dont bore her to death.

 

[southerncomfort]

lets not over react....youngsters paw, i doubt it was a malicious strike as if it was you would be nursing that bust eye socket!

i have stallions, so by nature front leg wavy and impatient little devils....if they paw i push them hard in the shoulder thus pushing them off balance so they have to stand square to rebalance. do it every time and they learn pawing=nearly falling over and pack it in!

wear a hat and keep sessions short and sweet, dont bore her to death.

Agree.

Mine can wave a leg and paw the ground when he's bored and impatient.

I usually walk away and stand where he can't see me until he stops, which is usually straight away. Then I'll go back and carry on what I was doing.

He doesn't do it again because not only did it not gain him anything but he also temporarily lost his audience!

 

[BackintheSaddle1983]

Thank you all. I always wear my helmet around any horses legs. Even if they are well known as ‘safe’.

She was a little thin when she arrived but she’s not food aggressive at all, with hay or feed.

We only do very short 5 minute sessions on anything we do, l so it’s not boredom.

I’ll keep going with what I’m doing and I’ll use a brush on a stick for the time being. It’s good to know that pawing is quite normal in youngsters.

 

[Fransurrey]

If it's any help, my cob occasionally snatched his leg and struck forwards as a youngster in the first couple of months I had him. He just didn't understand what I was up to and it resolved by itself.

 

[Asha]

Our little filly has been an interesting case... she hated you touching her front legs, backs no problem. She would strike out, but it was fear . Now shes never been treated roughly, but she just takes a while with new things. So the best position we found was standing slightly in front of her shoulder, run your hands down the leg until her knee, then ask her for her leg and pull it slightly forward. That way its more difficult to strike out, as her leg is already there, then gently bend the fetlock up so you can pick the hooves out safely.

 

[Skib]

I was never a seasoned, experienced rider like most of you here but I did help out on a yard. There was a cob that wouldnt stand still to lift his feet and my usual remedy is to make horses work if they dont do as I ask.
I wear a helmet and always put on a head collar with lead rope to indicate that the horse is now working for me.
If he didnt lift a foot, I led him in a small circle and then backed up a couple of paces. Then asked again for the foot.

run your hands down the leg until her knee

It is funny you should say that, as it is what I do and when tacking up too. Thinking of it from a human point of view, one doesnt like to be suddenly and unexpectedly touched so I make sure the horses know where my hand is.
Current mare is very good about lifting each foot in turn. Trouble is that the staff are quicker than I am, so she puts the foot down again before I have manged to pick it out properly. It was pointless to ask for the same foot again as she already had the next foot lifted. I have solved this by going round all her feet twice.

 

[Burnerbee]

I was watching the Clever Cowgirl on YT (no trying to flog us stuff, no narcissistic tendencies - just trying to get some extra cash to rescue and rehab horses). In this particular video she showed archive footage of how it had taken weeks before she could touch a particular horse (Goose) and many more before she could really handle him.

Obviously your horse isn’t in that bracket but horses (all flight / fight animals) take a loooong time - it doesn’t happen overnight. In a word, patience.

 

[PurBee]

To add to the great suggestions already given, i’d be interested to know what she’s like with the farrier/trimmer when that happens next. Obviously youve only had her for 2 weeks and dont know details of handling responses or what handling she’s really been exposed to previously. It sounds like it’s a behavioural trait she’s learnt for whatever reason.

Mine became leg snatchy after a period away, with hoof/leg handling, after previously being fine before going away. They would pull their leg from me forward, looking like a strike-out, when they were just using the space available to free their leg from me. I always made sure i was sideways on, and it sounds like she moved back to almost catch your face, if you started by her side.
Different treatment elicits different responses. For picking-out feet they could see the pick and were compliant, but anything other than that and they got snatchy and impatient. It took them a while to re-learn leg/foot handling with me isnt going to be a stress-fest!

Other than previous behaviour trait, as she’s just moved yards, and seems to be settling fine, maybe the move is still creating tension under the surface of our ability to observe, and she’s showing agitation in the only way she knows how. They can be stoic with putting up with us humans demands of them, and a change of scene/herd/environment for an animal innately wired to have same herd/environment its whole life, despite training, is bound to create some discomfort initially. Its only been 2 weeks and she’s still settling in. Maybe a daily dose of aloe vera is worth adding to a basic bowl feed for 2 weeks to help settle stomach/gut? That’ll help with ulcery potential too.

I’d be patient and go slow. Being young she’s still learning the domestic horse world. She’ll soon learn your ways the longer she’s with you.
My 10yr old mare, same home all her life previously, took months to really truly settle. Initially I thought she was fairly settled, considering all the circumstances, but hindsight taught me, for her lovely personality to shine through, actually took many months.

 

[maya2008]

I’m struggling to imagine this. Stand by shoulder, right next to it because if they do strike out you want the least power behind it. Face the tail. Run the hand next to the horse down the back of the leg. They can flip up the hoof because they think you want to pick it up, or strike out forwards away from you. How would they get your head? If they flick up the hoof, you have your hand on the leg so can grab it to control the movement if needed.

Anyway…
- Go slowly. I would use a brush first, and gradually brush further and further down the leg. You are aiming not to create a reaction. If they do wave a leg around, you wait calmly until they stop then repeat until you get no reaction.
- If worried, and they aren’t the type that hates feeling trapped (and would therefore explode), you can get someone to pick up and hold the opposite leg while you brush.

 

[BackintheSaddle1983]

thank you all. She had a day off in the field yesterday so I’ll see how she goes this afternoon and will update.

 

[GypsGal1718]

Could be malanders/salanders or mites, my rescue goblet would be very sensitive to leg touch because she had mites when we first got her, have you noticed her stamping in the field?

 

[BackintheSaddle1983]

No she’s not been stamping or itching at all.
She was much better today. Ironically, when I came to pick out her feet she stood stock still and wouldn’t lift them at all! We got there and I also ran my hands all over her front legs without a reaction. She also did a couple of other things we’ve been working on very well, one being walking up to and standing nicely by the mounting block, so I had a little sit on her which was nice.

 

[dorsetladette]

No she’s not been stamping or itching at all.
She was much better today. Ironically, when I came to pick out her feet she stood stock still and wouldn’t lift them at all! We got there and I also ran my hands all over her front legs without a reaction. She also did a couple of other things we’ve been working on very well, one being walking up to and standing nicely by the mounting block, so I had a little sit on her which was nice.

Some times it just takes a few 'no not like that' for it to click with babies. Sounds like you little lady had a lightbulb moment yesterday.

Be careful not to push on to quickly when she does 'get it' its OK for her to have an 'easy' session or two with a little less pressure so spending time with you is also enjoyable and fun.

 

[BackintheSaddle1983]

She’d had the day before completely off in the field so had done nothing at all. I’m assuming it was that down time that gave her the lightbulb moment.
On days we do something it’s only 5 minutes and usually in between a grooming session. I don’t push her at all.
Yesterday was a simple groom, have a rub around her legs, pop on and girth up her saddle, then walked up to the mounting block which she did perfectly and stood stock still. Just seemed the right moment to get on for the first time.
I sat for a few minutes and she did some stretches either side for a treat and that was that. She has today off in the field and tomorrow and Friday will be pamper days.

I am all for slow and steady